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nate,lee and frye spill the beans about last year (article)
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djsunyc
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7/6/2006  11:23 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by djsunyc:

when will they stop with all this bravado and he said/she said crap and concentrate on what's best for the team and the franchise? that's what i'm upset about.
LOL!!! ROFL!!!!



Oh THATS what you're upset about?

LOL!!! This is classic. I might just make this my signature. One of Brown biggest supporters during the season, is upset about he said/she said crap and not concentrating on what's best for the team??? LOL!!!!! ROFL!!!!!! When exactly did this start upsetting you? LOL!

dude, the coach is supposed to criticize. that's what coaches do. but when the players start talking, it breaks protocol.
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fishmike
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7/6/2006  11:25 AM
funny.. a couple of people quoted me and went right into Larry Brown tirades. I never mentoned Brown in my post, and havent mentioned him for some time. What I was talking about is excuses, something very familiar to the Knicks organization. Last year's rooke class has been here one year and even they have a built in excuse now because of Larry. Hopefully Isiah and Mark give them gold stars for good plays and they have healthy snacks before nap time. Maybe next year Nate will flex his mucles and get beat by his man downcourt when we are only down 8 instead of 18.

MrEarl.. I have seen the Suns play. Funny how you think we should be more like them. I agree 100%. Lets go get some veterans that:
Can run a 5 man offense : Nash
defend multiple positions : Marion, Bell, Diaw, Kurt
dominate the glass : Marion

(here's where you go into your little act about how our "youngins" do all that stuff already, or will do it, or something like that)

We aint the Suns. Get over it. They have 3 guys, maybe 4 that are better than anyone on our roster right now. Ouch. Now wonder they are having fun :)
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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7/6/2006  11:27 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Killa4luv:
Posted by djsunyc:

when will they stop with all this bravado and he said/she said crap and concentrate on what's best for the team and the franchise? that's what i'm upset about.
LOL!!! ROFL!!!!



Oh THATS what you're upset about?

LOL!!! This is classic. I might just make this my signature. One of Brown biggest supporters during the season, is upset about he said/she said crap and not concentrating on what's best for the team??? LOL!!!!! ROFL!!!!!! When exactly did this start upsetting you? LOL!

dude, the coach is supposed to criticize. that's what coaches do. but when the players start talking, it breaks protocol.

I think Bip10 had stated this earlier in the season. Coaches do critisize and may call out a player in the press - whether right or wrong - to see how that player responds (and I would have to guess that this is after a lot of critism behind the scenes too). Does the player sulk? Try to prove the coach wrong by playing his butt off and "showing him up"? Fold and quit? Change for the better?
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newyorknewyork
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7/6/2006  11:30 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:

This franchise has been nothing but excuse after excuse for everyone thats played here the last 5 years. Since when is having fun a key requisite? Learn to win in the league first, then have some fun playing the game. The laid back, your a star, go have a good time approach produces guys like Steve Francis. Lots of flash and no substance, unless you count something other than winning basketball games substance.

I've had guys like that come on my baseball team. They just want to fart around and have a good time. There's a league for that, its call slow pitch softball. If your not going to show up in shape and ready and able to contribute go play in a coed pickup game. To me nothing is more "fun" than working hard and seeing that work translate on the field. Winning is fun

Whats the excuse going to be this year? Too many players? Lame duck coach? Fat guys getting injured and messing up the line ups?

I'm GLAD Channing showed up beefed to 260. Hopefully the rookies and sophmores and be big contributors. Wanna know what will really make me excited this year? If Curry shows up weighing 260-270 instead of the 300 he played at last year.

This has almost nothing to do with effort. This is about leadership. Brown demonstrated absolutely zero last year. From the jump, he created an antagonistic atmosphere - i.e. benched Jamal on opening night without telling him after starting him all through pre-season, started calling out players left and right, didn't play Frye on opening night. This is a young team, encouragement, leadership, defining roles, setting a rotation are all imperative. Brown did a horrible job as a coach and then demanded panic moves after his hated Marbury went down (aka the only player who could orchestrate wins in spite of Brown) for at the very least Jalen Rose, and probably had some involvement in the Francis deal...

Brown did a horrible job and he was clearly angling for roster control and quite probably Isiah's job as well. He had to think he had the upper hand with the longer contract and superior reputation.

Nate Robinson's behavior and play has NOTHING, repeat nothingwhatsoever to do with a lack of effort. That guy played 100% effort every single minute he was on the floor. And because he couldn't rip his effort, he ripped his exuberance. Brown's performance here (on the job and his daily soap opera moaning in front of media) was a sick joke. Yet people still rush to his defense, citing past performance. Except his last three jobs have all been embarassments (fired from Detroit for interviewing with another organization during playoffs, embarassed at Olympics, embarassed all of New York).

