[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Damn....francis cried after the game last night
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 6 of 12 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6  7  8 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
joec32033
Posts: 30631
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 2/3/2004
Member: #583
USA
4/6/2006  11:08 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by joec32033:

^That's the case, cool, no harm no foul...piece of advice......no disrepect intended, some sarcasm doesn't translate well in a posting forum.

Bro I gotta say I admire your dedication to Steph, and I gotta ask...where does all this love for him come from?

I've been wanting this guy on the Knicks since he was drafted...But thats the way I am bro...I am a conspiracy type guy..I always think people have agendas until proved otherwise....So I only believe what I see..hehehe...no worries bro...really wasn't trying to get you riled up...


I don't get riled too much, this wasn't one of those times no worries. I loved Steph on GT and in Minny he was awesome...my only problem with him is for the past 10 years it seems like he has more air then grey matter between his ears and that has really turned me to a love or hate relationship with him. This stuff with LB is like the final straw for me. All LB does is make players better (except for Darko. That's what he does. Marbury seems to be alot like Ewing in that he is a surley, private guy who needs the me against the world approach.

The difference is Ewing worked and was a warrior I don't see in Steph for some reason. Ewing came into the league as a defensive stopper (although McCleod said that Ewing's offense was his strong point and his D needed work when he came into the league), and worked hard to improve and he did improve every year. The difference is Ewing's numbers came on winning teams and Ewing carried teams. Marbs numbers just seem to pop up 20-8, but those numbers don't seem to have any effect on the game, you know? He's alot like Rahim, Antoine Walker, Lewis. Secondary stars where their numbers are just sort of there.
~You can't run from who you are.~
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
Posts: 71929
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/6/2006  11:13 AM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by McK1:

LMAO...the Big O never faced players the caliber of Grant Hill and Lebron...MY GOD!!!


ROFL...Bill Russell is nothing like Ben Wallace

you have absolutely NO respect for the history and heritage of this game.



No No No...Not true..I have too much respect for the game not to clarify myself...The game today is alot different...The game today is played above the rim versus the way it was played yest...My Ben Wallace reference refers to the physical speciment you have to be today to play center at 6 feet 9 inches....The athelete of today is far more explosive than those of yesteryear...Defense meant something different yesterday..But Nuff repect to yesterday's players but it's a different brand of ball....


Steph never had to guard Grant Hill Or lebron. Small forwards?

Oscar was a guard:

His hall of fame Peer group:

Hal Greer
Dave BIng
Jerry West
Elgin Baylor
Gail Goodrich
Lenny Wilkins
John Havlichek
Clyde
Earl

Im sure there are more. This is just a quick list of Hall of Fame dudes off the top of my head.

Had to face these guys more frequent with no expansion teams then.

Must we water down the acomplishments of the Big O, and Larry to build a case for Steph?

Steph is not going to the hall of fame unless he wins a championship or an MVP.

Stat whores don't get to go.

Oscar was an olympic hero in 1960 back when college players dominated.

Larry Brown won gold on the 1964 team.

Steph has the US scoring record of any US player. Funny, he should have that and no Gold. (no its not his fault the US did not win!)

I know, Larry was the coach. How silly of him to ask his team to play strong fundamantal ball with divas and diva rookies! Pop was on the bench too.
jazz74
Posts: 22318
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/24/2002
Member: #371
4/6/2006  12:12 PM
Posted by holfresh:

I'm not being defensive or confrontation...really joe to be honest..I jsut trying to get you to stop believeing what you read ffom people with agendas and start watching the games and evaluate them on your own..You guys are treating this like a presidential debate where you have to wait for the commentators after the debate to give you your opinion..

