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KNICKS FANS....YOU"RE BEING PLAYED!!!
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McK1
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3/21/2006  12:08 PM
tim thomas, sweetney, kurt thomas < QRich, Curry, Frye

based on what?

KT gives more in the hustle defense and intangible department than those 3 combined.

TT is a better shooter and overall better offensive player than Q

Sweetney is a better rebounder and help defender than Curry

[Edited by - McK1 on 03-21-2006 12:10 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 03-21-2006 12:12 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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joec32033
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3/21/2006  12:10 PM
I'd even have to agree with him on that.
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McK1
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3/21/2006  12:14 PM
here is a thought:

perhaps the team would've performed better had Isiah not made the Kurt for Q and Sweetney and TT for Curry trade.

[Edited by - McK1 on 03-21-2006 12:17 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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3/21/2006  12:22 PM
Posted by McK1:

here is a thought:

perhaps the team would've performed better had Isiah not made the Kurt for Q and Sweetney and TT for Curry trade.

[Edited by - McK1 on 03-21-2006 12:17 PM]

i think that if they could do-over a deal, the kurt trade would not have happened. having kurt and AD as the frontcourt while trying to bring along frye and curry would've helped tremendously. q is been a very hard worker but ultimately has been a bust. and nate, i love him, but kurt thomas is better than nate robinson.
McK1
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3/21/2006  12:27 PM
I doubt the Curry trade gets done again either especially with so many 7 footers emerging in the NCAA's.



the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
holfresh
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3/21/2006  1:30 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

we can completely discard everything ever reported in the media. that's cool.

still doesn't change the fact that steph was traded many times over his career. but the most important one was from a suns team, at that time, the darlings of the nba and the "future" of the nba...fresh off giving him a max extension.

so forget everything else, he was traded from a suns team for "junk" with no knowledge whatsoever that they were going to end up with nash, kobe, or manu. they just gambled by trading away their point guard, the guy that helped them push the spurs the year before.

that's all we need to know.

kvh, tim thomas, glenn robinson...all guys traded many times. there's a reason these guys are always moved.

you trade FOR them expecting something...but ultimately they don't give you what you want so you move them along.

and this has NOTHING to do with anything reported or in the media.

lb has clashed with many players, especially his primary ball handlers, but every single one of them, to this day pretty much say that he's made them a better player. billups said it. iverson cried on national tv. marbury is somewhere between those two talent wise. maybe one day it will be him on tv crying about how lb made him a better player. but that door is closing pretty quickly.



Being trading a few times in your career is no indictment on who you are as a player...Billups bounced around this league, Rasheed bounced around, C Webb,Ben Wallace, Nash,J Kidd, Sam Cassell, etc...I could make an all star team of guys that have been traded a few times and are successful players in this league....

Bippity10
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3/21/2006  1:35 PM
I love Marbs but I also think this guy has a real hard time understanding that he and the coach are on the same team!!!!! I want to defend him but this is now the fourth team where he has had a problem with a player, a coach or someone. At some point we have to say Marbs maybe it is you and stop making excuse after excuse for him. If you are doing what the coach says, he will not snipe at you . Coach's don't randomly hate players(like some seeem to think). We want to love all our players. But when a player refuses to do what you say(whether he agrees are not is irrelevant) it hurts the entire team. Shut up and do what the coach says and you will never have to worry about him sniping at you. If you don't agree with it, wait until your contract runs out and go somewhere else. Or better yet tear up your contract and go somewhere else. Of course it would never happen. So why you are here accepting millions of dollars listen to teh coach who's only job is to help you win!!!!!!!

As for his defense. I won't say whether he is capable of being a good defender or not. But I will say this. Isn't it funny how everytime LB bashes his defense he comes out the next night and plays great D. That's all I'm saying. Love the guy, praying he succeeds here but I have to be honest.
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Allanfan20
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3/21/2006  1:42 PM
People are creatures of habit. I remember before Christmas LAST season, and the media was going crazy about how Isiah called Marbury and said he was the worst defensive guard in the NBA, and Marbury played great defense for a few games (Helped lead the Knicks to 3 games above .500) then made his best pg in the NBA statement, and it went downhill from there.

I think Marbury has the ability to guard the real big guards who use their strength, and don't depend on their off the ball quickness, but he really gets in trouble when he's guarding the quick Earl Watsons of the world, and Jason Williams, and so forth.