Next season doesn't have to be about wins and losses, I just want to believe this team can build something out of all this talent again. I believe that will come back and that the wins will come out of that. If you think effort is the problem - why disparage Nate Robinson? why bench David Lee? why not make examples of them as guys who play all out every night? Are you seriously going to tell me that Ariza was not in shape and didn't give effort? Brown is a joke.


Did Frye really show up 260?? If so thats the most important comment in this 4 page thread. Lets hope it translates into more rebs. And stronger low post moves to go with his nice jumper.
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misterearl
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7/6/2006  11:32 AM
fish.mike - it was inteneded as a referendum to compare the Knicks to the Suns.

Like Nate said, "why steal my joy?"

joec - you never answered my polite question. what is your "objective appraisal" of what the players said to the media?

Not their performance or your fantasy lineups.

Remember -"undistorted by emotion or personal bias"

Thank You
once a knick always a knick
oohah
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7/6/2006  11:32 AM
Did Frye really show up 260?? If so thats the most important comment in this 4 page thread. Lets hope it translates into more rebs. And stronger low post moves to go with his nice jumper.

It worries me. If Frye showed up 260 pounds in this short period of time, then he is either hanging out with Barry Bonds' trainer or he has been hanging out with Jerome James' trainer--the Ho-Hos diet!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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7/6/2006  11:33 AM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Bippity10:

nixluva: Huh?

Why is it that everything has to be about LB? Move on. This is about the Knicks and what we need to do to be successful. We won 23 games last year. From all opinions the reason we won 23 games is because of LB. So now LB is gone. Now things are back to normal. Now they can just concentrate on playing basketball. If that's the case, that's what I want to see. LB is gone now, that should mean there is no more whining in the media, or complaining about roles right? That's my expectation. Not asking anyone to prove anything to me. That should be the norm because LB is gone.

The reason players have something to prove is because independent of Larry, guys like Stevie and Steph and Eddie and JJ and Mo and jamal have been question marks long before they got here. They've always made excuses for their inability to win games. Okay the final obstacle of LB has been removed so as a fan I am to expect that our team will now start winning.


Yeah but those guys aren't the WHOLE team. We had a LOT of young players with very little experience and now we have even more. So it was up to LB to be the one to make things easier for them to be successful. Instead he made it harder and they didn't get everything out of last year that they should. I'm saying that last year wasn't all about win totals. It was also about development and at least showing a steady progression as the year went along. It was about establishing a culture of how this team plays. This way they could actually BUILD upon a good foundation. BUT LB NEVER DID establish anything!!!! SO i'm not going to judge this team NOW solely on the number of wins, but how they play.

We have a much better CHANCE to win games without all the LB CRAP. And for those who keep mentioning how LB did things in the past PLEASE STOP! He NEVER did the things he did last year ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Sure he's been guilty of doing all of those things at some point during every stop, but he took it to NEW LEVELS last year. He did things that just defied logic and even his best friends admit they don't know what he was thinking. SO lets cut the crap about his way working. Last year WAS NOT LARRY'S WAY. That was some other mess he was on.


So I am to assume that we are guaranteed a good season now that LB is gone.

Those guys are 6 guys. All 6 of them are going to be a major part of our 9 or 10 man rotation so it does make a huge difference. Top it all off with the fact that they are the veteran leaders and supposed to be showing our young guys the way. I am sick of hearing excuses for our players. LB is gone now. There are no more excuses. Rookie and veteran alike. I am assuming now that LB is gone they will all come into camp happy, healthy and in the best shape of their careers. I am assuming they will all understand their roles, accept their minutes and will respect Isiah. That's what I expect. I am choosing to raise the standards for our players instead of accepting excuses. LB was the reason for our failure so now eveyrthing should be good.No more excuses.
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martin
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7/6/2006  11:33 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:

This franchise has been nothing but excuse after excuse for everyone thats played here the last 5 years. Since when is having fun a key requisite? Learn to win in the league first, then have some fun playing the game. The laid back, your a star, go have a good time approach produces guys like Steve Francis. Lots of flash and no substance, unless you count something other than winning basketball games substance.

I've had guys like that come on my baseball team. They just want to fart around and have a good time. There's a league for that, its call slow pitch softball. If your not going to show up in shape and ready and able to contribute go play in a coed pickup game. To me nothing is more "fun" than working hard and seeing that work translate on the field. Winning is fun

Whats the excuse going to be this year? Too many players? Lame duck coach? Fat guys getting injured and messing up the line ups?