These are the facts...Marbs is an offensive minded guard..he is also the best player on the team...He has been the only consistant guy all year...He is not the type of guy that will carry you on his back..He is not the leader you are looking for...the last leader in the NBA left with Jordan....There are no leaders in the game today...Stop trying to ask Steph to do things that no one else does in the game today...It's not fair...Stand on your own feet and stop letting others make your opinions for you...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 10:38 AM]

no leaders today?

minny- garnett
nj- kidd
la- kobe
clip- cassell/brand
sa- duncan/ parker
detroit- billups/ b. wallace
was- arenas
denver- melo/martin
philly- ai/webber
sac- bibby/artest
indy- o'neal/tinsley

and i could go on and on. sometimes the leaders struggle because of the surrounding talent (minny) but they are out there coaching and telling their teammates what to do while helping out. some are quiet but effective (duncan).
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
4/6/2006  2:12 PM
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by holfresh:

I'm not being defensive or confrontation...really joe to be honest..I jsut trying to get you to stop believeing what you read ffom people with agendas and start watching the games and evaluate them on your own..You guys are treating this like a presidential debate where you have to wait for the commentators after the debate to give you your opinion..

These are the facts...Marbs is an offensive minded guard..he is also the best player on the team...He has been the only consistant guy all year...He is not the type of guy that will carry you on his back..He is not the leader you are looking for...the last leader in the NBA left with Jordan....There are no leaders in the game today...Stop trying to ask Steph to do things that no one else does in the game today...It's not fair...Stand on your own feet and stop letting others make your opinions for you...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 10:38 AM]

no leaders today?

minny- garnett
nj- kidd
la- kobe
clip- cassell/brand
sa- duncan/ parker
detroit- billups/ b. wallace
was- arenas
denver- melo/martin
philly- ai/webber
sac- bibby/artest
indy- o'neal/tinsley

and i could go on and on. sometimes the leaders struggle because of the surrounding talent (minny) but they are out there coaching and telling their teammates what to do while helping out. some are quiet but effective (duncan).



Thats right they are not leaders...They do not command the respect and carry the current name of the game proudly the way Micheal, Magic,Bird,and Doc did...There players transent the sport...They carried their teams on their backs..heck, they carried their sport on their backs...They were not afraid to stand up can carry the mantle of the NBA..They took pride in that, they understood that was what is expected of them and handled it as men....Today's player don't care about that....Not all teams have leaders...You are kidding with Artest on that list right?....Leadership is bigger than the guy you pass the ball to when time runs out...Leadership is the guy you talk to when times are bad...I see you guys talk about leadership and I not sure you guys really understand it...I may be overstating it a bit, but these all fall under the umbrella...Let me leave it to you this way...A leader is the guy you would you would leave you kid in a room with for half an hour and you would tell your kid to listen to everything that guy has to say....


You want to start that list over now...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 2:16 PM]
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  2:16 PM
And if the leader talked and your kid failed to listen and then failed, would you blame the leader?
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
4/6/2006  2:17 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

And if the leader talked and your kid failed to listen and then failed, would you blame the leader?


Larry Brown of all people should try to set an example and have people follow him...So I guess Bill Davidson got it wrong as well about Brown...
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  2:20 PM
holfresh: Have you watched your team play? Are you harkening back and hoping we can go back to the good old days of last year? Just curious.

LB was just in the finals two straight years. Two straight years. winning one.Do you think he changed his methods or do you think players here have decided they don't want to follow his methods. Think hard and honestly which one is more likely.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  2:26 PM
Holfresh: I guess the difference between you and me is that you are under the impression that we were functioning well and that LB came in and tore it apart. I personally remember quotes from guys like KT about the team atmosphere. I remember the team quitting on Lenny Wilkens last year and us not supporting him and giving a second chance to a new generation of quitters. It is a organization wide epidemic to blame and undermine our coach and then be surprised when the team revolts. It happens year after year and the fans continue to fall for it.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  2:28 PM
We as an organization and fans have fostered, motivated and created this atmosphere of when the players quit it's the coach's fault. And that is why it seems to happen every year. Take the team back from the grasp of players that have never won and give it to someone who has. Until we do we will just have more years like this year, just with different names for you to blame. When is enough, enough???

[Edited by - bippity10 on 04-06-2006 2:28 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
4/6/2006  2:30 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

holfresh: Have you watched your team play? Are you harkening back and hoping we can go back to the good old days of last year? Just curious.