That's not good. A PG needs to be guarding PGs!
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
TMS
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3/21/2006  1:49 PM
Marbury can't guard anyone who can shoot from the perimeter because he never runs through screens... he gives his man way too much space because he knows he can't keep the guy from penetrating... & if he does get up to guard penetration, he ends up letting his man blow right past him & get a wide open layup or beat him on backdoor cuts... he's decent at getting his hands on balls & causing T/O's here & there, but for the most part, he's a horrible defender... i've seen him play solid D on occasion when he puts his mind to it, but being considered a "good defender" involves consistency just like everything else.
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holfresh
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3/21/2006  1:53 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:

Why should we look at the guy as a leader, why are we putting this mantle on him, he doesn't want it... He is not the answer, he is not the guy you build a team around

& that's all alot of us are saying... we want a guy who's a leader to play PG on this team... Marbury isn't a good fit... no one's ragging on his basketball skills... everyone knows he's a prolific scoring G, just not one that plays well in the type of system LB's trying to implement... therefore, he needs to go & we need to find a PG who DOES work well in LB's system & will make everyone around him better by playing good defense & being a leader on the floor.

he is a piece of the puzzle...

what puzzle is he a piece to in your estimation? a championship puzzle? i just don't see it... isn't that what we're aiming for afterall? a championship? or are you just concerned with watching a guy put up 20 & 8 while playing highly inconsistent defense, have teammates dislike playing w/him, & struggle to finish w/a .500 record year in & year out? i certainly won't be happy w/that, & i think i can fairly speak for plenty of others on this board that feel the same way.

I think people are trying to make him something he is not and because he doesn't live up to certain people's expectation they want to get rid of him...

seems to me that you agree w/alot of what we've been saying about Marbury & yet can't understand why we want to get rid of him... that's the puzzling part.



My expectations of Marbs and your expectation are quite different...You are looking for output that comes with being a superstar and I don't put Marbs in that light...How many point guards in this league are considered franchise players, not many if any...Kidd is not franchise player either, so don't go there...You have been singing the Marb's perimeter defense being the problem with the Knicks ever since this latest round of Marbs vs. Larry biz began...If we could list the problems with the Knicks this year, Marbs perimeter D would not make the top 100.....Marb's can and does need to improve his D on a nightly basis, but don't tell me this guy hasn't showed signs of playing D this year....C'mon.....



[Edited by - holfresh on 03-21-2006 1:58 PM]
islesfan
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3/21/2006  2:05 PM
This thread is the message board equivalent of:

First Kid: You're stupid!

Second Kid: I know you are, but what am I?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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3/21/2006  2:06 PM
He has shown signs. That's the problem, it's just signs. If he thinks he has enough juice to snipe back at his coach then that has to mean he is playing D EVERYNIGHT. If he's not, what ground does he have to stand on. That's Marb's problem. He has no leverage but he's constantly thinking he does. That's why he always has probs with coach's, teammates etc.

Marbs is what 30 now? It's time for him to realize that the only way he wins is to give the effort a coach asks. Coach's aren't idiots. They know what a player is capable of. LB is not asking Marbs to do what he can't. What he is asking is for him to bring the energy every night. Instead his entire career have been spent sapping the energy from the very team that is there to help him reach his goals.

The sooner he realizes this the sooner his haters will disappear. I hated the Houston and Ewing detractors because those guys gave 1000%, never stepped out of line yet still were hated. I appreciated their short comings because they did what they could. But when I hear a career loser questioning his coach(hall of fame or not) system is beyond comprehension. It's like one of my freshman questioning me.

Marbs is not a superstar! He needs to accept his role like every other non superstar in this league.
I just hope that people will like me
fishmike
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3/21/2006  2:07 PM
Marbs hasn't showed signs of playing D this year

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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3/21/2006  2:32 PM
Posted by holfresh:


My expectations of Marbs and your expectation are quite different...You are looking for output that comes with being a superstar and I don't put Marbs in that light...

that's not what i've been saying at all... i repeat it over & over again yet you just can't seem to get the point i'm trying to make... it's not about talent... it's not about #'s w/Marbury... it's about his INability to lead & his INability to buy into the system that LB is trying to run... this is only 1 example, but give me a less talented player like Brevin Knight to replace Stephon Marbury & i am willing to bet you that this team will improve instantly chemistry wise because you'd have a PG who's willing to play the type of smart, fundamental TEAM oriented basketball that LB is looking for out of his PG... a guy who is willing to be a leader, play defense, share the ball, orchestrate the offense without caring about his own stats or the role he's playing on the team... that's what i'm talking about... i'm not looking for a superstar to replace Marbury... is that clear enough for you yet?
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nixluva
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3/21/2006  2:51 PM
UGHHHHHHHH. I just can't take this anymore! Some of you guys are FREAKING CLUELESS. Let me ask you which guard in the NBA can stop another guard one on one? NONE. What is happening to Steph is that he's constantly being run thru picks which is mostly how these guys get around him. Did any of you actually WATCH the Heat game. did you see that Steph was handling Wade but Francis was letting him do whatever he wanted? STeph is LIGHTYEARS better on D than a guy like Francis. You think Tony Parker or Nash play D? THEY STINK! BUT their teams have better defenders behind them so you don't focus on it. Billups looks even better on D, cuz he has GREAT defenders behind him. He can't stop Steph, but when you have all those guys behind you they make BIllups look even better. Also Steph and our guards in general have to help so much inside that they leave the opposing guards wide open. Its not just that Steph NEVER defends his position. How did he get hurt in the 1st place, by FIGHTING thru a pick as you're supposed to!!!!! What you guys want Steph to do is impossible for 82 games. He already does more than any other player on this team and you want him to also be a super defender too. You think its easy, with no help? OUR TEAM defense stinks not just Steph.

It wouldn't hurt for LB to have tried different zones, it would give the players a break, but he's trying to make a point. Don't think that LB is some saint when it comes to trying to get his way. He knows EXACTLY what he's doing.
holfresh
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3/21/2006  3:04 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by holfresh:


My expectations of Marbs and your expectation are quite different...You are looking for output that comes with being a superstar and I don't put Marbs in that light...

that's not what i've been saying at all... i repeat it over & over again yet you just can't seem to get the point i'm trying to make... it's not about talent... it's not about #'s w/Marbury... it's about his INability to lead & his INability to buy into the system that LB is trying to run... this is only 1 example, but give me a less talented player like Brevin Knight to replace Stephon Marbury & i am willing to bet you that this team will improve instantly chemistry wise because you'd have a PG who's willing to play the type of smart, fundamental TEAM oriented basketball that LB is looking for out of his PG... a guy who is willing to be a leader, play defense, share the ball, orchestrate the offense without caring about his own stats or the role he's playing on the team... that's what i'm talking about... i'm not looking for a superstar to replace Marbury... is that clear enough for you yet?



You are insane....Steph has better assist numbers that all those stiffs like Breven Knight through- out his career...And you think those guys play any lic of D...Like it or not, Steph is one of the better guys distrubuting the ball in the game today...He gets knock against him because he scores so well....So people like to say thats all he wants to do...yes, people like you...Look at Steph's numbers during the six game win streak before he went down and tell me what more do you want....Hell, look at his shots per game all season and tell me what part of those numbers tell you that this is a shoot first guard...Steph is the type of player that should take 15 shots per game....It doesn't matter what this kid does at this point, you all have your blinders on and can't see the forest from the trees...
rvhoss
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3/21/2006  3:06 PM
changed my mind, good to see some actual fans coming to the rescue...they don't even remember that steph was hurt being run through a screen. (szerbiak)

It's just "it's all marbs fault"

Glad to see someone actually thought that a zone may help...I'm telling you guys, it ain't all marbs...marbs is probably our second best defending guard.

There is a reason they run him through screens.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 03-21-2006 9:09 PM]
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Bippity10
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3/21/2006  3:09 PM
nixluva at what point is it the player's fault? Noone's asking Marb's to be a shut down defender. But with the team up 2 and a minute left it would be nice to know your PG will not fall asleep, lose his concentration and let his guy drift out to the three point line uncontested. We can't trust him. He shouldn't be hated for that. I dont' hate him for that. It's not the poor defense that brings the ire from fans. It's the poor defense followed by anger at the coach that asks him to play better defense even though he never wins that causes the ire.
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TMS
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3/21/2006  3:16 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Steph has better assist numbers that all those stiffs like Breven Knight through- out his career...And you think those guys play any lic of D...Like it or not, Steph is one of the better guys distrubuting the ball in the game today.

i think you should've looked up Brevin Knight's stats before you responded to that one... he's averaging almost 9 assists & over 2 steals per game & look at what he's playing with... again, i just got through saying he was a less talented player than Marbury but again you choose to hear what you want to hear... it's about style of play & who i think is a better fit for LB's system.

can't wait to see what you're going to come up with to accuse me of hating on Marbury this time.

[Edited by - TMS on 03-21-2006 3:18 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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3/21/2006  3:18 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

nixluva at what point is it the player's fault? Noone's asking Marb's to be a shut down defender. But with the team up 2 and a minute left it would be nice to know your PG will not fall asleep, lose his concentration and let his guy drift out to the three point line uncontested. We can't trust him. He shouldn't be hated for that. I dont' hate him for that. It's not the poor defense that brings the ire from fans. It's the poor defense followed by anger at the coach that asks him to play better defense even though he never wins that causes the ire.



Ok tell me this, If you think it's all Marbs....What point guard's defense are you so happy with that Steph should pattern his defense after...Also, tell me what point guard in this league do you see covering bigger guards and be successful at it....Tell me just one, on the second part of my question.....
KNICKS FANS....YOU"RE BEING PLAYED!!!

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