I'm GLAD Channing showed up beefed to 260. Hopefully the rookies and sophmores and be big contributors. Wanna know what will really make me excited this year? If Curry shows up weighing 260-270 instead of the 300 he played at last year.

This has almost nothing to do with effort. This is about leadership. Brown demonstrated absolutely zero last year. From the jump, he created an antagonistic atmosphere - i.e. benched Jamal on opening night without telling him after starting him all through pre-season, started calling out players left and right, didn't play Frye on opening night. This is a young team, encouragement, leadership, defining roles, setting a rotation are all imperative. Brown did a horrible job as a coach and then demanded panic moves after his hated Marbury went down (aka the only player who could orchestrate wins in spite of Brown) for at the very least Jalen Rose, and probably had some involvement in the Francis deal...

Brown did a horrible job and he was clearly angling for roster control and quite probably Isiah's job as well. He had to think he had the upper hand with the longer contract and superior reputation.

Nate Robinson's behavior and play has NOTHING, repeat nothingwhatsoever to do with a lack of effort. That guy played 100% effort every single minute he was on the floor. And because he couldn't rip his effort, he ripped his exuberance. Brown's performance here (on the job and his daily soap opera moaning in front of media) was a sick joke. Yet people still rush to his defense, citing past performance. Except his last three jobs have all been embarassments (fired from Detroit for interviewing with another organization during playoffs, embarassed at Olympics, embarassed all of New York).

Next season doesn't have to be about wins and losses, I just want to believe this team can build something out of all this talent again. I believe that will come back and that the wins will come out of that. If you think effort is the problem - why disparage Nate Robinson? why bench David Lee? why not make examples of them as guys who play all out every night? Are you seriously going to tell me that Ariza was not in shape and didn't give effort? Brown is a joke.


Did Frye really show up 260?? If so thats the most important comment in this 4 page thread. Lets hope it translates into more rebs. And stronger low post moves to go with his nice jumper.

Channing is beefed up but I have some conflicting reports about whether or not this is muscle or bad diet. And keeping an ear to Knicks insiders it sounded more like flab than fabulous. Fish heard different but I don't know who is right. We shall see on Friday.
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rvhoss
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7/6/2006  11:34 AM
it's looking like joe is beginning to think about his posts and see that he was beginning to criticize the very players that actually played through it all last year and gave maximum effort.

I don't know what brand of haterade djsunHateTheTeamAllOfASudden is drinking, but it appears to be a special brand that was minted by LB.

dude, you realize this thread is about nate, lee and frye and these were the few brightspots last year that gave maximum effort, and you are saying now that they are chumps for answering a question comparing last year to this year?

And they didn't even say anything bad about larry, frye's circus comment was directed at the lb/marbury love affair and how the media made it a circus (oh, i forgot, you don't read you just react) and nate was asked specifically what it was like working for the either coach and he said that lb was a great coach and sometimes it was confusing.

Lee stated straight up that he started during the winning streak and then started one game the rest of the way.

Where is this larry bashing...oh, yeah, I get it, larry was the coach that orchestrated all of this.

dude, give it up. go start a "i hate the knicks from section xxx thread" it's geting weak and this way islesfat and mck1 can post with you how much you hate the knicks.

SPeaking of islesfat, what, he posts one random nothing to do with the knicks succeeding statement and when someone other than rvhoss call him out goes running for the hills?

interesting.

I have to say martin, you are pretty good at this keep the conversation equal thing...I thought you said you don't "moderate" much?

Keep it up, and thanks for making the summer all about the knicks.

You add crawford, curry and marbury to this team and we're talking a dynamite bunch...add QRich and Qwoods and it's looking extremely promising.
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martin
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7/6/2006  11:46 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

I don't know what brand of haterade djsunHateTheTeamAllOfASudden is drinking, but it appears to be a special brand that was minted by LB.

the one thing I would add is that DJ is a paying, season ticket holder. He don't care who the players are, who the coach is, who the GM is. Just as long as there are winners in the house. All of a sudden one does not turn into a disfunctional negative guy. This takes a lot of brewing.

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rvhoss
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7/6/2006  11:48 AM
that's for sure...that's for sure.

but it still doesn't explain his freaking out post LB fired.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 07-06-2006 5:49 PM]
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oohah
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7/6/2006  11:50 AM
the one thing I would add is that DJ is a paying, season ticket holder. He don't care who the players are, who the coach is, who the GM is. Just as long as there are winners in the house. All of a sudden one does not turn into a disfunctional negative guy. This takes a lot of brewing.