LB was just in the finals two straight years. Two straight years. winning one.Do you think he changed his methods or do you think players here have decided they don't want to follow his methods. Think hard and honestly which one is more likely.



Bip with all do respect....At this point it is not about X's and O's...The fact is the team does not trust Brown because of his big mouth...He throws them under the bus whenever he gets the chance..They don't trust him as a person...They can see through him and know he is not a nice guy...Now they can be professionals and overlook all this and get tough and play through this...they are a sensitive group..They are soft....They all took it personal...It's not about them not wanting to make the extra pass or trying to stay in front of the man...It's about Larry not being the leader he was hired to be....So trade the guys who took it personal..Get some bitches in here so we can try again...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 2:31 PM]
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  2:34 PM
Holfresh: with all due respect it's been the same story for the past 7 years. We've been through what 5 coach's in that span. At what point do we realize it ain't the coach's but the core players on this team. At what point do you get sick of finding a scapegoat. The easy way of making yourself feel better about your miserable organization????

You can't see it because you are as confused as the players as to his methods. I'm confused to. But what I do know is that LB did not come here to make the 8th seed. He came here to change the culture of the most embarrassing franchise in sports history. Any great coach would have done the same.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  2:44 PM
JVG had worn out his welcome. He was too tight with his substition patterns and needed to open up the offense for Spree and Camby. He refused so why would the players listen?

Any body was better than Chaney. His rotations were horrible and his game management was weird. Donald Duck was better. So why would the players listen?(although this is probably the last time we had guys that played hard everynight-coincidence that that team had Cward, Allan, Spree and KT?) Or maybe they played hard because Chaney didn't say mean things about them?

Herb was too inexperienced so that's why the players quit on him the first go around?

The game had passed Lenny by so that's why the players weren't listening?

Herb was just a fill in holding the spot for fratello, or Saunders or Jackson or Brown. His rotations were also suspect. and that's why they didn't listen

Now the game has apparently passed Brown by.

What will be the excuse when the next generation of know-it-alls quits on the next coach???

Change the culture and magically whoever is coach at that point will become a "good coach"

[Edited by - bippity10 on 04-06-2006 2:46 PM]
I just hope that people will like me
jazz74
Posts: 22318
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 12/24/2002
Member: #371
4/6/2006  2:49 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by holfresh:

I'm not being defensive or confrontation...really joe to be honest..I jsut trying to get you to stop believeing what you read ffom people with agendas and start watching the games and evaluate them on your own..You guys are treating this like a presidential debate where you have to wait for the commentators after the debate to give you your opinion..

These are the facts...Marbs is an offensive minded guard..he is also the best player on the team...He has been the only consistant guy all year...He is not the type of guy that will carry you on his back..He is not the leader you are looking for...the last leader in the NBA left with Jordan....There are no leaders in the game today...Stop trying to ask Steph to do things that no one else does in the game today...It's not fair...Stand on your own feet and stop letting others make your opinions for you...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 10:38 AM]

no leaders today?

minny- garnett
nj- kidd
la- kobe
clip- cassell/brand
sa- duncan/ parker
detroit- billups/ b. wallace
was- arenas
denver- melo/martin
philly- ai/webber
sac- bibby/artest
indy- o'neal/tinsley

and i could go on and on. sometimes the leaders struggle because of the surrounding talent (minny) but they are out there coaching and telling their teammates what to do while helping out. some are quiet but effective (duncan).



Thats right they are not leaders...They do not command the respect and carry the current name of the game proudly the way Micheal, Magic,Bird,and Doc did...There players transent the sport...They carried their teams on their backs..heck, they carried their sport on their backs...They were not afraid to stand up can carry the mantle of the NBA..They took pride in that, they understood that was what is expected of them and handled it as men....Today's player don't care about that....Not all teams have leaders...You are kidding with Artest on that list right?....Leadership is bigger than the guy you pass the ball to when time runs out...Leadership is the guy you talk to when times are bad...I see you guys talk about leadership and I not sure you guys really understand it...I may be overstating it a bit, but these all fall under the umbrella...Let me leave it to you this way...A leader is the guy you would you would leave you kid in a room with for half an hour and you would tell your kid to listen to everything that guy has to say....


