Posted by Bippity10:

I disagree with all that say Curry is a role player and should stay that way until he develops. If you give up two possible lottery picks for a guy you do not turn him into a role player. Obviously by making that trade you are saying he is your future. So patience is fine but at the same time if you have a plan you will begin to develop a team around the guy. Get players that compliment his play. Create an offensive system that takes advantage of his skills(screw the guys that aren't going to be here). Why build an offense around the older guys? Because you are trying to save your job and their immediate success helps you save your job at the expense of force feedding your so called franchise player.

The truth is this, when Curry was acquired he was acquired because he was a big name with a high "upside" but did not necesssarily fit into a long-term plan because we appear not to have one.We acquired Curry and made a trade as a franchise player. Then to save jobs we appeased our vets and began leaning towards building something that takes advantage of their skills. It's weird I tell you, weird.

It seems to me like we acquired Curry hoping he will hang in there and get better on his own, in the meantime build around Marbs so that we can maybe make the playoffs. Is that a plan?

Where we disagree is you think that having the offense with the vets in controll is hurting Curry's development. While I feel it would help his development. Having the vets in control drawing the pressure from defenses is taking advantage of his skills. He is not a skilled post up player right now. That is a weakness right now. He is not cappable of being the guy that the defenses focus on and he uses that to open up other players. He isn't there yet, and has a long way to go. Just like his rebounding and shotblocking. By forcing Curry into a role he isn't ready to take. Would be compounding the mistake of trading for him, giving up all we did. As if he was a proven franchise player.

Also have to look at Curry's personality. He is a quiet person, who keeps to himself. When Brown called him the franchise player he even got a little shook up about it. Thinking about all that pressure. He seems like a guy that needs his confidence built up in order to improve his game. Him playing in a position of weakness. Hoping he learns from it might not be the best way for him to learn and grow. Let Curry gain his confidence by keeping him in a position of strength. Which is getting the ball of dump offs from penitration, put backs, tip ins, broken plays, alley oops, offensive rebounds. When the guards are in controll, and take the pressure from the defense. Teams have to fear the guards and Eddie Curry. When Eddie Curry is in controll and has to take the pressure of the defense. Teams don't have to fear the guards. As Curry isn't a good passer out of the post, is foul prone & turnover prone. Plus he doesn't have a money go to post move. You think the other 4 guys are going to want to put maximum effort on defense when the offense comes down to that?? I say keep the pressure on Marbury right now. While Curry works his butt off on the things he needs to develop into our franchise player. Where both we and he feels confident enough to be comfortable in that role.

Putting all that pressure on him before he is ready could be suicide for him. It has ruined many careers in the past.

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Posted by Bippity10:

I disagree with all that say Curry is a role player and should stay that way until he develops. If you give up two possible lottery picks for a guy you do not turn him into a role player. Obviously by making that trade you are saying he is your future. So patience is fine but at the same time if you have a plan you will begin to develop a team around the guy. Get players that compliment his play. Create an offensive system that takes advantage of his skills(screw the guys that aren't going to be here). Why build an offense around the older guys? Because you are trying to save your job and their immediate success helps you save your job at the expense of force feedding your so called franchise player.

The truth is this, when Curry was acquired he was acquired because he was a big name with a high "upside" but did not necesssarily fit into a long-term plan because we appear not to have one.We acquired Curry and made a trade as a franchise player. Then to save jobs we appeased our vets and began leaning towards building something that takes advantage of their skills. It's weird I tell you, weird.

It seems to me like we acquired Curry hoping he will hang in there and get better on his own, in the meantime build around Marbs so that we can maybe make the playoffs. Is that a plan?

Where we disagree is you think that having the offense with the vets in controll is hurting Curry's development. While I feel it would help his development. Having the vets in control drawing the pressure from defenses is taking advantage of his skills. He is not a skilled post up player right now. That is a weakness right now. He is not cappable of being the guy that the defenses focus on and he uses that to open up other players. He isn't there yet, and has a long way to go. Just like his rebounding and shotblocking. By forcing Curry into a role he isn't ready to take. Would be compounding the mistake of trading for him, giving up all we did. As if he was a proven franchise player.

Also have to look at Curry's personality. He is a quiet person, who keeps to himself. When Brown called him the franchise player he even got a little shook up about it. Thinking about all that pressure. He seems like a guy that needs his confidence built up in order to improve his game. Him playing in a position of weakness. Hoping he learns from it might not be the best way for him to learn and grow. Let Curry gain his confidence by keeping him in a position of strength. Which is getting the ball of dump offs from penitration, put backs, tip ins, broken plays, alley oops, offensive rebounds. When the guards are in controll, and take the pressure from the defense. Teams have to fear the guards and Eddie Curry. When Eddie Curry is in controll and has to take the pressure of the defense. Teams don't have to fear the guards. As Curry isn't a good passer out of the post, is foul prone & turnover prone. Plus he doesn't have a money go to post move. You think the other 4 guys are going to want to put maximum effort on defense when the offense comes down to that?? I say keep the pressure on Marbury right now. While Curry works his butt off on the things he needs to develop into our franchise player. Where both we and he feels confident enough to be comfortable in that role.

Putting all that pressure on him before he is ready could be suicide for him. It has ruined many careers in the past.

So do you think it's wise to make a trade for a franchise player that can't handle the pressure? I'm not saying it is or it isn't, I'm just asking the question.

That being said I would agree with your point 100% in a normal situation. In a situation where you have veteran leaders that can nurture and help a young curry develop than yes you are correct. But in a situation where vets make excuses and say it's okay to quit when you don't like the coach, or your role is questionable than it may be wise to start taking the power away from these guys. At some point management has to stop selling a bill of goods and telling us how great things are going to be and actually show us progress. It's not enough to have young guys on the roster. We must form a team that helps their development not one where chaos reigns. And yes chaos has been here since long before LB got here.

What has made Eddie Curry worthy of being called a franchise player?? Because Isiah gave up the value of a true franchise player in order to get him doesn't make him a franchise player. Isiah gave up more to get Marbury than he did to get Curry. So by that logic Marbury should be the one we build around and Curry should be his side kick. Not that I think we should be building around Marbury at this point.

Bip, you are one of the biggest advocates of not handing players franchise player status without them earning it. I don't see how that view should change now that were talking about Eddie Curry instead of Marbury or Franchise. Marbury could at least get you 8assist as well. Can Curry get you 8rebs. What is Curry even good at other than offense which is limited to drawing fouls, getting put backs, dunks, tip ins, & offensive rebs. I would like to see him average at least 8rebs & 1.5blks a game before I even consider him being anything close to a franchise player.

Neither Marbury or Curry are franchise players. Both of them are core players though. They have there skills and there weaknesses. Neither can carry a team on there back like a true franchise player could. Only thing is Marbury sells tickets and jerseys, Curry has potential. Curry is a 3rd option in a great team with the potential to be a 2nd option. Curry is someone a true franchise player like Lebron could really use.

We talk about building around our strengths. One of our biggest strengths is the difficulty teams have handling Curry in a one on one situation. It would make sense to build a team that takes advantage of that by spreading the floor with shooters and ball movers. We didn't do that.

Another of our strengths is having two guards that like to penetrate and score and can dish if need be. They are not ball movers but can create havoc. Seeing that as the case you would think we'd build a line-up that is built around players that don't need the ball to be successful. Instead we have only guys that need the ball to be successful. And finallya fter two years of drastic overspending and losing Isiah is figuring this out.

Now this line-up can be successful. It has the overall talent to be one of the better teams in the East. But in order to do this, some guys have to accept fewer minutes, sporadic minutes, changing roles and sometimes being called on to play defense. If these guys make this decision things can get better hear(not great but better) over night. The question remains, after giving them a year of being able to quit and not play hard under those circumstances will they change now? If they don't change will our management continue to make excuses for them and fire the coach all the while perpetuating the mindset that has been here for 5 years.

Isiah is figuring it out just like all the "haters" have said. For this team to be good and take it to the next level, they need role players, they need an attitude change, they need to stop wasting time setting us back by spending money on primadonnas that have never won, and they need to trim the fat. We all know this. Some of us figured it out 3 or 4 years ago. NewYork I agree with most of what you say. But you have to understand there is a large difference between what I think should happen and what actually is occuring. Now that LB is gone we are starting again, finding someone else to build around for the 6th time in 6 years. At some point we have to stick to a plan right or wrong.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by 4949:

Posted by Andrew:

I hope he is. Did anyone else hear the annoucers say Frye was at 3-4% body fat? There is no way that is true.

It's true. there's about 3 to 4% of body fat in his facial cheeks.

Not that it really matters but I always thought they should give bf% measurements at the pre-draft camp. It's a better indication of what shape the player is in than any of the dozens of measurements they do take.
Mine's 5.9%. Anything below 5 is dangerously low.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-12-2006 6:58 PM]

5.9?? jesus bonn, have a cheesburger!

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Vmart:

Curry needs to develop his skill level. I wish people would stop calling him the next Shaq and what not. Because Shaq is one of the least skilled player that I have ever see. Curry should be aiming to be like Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Jabbar, Moses not Shaq because one he isn't as big as him and two to duplicate Shaq means never really getting better.

If curry wants to be great then he really needs to develop a skill set that will make him a 20-10 player on a consistent basis.

You would be pissed if Curry turned out to be Shaq?

Never, but he isn't as big as Shaq. Which means he better devlope some skills.

Posted by Marv:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by 4949:

Posted by Andrew:

I hope he is. Did anyone else hear the annoucers say Frye was at 3-4% body fat? There is no way that is true.

It's true. there's about 3 to 4% of body fat in his facial cheeks.

Not that it really matters but I always thought they should give bf% measurements at the pre-draft camp. It's a better indication of what shape the player is in than any of the dozens of measurements they do take.
Mine's 5.9%. Anything below 5 is dangerously low.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 07-12-2006 6:58 PM]

5.9?? jesus bonn, have a cheesburger!

I'm trying to bulk up. I've actually gained 13 pounds in 6 weeks and I can lift more than I used to be able to.