Let me defend DJ for a second too; Even though he has expressed opinions regarding this LB mess all year that I consider to be absurd, he is always civil about it. I've never seen him call anyone names or disparage them personally because they commented on how obviously bad LB was. He just expressed his opinion.

Now the rest of the Brown-Nosers are another story...

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 07-06-2006 11:50 AM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
joec32033
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7/6/2006  11:52 AM
Posted by misterearl:

fish.mike - it was inteneded as a referendum to compare the Knicks to the Suns.

Like Nate said, "why steal my joy?"

joec - you never answered my polite question. what is your "objective appraisal" of what the players said to the media?

Not their performance or your fantasy lineups.

Remember -"undistorted by emotion or personal bias"

Thank You

Once again, Larry should have started Lee at SF and Frye at PF. Why he didn't, I don't know. I heard he sat Frye because he didn't like his defense and the same for Lee. I'll never know.

Last season, I thought our starting lineup should have been:

Curry
Frye
Lee
Q
Marbury

-Late in the season, I though Curry should have been benched and the PF/C combo should have been Butler and Frye-whatever position you want them to be in.

What the Lee and Frye said, it is nothing we haven't heard about Larry before. He's very eccentric. I wish they just said no comment, but they didn't and that is fine, but they should move past Larry.


Nate is a whole different story. He is the most impressionable of the group(see the no shooting game soon after Steph did it) and he should have been at Brown's feet because Brown coached a guard EXACTLY like him in Iverson. When he says he is listening to "people in his corner" instead of the coach that seems a problem for me.


Please read and don't make me have to post it on youtube.com or something.
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rvhoss
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7/6/2006  11:53 AM
maytbe I just don't understand that type of season ticket holder...I'm of the different type of season ticket holder where the coach don't matter, and the players only matter after a championship or a spririted run at it (see camby, spree, houston) or (starks, ewing, oakley).

I don't even know who coached the knicks other than riley, spike lee and larry brown (oh, and nellie).

But the type of stuff he's saying, I mean, he must be new at this knick fan stuff, because they haven't won since 73, so unless this is the 33rd straw that broke the camels back, he needs to chill on the heavy handed anti knick slanted rants, because he's getting up in islesfan territory in terms of other than you reminding us that he is a season ticket holder (and appearently one of your cyberspace best friends) we wouldn't even know he was actually rooting for the team.

so, if he needs you to come to his rescue because the entire board of actual fans is wondering why he's so negative all of a sudden, then that is what it's going to take.

hopefully he is doing some soul searching and wondering why everyone disagrees with his posts...with the exception of islefan and mck1, who have never posted anything supportive about the current knicks. isles never posted anything positive about the knicks ever.

So, martin, there is a theory, that when people describe others, they actually are describing themselves.

is that why you are so negative post larry?
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oohah
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7/6/2006  11:55 AM
Once again, Larry should have started Lee at SF and Frye at PF. Why he didn't, I don't know. I heard he sat Frye because he didn't like his defense and the same for Lee. I'll never know.

Last season, I thought our starting lineup should have been:

Curry
Frye
Lee
Q
Marbury

-Late in the season, I though Curry should have been benched and the PF/C combo should have been Butler and Frye-whatever position you want them to be in.

What the Lee and Frye said, it is nothing we haven't heard about Larry before. He's very eccentric. I wish they just said no comment, but they didn't and that is fine, but they should move past Larry.

Nate is a whole different story. He is the most impressionable of the group(see the no shooting game soon after Steph did it) and he should have been at Brown's feet because Brown coached a guard EXACTLY like him in Iverson. When he says he is listening to "people in his corner" instead of the coach that seems a problem for me.

Please read and don't make me have to post it on youtube.com or something.

Joe, let me axe you this:

If you believe that LB made a bunch of wrong/unexplainable moves last year, and you beleieve the team should have been much better than they were, and you believe LB is a large culprit in the situation, what are your feelings about LB, and what LB did to our team?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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7/6/2006  11:56 AM
Martin you are correct that dj is a paying Knicks ticketholder. The rest is pure baloney.

dhsu despises Isiah Thomas, is borderline crazy on Marbury, thinks Dolan is an idiot. He thinks Jerome is a fat slug and Eddy Curry not far behind. He is on the fence about Steve Francis, Jamal, Jalen, Mo Taylor, Malik and Quentin and leaning heavily towards the negative side as they are all Zeke's choices. And he DESPISES Zeke.

David Lee is cool. Nate is tolerable. But Zeke acquired them too, so they MUST suck.

Ergo, the players must be dreck.



dj is also my boy, so I hope he doesn't mind me speaking for him.

once a knick always a knick
joec32033
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7/6/2006  11:56 AM
it's looking like joe is beginning to think about his posts and see that he was beginning to criticize the very players that actually played through it all last year and gave maximum effort.

I am doing nothing of the sort. I can appreciate someone's play and disparage the stupidity they show of talking to the media too much. You would have thought they would have learned at the very least that from the whole Larry thing.

Once again there is not one player I can in good conscience say gave all out 100% effort every game.
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djsunyc
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7/6/2006  11:57 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by rvhoss:

I don't know what brand of haterade djsunHateTheTeamAllOfASudden is drinking, but it appears to be a special brand that was minted by LB.

the one thing I would add is that DJ is a paying, season ticket holder. He don't care who the players are, who the coach is, who the GM is. Just as long as there are winners in the house. All of a sudden one does not turn into a disfunctional negative guy. This takes a lot of brewing.

thanks martin. i'm flattered that rv has taken such a liking to me that he must now use my name in every post. i can't wait for the next "djsu<quick, think of something witty to say>nyc" nickname. it should be a HOOT i tell ya...A HOOT!!!

it's quite simple - i'm dissapointed in the gm. i'm dissapointed in ownership. i'm dissapointed in the players. i'm just plain dissapointed in the team.

i was a fan of larry brown's. i was happy the knicks were bringing in the best coach available to fix broken teams. i was a fan of signing him for 5 years so he can finish off his career here and fix the franchise. i knew going in that this year meant nothing about wins and losses. i view this team in a big picture sort of way and if lb was allowed to be here for 3-4 years, this team will be a winning team...and a big one at that. but they abandoned another plan after one season.


"At first he (Brown) was trying to take my joy [away] - don't do this, don't do that. At the same time I had people in my corner saying, 'Don't ever change who you are. You got here by being who you are. By being Nate Robinson.' "

people in my corner? did the coach ever have full support?

it's getting VERY hard for me to find things to root for about this team. i don't like how everyone is preaching the same "it's all lb's fault" mantra. but it's all good. it's all up to them right now to show everyone if they can back it up. and we'll see how it plays out.
Bippity10
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7/6/2006  11:59 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

maytbe I just don't understand that type of season ticket holder...I'm of the different type of season ticket holder where the coach don't matter, and the players only matter after a championship or a spririted run at it (see camby, spree, houston) or (starks, ewing, oakley).

I don't even know who coached the knicks other than riley, spike lee and larry brown (oh, and nellie).

But the type of stuff he's saying, I mean, he must be new at this knick fan stuff, because they haven't won since 73, so unless this is the 33rd straw that broke the camels back, he needs to chill on the heavy handed anti knick slanted rants, because he's getting up in islesfan territory in terms of other than you reminding us that he is a season ticket holder (and appearently one of your cyberspace best friends) we wouldn't even know he was actually rooting for the team.

so, if he needs you to come to his rescue because the entire board of actual fans is wondering why he's so negative all of a sudden, then that is what it's going to take.

hopefully he is doing some soul searching and wondering why everyone disagrees with his posts...with the exception of islefan and mck1, who have never posted anything supportive about the current knicks. isles never posted anything positive about the knicks ever.

So, martin, there is a theory, that when people describe others, they actually are describing themselves.

is that why you are so negative post larry?


I'm guessing if he is a season ticket holder and posting on the ultimateKNICKS website than he is probably a pretty good fan. But he just saw his team win 23 games. Let the man complain. To fix your team you can't just sit bakc and say everything is roses. Every now and then it's okay to take note of our negatives.
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martin
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7/6/2006  12:00 PM
Posted by joec32033:

Once again, Larry should have started Lee at SF and Frye at PF. Why he didn't, I don't know. I heard he sat Frye because he didn't like his defense and the same for Lee. I'll never know.

Last season, I thought our starting lineup should have been:

Curry
Frye
Lee
Q
Marbury

Defense was the reason you didn't see Frye, Lee and Curry together more often. None of them knew how to play team D - weak side defense, rotations, etc. He wanted one of Malik/AD to be out there to help out with that. Remember, for most of the year our guards were playing the OLE! game and that means your bigs have to cover and rotate, and rotate some more when the ball is passed. Also, both Lee and Frye had problems stepping out to cover the 3 point line then SF/PF with range stepped out.
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