You want to start that list over now...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 2:16 PM]

you are not talking about leaders when you are talking about them. they were legends who changed the game because of the previous image of the league in the 70's. that is different. if you question artest as a leader, then you haven't seen him play. he instructs everyone on the court especially defense and directs his teammates. besides loosing his cool,he is a very intelligent and savvy player who other players respect. his teammates would run through a brick wall for him. could any former teammate say that about marbury? so yeah, he is a leader.
NYKniCksFan87
Posts: 22170
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/13/2004
Member: #700
4/6/2006  2:54 PM
brown never said anything illadvised about crawford,q or malik
''We don't have the luxury to take anybody lightly,'' New York's Quentin Richardson said. ''We're not that good.''
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  3:03 PM
Posted by NYKniCksFan87:

brown never said anything illadvised about crawford,q or malik

Coincidence?
I just hope that people will like me
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
4/6/2006  3:15 PM
Posted by NYKniCksFan87:

brown never said anything illadvised about crawford,q or malik

Not is not true either...Craw was upset when he wsn't in the starting lineup at the beginning of the season...Larry had comments in teh press about that as well...Q1 is new tothe team...so he should have no comments...Malik should not even be in the game at time and he knows that...He should love Brown for the times he gets....By the way I just love how the media plays th Q1 and mailk cares card...You know what, If you care so much show me on the court..Q1 has not played D since January...Malik think he shud be the go to guy in the post.....What is going on here...So we now love the guy who cries in teh media first or kicks the scoreboard..Not the one that carries us on the court..Amazing...
holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081
4/6/2006  3:17 PM
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by holfresh:

I'm not being defensive or confrontation...really joe to be honest..I jsut trying to get you to stop believeing what you read ffom people with agendas and start watching the games and evaluate them on your own..You guys are treating this like a presidential debate where you have to wait for the commentators after the debate to give you your opinion..

These are the facts...Marbs is an offensive minded guard..he is also the best player on the team...He has been the only consistant guy all year...He is not the type of guy that will carry you on his back..He is not the leader you are looking for...the last leader in the NBA left with Jordan....There are no leaders in the game today...Stop trying to ask Steph to do things that no one else does in the game today...It's not fair...Stand on your own feet and stop letting others make your opinions for you...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 10:38 AM]

no leaders today?

minny- garnett
nj- kidd
la- kobe
clip- cassell/brand
sa- duncan/ parker
detroit- billups/ b. wallace
was- arenas
denver- melo/martin
philly- ai/webber
sac- bibby/artest
indy- o'neal/tinsley

and i could go on and on. sometimes the leaders struggle because of the surrounding talent (minny) but they are out there coaching and telling their teammates what to do while helping out. some are quiet but effective (duncan).



Thats right they are not leaders...They do not command the respect and carry the current name of the game proudly the way Micheal, Magic,Bird,and Doc did...There players transent the sport...They carried their teams on their backs..heck, they carried their sport on their backs...They were not afraid to stand up can carry the mantle of the NBA..They took pride in that, they understood that was what is expected of them and handled it as men....Today's player don't care about that....Not all teams have leaders...You are kidding with Artest on that list right?....Leadership is bigger than the guy you pass the ball to when time runs out...Leadership is the guy you talk to when times are bad...I see you guys talk about leadership and I not sure you guys really understand it...I may be overstating it a bit, but these all fall under the umbrella...Let me leave it to you this way...A leader is the guy you would you would leave you kid in a room with for half an hour and you would tell your kid to listen to everything that guy has to say....


You want to start that list over now...



[Edited by - holfresh on 04-06-2006 2:16 PM]

you are not talking about leaders when you are talking about them. they were legends who changed the game because of the previous image of the league in the 70's. that is different. if you question artest as a leader, then you haven't seen him play. he instructs everyone on the court especially defense and directs his teammates. besides loosing his cool,he is a very intelligent and savvy player who other players respect. his teammates would run through a brick wall for him. could any former teammate say that about marbury? so yeah, he is a leader.



hahaha....Run through a wall for him..funny stuff...
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  3:57 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by NYKniCksFan87:

brown never said anything illadvised about crawford,q or malik

Not is not true either...Craw was upset when he wsn't in the starting lineup at the beginning of the season...Larry had comments in teh press about that as well...Q1 is new tothe team...so he should have no comments...Malik should not even be in the game at time and he knows that...He should love Brown for the times he gets....By the way I just love how the media plays th Q1 and mailk cares card...You know what, If you care so much show me on the court..Q1 has not played D since January...Malik think he shud be the go to guy in the post.....What is going on here...So we now love the guy who cries in teh media first or kicks the scoreboard..Not the one that carries us on the court..Amazing...


Crawford complained about not starting which was a no no. Since that day he did nto take it personally and decided to accept his role. Coincidence that he has taken the biggest leap forward???? Of course it's not because he decided to listen, not throw a self-serving rebellion that serves noone.

Malik and Q have been horrible this year but they have given effort from day one. Denying this is personal perception but most people have been praising them all season(even before now) for their effort. Wee are not winning a title with this bunch so I'm not concerned with guys that put up good numbers. I'm concerned with an attitude change. An attitude change that you don't think needs to be made. Malik, Q, Craw, David and Channing have been good soldiers from day one. It's not coincidence that they have stayed out of the papers.

Marbury and at times Nate have staged open revolts and yet are shocked that they find themselves in the papers. I have no sympathy for them. I have no sympathy for people that make millions of dollars to do a job and yet feel it's okay to not do that job because someone that insults them. And I have no concept of understanding for a person that defends these people. You could never play for me. You would be crying from day one. No room for babies in basketball. Do your job, listen to the coach and if the system is bad we can change it AFTER THE GAME/SEASON. During the game shut up and do what you get paid for.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
4/6/2006  3:58 PM
Stop holding on and showing loyalty to guys that are stealing money out of the fans hands.
I just hope that people will like me
Nalod
Posts: 71929
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
4/6/2006  4:13 PM
Holly,

I think your making too much over the media dissing. JVG used to bitch all the time in the media.

Every game, every pratice Larry is swarmed for quotes. Larry is outspoken, and he is fed freaking up over this season.

I for one think he is really holding back what he thinks of certain players.

This might be the worst knick team in history, and given its payroll, its a huge story. Every day.

DJ (Scoop) is throwing out lots of quotables the last few days to demostrate that there is balance in his quotes.

I also think not all the negative is about Steph.

steph said it was personal. Steph said he should "fight back". Reezy was upset. Craw was upset and improved all year long. Now he understands what he is being asked.

One quote from larry that blows me away, that in his 31 years of coaching, he never had to plead with his players to give effort. That speaks volume about what his happening behind closed doors.

At the same time larry says he must do better and has admitted about the lineups all winter being screwed up. But he never got from a lineup what he wanted!

These guys are paid millions and take all kinds of crap from fans, and from coaches. This is not college, this is the pros. What ever larry said in the press, even if its wrong, should not derail these guys to these levels and reduce their self esteem to the levels we are seeing.

These guys are suppose to be tough, street tough, take crap from screeming fans. They have risen above THOUSANDS of players in the WORLD to be the top one percent that actually makes the NBA. Then they have proven talent to get big contracts, which is not all that common outside the knicks. And a few comments form a coach is going to derail them to this degree?

Even if so, they would then be the biggest Phuching pussies on the planet. If Larrys 3 negative quotes so turned off Marbury with his cool hip hop keep it real street tough cred from tough coney island and screwed him up then WTF do we have here? A little 65 year old jewish coach with a bad blatter just flat out phuched him up!

WussBury!
Page 6 of 12 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6  7  8 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Damn....francis cried after the game last night
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy