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Marbury last 5 games
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SlimPack
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12/28/2005  12:36 PM
also JC and n8 went on a run w/o marbs to get the knicks back in the celtic game with their starters in although the knicks eventually lost.

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-28-2005 12:39 PM]
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EWING33BXNY
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12/28/2005  12:40 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

also JC and n8 went on a run w/o marbs to get the knicks back in the celtic, game, although the knicks eventually lost.

Honestly, do you think we really would be BETTER without him? Is there anyone else BETTER than him on the KNICKS now?

If you think that is true, then I guess to each his own.

This just reminds of how BETTER we were suppose to be without EWING, without HOUSTON. Where have we gone without either one?
djsunyc
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12/28/2005  12:46 PM
Posted by Killa4luv:

Well how about this for a theory.

The Knicks could have more victories but because of LB's lack of a SL, crazy rotation, Craws inconsistancy, Currys injuries, and q's ineptitude, we haven't. Steph has been by far the best and most consistant player on the team. He is frustrated, because he could do more things to help us win, but because of LB's insistance on coaching to his liking as opposed to his personnel he cannot. As a result his infamous body language has appeared to be more pronounced, but hasn't actually worsened, it is just visible more often because we are losing more often. If it indeed has worsened it is in response to our losing and the frustration that comes with that. Not to mention the fact the he is blamed for everything bad that happpens to the knicks whether it is his fault or not.

problem is, every team steph ever played for catered to him and for the most part, has not resulted in any type of success. and in the one situation where it did (phx), the coach and the other 2 good players wanted him gone.

in this situation, lb's way has been proven to work so he's installing his system. i ask this, why was it so hard for steph ("the toughest 10 assists in my life") that he pleaded to be moved to sg? i mean, steph IS the best pg, got frustrated quickly, then asked to be moved to sg. and this AFTER he said on SAS that he can score 30 any night but doesn't want to b/c he wants to be pg.

your take, "b/c he feels like he could help the team with his scoring." my take, "coach, i can't play my game. i want to be iverson so i can play my game the way i want to. i don't like playing pg in your system." which is more likely the case?

i never once blamed steph for ANY loss. i never once blamed steph for anything. i just don't want him around our young kids. i want to let those guys grow together and move on. i want the philosphy of this organization to change.
SlimPack
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12/28/2005  12:51 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:
Posted by SlimPack:

also JC and n8 went on a run w/o marbs to get the knicks back in the celtic, game, although the knicks eventually lost.

Honestly, do you think we really would be BETTER without him? Is there anyone else BETTER than him on the KNICKS now?

If you think that is true, then I guess to each his own.

This just reminds of how BETTER we were suppose to be without EWING, without HOUSTON. Where have we gone without either one?

I'm not presently convinced that the knicks would really be better off without marbs on a permanent basis, but it does seem that way occasionaly. And also were people saying that we would be better off without houston, I never thought that, the only thing I remember people saying that around the twilight of his career that ewing was slowing down the offense, and it's true that the knicks started sucking when he was traded, but who knows if that wouldn't have happened if ewing was still there, the reason the knicks started sucking after ewing was traded to me it seemed more becuase just about everyone was getting injured.



[Edited by - slimpack on 12-28-2005 12:53 PM]
EWING33BXNY
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12/28/2005  12:56 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by EWING33BXNY:
Posted by SlimPack:

also JC and n8 went on a run w/o marbs to get the knicks back in the celtic, game, although the knicks eventually lost.

Honestly, do you think we really would be BETTER without him? Is there anyone else BETTER than him on the KNICKS now?

If you think that is true, then I guess to each his own.

This just reminds of how BETTER we were suppose to be without EWING, without HOUSTON. Where have we gone without either one?

I'm not presently convinced that the knicks would really be better off without marbs on a permanent basis, but it does seem that way occasionaly. And also were people saying that we would be better off without houston, I never thought that, although I do remember people saying that around the twilight of his career that ewing was slowing down the offense, and it's true that the knicks started sucking when he was traded, but who knows if that wouldn't have happened if ewing was still there, the reason the knicks started sucking after ewing was traded to me it seemed more becuase just about everyone was getting injured.

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-28-2005 12:52 PM]

I just want the fans to realize we are not going to receive equal talent for Marbury. Even if we get picks, who can compare to Marbury now. LB was brought in to make this a winning team and now we are just sitting here with our thumbs up our arses and losing again. This is just disgusting how the best fans in the world are always handed GARBAGE. IT should have let LB alone and went after a coach who teaches basketball to improves the strenghts of the current players. This is just a sad year, we look so good on PAPER!!

BlueSeats
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12/28/2005  1:02 PM
I'd bet my house that if steph were traded today for Nash or Kidd it would be such an adrenaline rush to the team and we'd be playing a sustained .500 ball from day one.

Now some of us consider them in a different league from most of the others PGs at this point in time (though guys like Parker and TJ Ford are coming up strong), and it's an unfair comparison. Maybe. But I'd guess there are a lot of you who've felt that Steph is just as 'talented' as them. You have to ask yourself then what are the intangible differences that separate Steph from them. I his talents are so great why does he fair so much the worse?

I think it's a question worth pondering.
Bippity10
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12/28/2005  1:04 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by Bippity10:

Two nights ago I saw Channing frye get knocked to the floor. I saw Jamal Crawford walk away from him. I saw Malik Rose ignore him. I saw AD and Marbs sprint to help him up off the floor. If we search hard enough we can find things to hate. I'm not saying I beleive or disbelieve any of the stories. I just know that over the last 2 weeks I've heard more stories from people that were "at the games" and that nobody talked to Marbs etc that Im very skeptical. Everytime I'm at the games I see him and Jamal and Malik having a grand old time chatting and laughing together.

during what game did this happen, and when in the game?

It didn't happen and that's my point. I can make up shiot about Marbury over and over again and over time there are so many people that want the negative stuff to be true that over time my story will become fact. That is what is happening everywhere with Marbs. The guy has been wearing towels fo ryears through wins and losses as the pictures above show. But now in this time when we are looking for someone to blame, now all of a sudden he is walking around with a shotgun under his towel and taking potshots at teammates.

I hate Marb's body language and I don't think he is a leader. But I am at least making an attempt at being objective instead of jumping on with the 50 million Marbury conspiracy theories that are popping up everywhere. Just read this post. How many unconfirmed Marbury conspiracy theories are there on this post alone.

Marbury is not shooting because he wants to prove Brown wrong
Brown is starting a bad line-up to expose Marbs
Nobody on the team talks to or likes Marbs
Marbs is wearing his towel more than ever
Zekes quote about Marbs is even misquoted 2 or 3 times

all this stuff has a life of it's own and we buy it all. Just saying try to be objective. These are your Knicks. It's been a long time without a title and I know this isn't Ewing, Marbs and Houston's fault
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SlimPack
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12/28/2005  1:04 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by EWING33BXNY:
Posted by SlimPack:

also JC and n8 went on a run w/o marbs to get the knicks back in the celtic, game, although the knicks eventually lost.

Honestly, do you think we really would be BETTER without him? Is there anyone else BETTER than him on the KNICKS now?

If you think that is true, then I guess to each his own.

This just reminds of how BETTER we were suppose to be without EWING, without HOUSTON. Where have we gone without either one?

I'm not presently convinced that the knicks would really be better off without marbs on a permanent basis, but it does seem that way occasionaly. And also were people saying that we would be better off without houston, I never thought that, although I do remember people saying that around the twilight of his career that ewing was slowing down the offense, and it's true that the knicks started sucking when he was traded, but who knows if that wouldn't have happened if ewing was still there, the reason the knicks started sucking after ewing was traded to me it seemed more becuase just about everyone was getting injured.

[Edited by - slimpack on 12-28-2005 12:52 PM]

I just want the fans to realize we are not going to receive equal talent for Marbury. Even if we get picks, who can compare to Marbury now. LB was brought in to make this a winning team and now we are just sitting here with our thumbs up our arses and losing again. This is just disgusting how the best fans in the world are always handed GARBAGE. IT should have let LB alone and went after a coach who teaches basketball to improves the strenghts of the current players. This is just a sad year, we look so good on PAPER!!

yeah i agree that thinks have been terrible so far, but I honestly still think that in the long run we'll be better off with LB as the coach, marbury as well as most other knicks seems to be struggling to play in a way that is unatural for them, but if you think about it just about everyone of larrys teams play like this when he first gets their but then starts playing great a few months later, I think larry deserves more time, and so does marbury, I think he can be a valueable peice for us once he adapts, and from what Ive read he is trying his best to adapt so he should be given enough time to do so, anyway I only asked killa4luv that question just to see what his response would be, I don't truely beleive that the knicks are better off wihtout marbury, although from what I've seen so far there's a chance that they actually might be.
EWING33BXNY
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12/28/2005  1:05 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

I'd bet my house that if steph were traded today for Nash or Kidd it would be such an adrenaline rush to the team and we'd be playing a sustained .500 ball from day one.

Now some of us consider them in a different league from most of the others PGs at this point in time (though guys like Parker and TJ Ford are coming up strong), and it's an unfair comparison. Maybe. But I'd guess there are a lot of you who've felt that Steph is just as 'talented' as them. You have to ask yourself then what are the intangible differences that separate Steph from them. I his talents are so great why does he fair so much the worse?

I think it's a question worth pondering.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. We are not going to get a KIDD or a NASH. Why can't we just deal with reality instead of these BOGUS scenarios people create on the board.

Do I think Nash and Kidd would help, YES. Are we going to get NASH or KIDD, NO. Please wake up!

Bippity10
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12/28/2005  1:05 PM
And enough with the Ewing revisionist history. That guy was ridiculed and blamed for our failures for a looooooooooooooooooooooong time. I knew people would come on to these sites and pretend it never happened. They will be doing the same to Allan HOuston a couple years from now.
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nixluva
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12/28/2005  1:05 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Killa4luv:

Well how about this for a theory.

The Knicks could have more victories but because of LB's lack of a SL, crazy rotation, Craws inconsistancy, Currys injuries, and q's ineptitude, we haven't. Steph has been by far the best and most consistant player on the team. He is frustrated, because he could do more things to help us win, but because of LB's insistance on coaching to his liking as opposed to his personnel he cannot. As a result his infamous body language has appeared to be more pronounced, but hasn't actually worsened, it is just visible more often because we are losing more often. If it indeed has worsened it is in response to our losing and the frustration that comes with that. Not to mention the fact the he is blamed for everything bad that happpens to the knicks whether it is his fault or not.

problem is, every team steph ever played for catered to him and for the most part, has not resulted in any type of success. and in the one situation where it did (phx), the coach and the other 2 good players wanted him gone.

in this situation, lb's way has been proven to work so he's installing his system. i ask this, why was it so hard for steph ("the toughest 10 assists in my life") that he pleaded to be moved to sg? i mean, steph IS the best pg, got frustrated quickly, then asked to be moved to sg. and this AFTER he said on SAS that he can score 30 any night but doesn't want to b/c he wants to be pg.

your take, "b/c he feels like he could help the team with his scoring." my take, "coach, i can't play my game. i want to be iverson so i can play my game the way i want to. i don't like playing pg in your system." which is more likely the case?

i never once blamed steph for ANY loss. i never once blamed steph for anything. i just don't want him around our young kids. i want to let those guys grow together and move on. i want the philosphy of this organization to change.

The thing is that Steph had success with Minny playing the exact same way he plays now. He wasn't traded cuz they didn't like him. He wanted to leave cuz of his own immaturity, but the team had its 1st success with him as PG. 1st playoff appearances and 1st winning season. Its not true that Steph hasn't made players better cuz in fact most of the guys he's played with have had some of their best scoring seasons playing with him. I know this for a fact. You can go and look it up.

As far as Steph not liking this LB PG style, its mainly cuz we don't have enough guys who can create their own shots or hit open shots when set up properly. IF you where out there watching guys just look horrible in this system you'd want to do more too.

Its not his style that doesn't win, its the teams he's played on. Name me the team he's been on that was expected to challenge for the NBA title in the season he played for them. NO team he's ever been on was at that stage of development or had that level of talent. Even when he was on Minny, KG was just a kid and so was he. Nets NEVER had that kind of talent. It was just STeph, KVH and Kmart was a rookie just coming back form a big injury. Phx again Steph had Marion and Amare was a rookie. Steph only played 18 games with Amare in his sophomore seaons, so who knows what would have happened. Here we've not yet had a team that was ready for anything.

Look at who Steph plays with when he's on the court. He starts with guys like Q, Ariza, AD or James. Heck if he was allowed to play his game he could set these guys up for easy buckets like he did for Nazr and KT, but with this style he's not able to do that, cuz in this offense the PG simply starts the swing of the ball and isn't always the one making the pass that leads to the shot. The problem is that these guys mostly create TO's or Miss the shot. Its really unfair to Steph that he's mostly facing the other teams starting lineup with a VERY weak offensive squad of his own. Then he's not allowed to do what he can do. how much help does he get from his teammates and how much can he do to help them when he's mostly just bringing it up and making an early pass that leads to another pass, instead of his probing the D and then finding the open man for open shots.

IF LB let Steph and JC play their game and let the Bigs feed off of what they create this team would be as potent if not more than last years team on offense. We avg'd 97ppg and that was with TT, Penny and H2O and very little at center. Now I think we could be even more effective with the guys we have if we played to their strengths.
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12/28/2005  1:07 PM
Posted by EWING33BXNY:

He's been doing it for years. All of a sudden everyone is talking about it as if it was something new.
And he doesn't look too upset in these photos, so enough with this "theory" already.
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[Edited by - EWING33BXNY on 12-28-2005 12:19 PM]

Yeah man, it's exactly what I was saying earlier. When he first came to the Knicks, he was a smilin' a little more. I remember Houston hit that shot against Dallas and Marbury was yelling at the crowd trying to get them to get up. He's an emotional guy, just not outwardly. It is possible y'know. And perhaps the losing is getting to his head. He's a very competitive guy. It is possible. Or maybe he's an arshole. It is possible. Or maybe it's a little of all. Very possible. None of us know, so why is it an issue?

Isiah: I have started this press conference to announce that we have traded Stephon Marbury to the Boston Celtics for Raef LaFrenz. We've decided that Stephons towel wearing tendencies have brought us to realize we need to move on. We'd like to welcome Raef who sucks and will make us worse, but has a smile on his face on occasion and puts those towels to good use.

Dolan: We were thinking of suspending Stephon until he was willing to make a positive contribution, but I support Isiah and this will be just another step towards a championship.

...3 years later...

BOOOO CHANNING!!!! We are the worst team in the league and it's your fault. We must trade you for Cherokee Parks!
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
BlueSeats
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12/28/2005  1:08 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
The guy has been wearing towels fo ryears through wins and losses as the pictures above show.

And he's been traded 3 times in 8 years and may be on fragile ground here with the best possible relationship one could have with a GM. He hasn't stayed on a team more than 2.5 years, hasn't won more than 45 or 46 games, nor been out of the first round of the playoffs.

Coincidence?

martin
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12/28/2005  1:12 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by Bippity10:

Two nights ago I saw Channing frye get knocked to the floor. I saw Jamal Crawford walk away from him. I saw Malik Rose ignore him. I saw AD and Marbs sprint to help him up off the floor. If we search hard enough we can find things to hate. I'm not saying I beleive or disbelieve any of the stories. I just know that over the last 2 weeks I've heard more stories from people that were "at the games" and that nobody talked to Marbs etc that Im very skeptical. Everytime I'm at the games I see him and Jamal and Malik having a grand old time chatting and laughing together.

during what game did this happen, and when in the game?

It didn't happen and that's my point. I can make up shiot about Marbury over and over again and over time there are so many people that want the negative stuff to be true that over time my story will become fact. That is what is happening everywhere with Marbs. The guy has been wearing towels fo ryears through wins and losses as the pictures above show. But now in this time when we are looking for someone to blame, now all of a sudden he is walking around with a shotgun under his towel and taking potshots at teammates.

I hate Marb's body language and I don't think he is a leader. But I am at least making an attempt at being objective instead of jumping on with the 50 million Marbury conspiracy theories that are popping up everywhere. Just read this post. How many unconfirmed Marbury conspiracy theories are there on this post alone.

Marbury is not shooting because he wants to prove Brown wrong
Brown is starting a bad line-up to expose Marbs
Nobody on the team talks to or likes Marbs
Marbs is wearing his towel more than ever
Zekes quote about Marbs is even misquoted 2 or 3 times

all this stuff has a life of it's own and we buy it all. Just saying try to be objective. These are your Knicks. It's been a long time without a title and I know this isn't Ewing, Marbs and Houston's fault

I'll go along with you Bip. So what's your take on how Brown is treating Marb? Exposing him for sure, but what is he teaching him and how does this time period of limited options help Marb in the long run? Or does it just help the team in teaching them where and when to be where they are supposed to be? Besides being a fan I have no coaches' (or players') perspective on this. Do explain and help me.

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EWING33BXNY
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12/28/2005  1:13 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by Bippity10:
The guy has been wearing towels fo ryears through wins and losses as the pictures above show.

And he's been traded 3 times in 8 years and may be on fragile ground here with the best possible relationship one could have with a GM. He hasn't stayed on a team more than 2.5 years, hasn't won more than 45 or 46 games, nor been out of the first round of the playoffs.

Coincidence?

Is it coincidence that he is constantly told to make SUGAR out of $*IT. That is what they are asking him to do now. The man has never played with STARS in their PRIME and stunk up the joint. He is the best player we have and everyone is running him out of town.

SlimPack
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12/28/2005  1:20 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

And enough with the Ewing revisionist history. That guy was ridiculed and blamed for our failures for a looooooooooooooooooooooong time. I knew people would come on to these sites and pretend it never happened. They will be doing the same to Allan HOuston a couple years from now.

yeah thats true, I didnt mean to say that ewing was only blamed when he got old, I just thought that that was what people where angry with him about just before he was traded.
Bippity10
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12/28/2005  1:24 PM
I think brown is trying to teach him his system. Exposing him? This again is speculation that has taken a life of it's own and is now assumed to be fact. I feel He is simply trying to teach him how to be a leader and how to play team ball. We all know Marbs is lacking in these areas. I have had players like this. As a coach I don't react like a fan and think because the guy is not a leader and has some flaws that means he's a jerk and needs to be exposed or traded at all costs. It means I will teach him and continue to teach him until he causes me a problem or he is traded. This is the same thing he has taught all his PG's. LB is going to stick to his system. IF he gets a true PG I'm sure he will be happy to move Marbs to SG. If Marbs gets it he will be happy as well. Coach's don't care who it is, as long as it's somebody.

Until I hear Brown say something bad about him (all he has done is defend him so far) I'm just not going to go into all the conspiracy theories. LB has had problems with every PG he has ever coached why should I think this situation is different.

All I know is that every day in the papers there is a new picture with Marbs' head in a towel. One picture had Allan Houston in the background. Yet everyone is buying into this nonsense that all of a sudden Marbs has turned into a disaster. He is the same guy he has always been. Maybe a little angrier, but why not, he is being targeted by everyone as the reason for our failures even though 2/5 of our starting line-up has given us nothing, our SF can't shoot outside of 15 feet, our PF is 80 and our bench are good but erratic players. It's the whole system and yet all we do is search for reasons to say it's Marb's fault. It's everyone
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12/28/2005  1:28 PM
This will be my last post on the subject till the game or after. I'll give you guys a rest...

I think Marbury has an 'all alone' persecution complex, as represented in the quote from this summer (below) that follows him wherever he goes. And some of you buy into it with all the media conspiracy theories, or that he's just hated by message board degenerates who know nothing of the sport and are looking for faces on Mars.

"I'm still here," Marbury said during a gathering of reporters at Basketball City in Manhattan. "They want me to go on a bad team so they can continue to drag me," said Marbury, who was presiding over his basketball camp at Chelsea Piers in Manhattan. "But it's cool, though....I ain't going nowhere, and I'm still going to play the same way I play. You know, they want me to get traded now because things are getting good. Same things that happened at every other team I was on. As soon as everybody started being players, then I get the boot. But I got somebody that's on my side now. And I think people, they can't deal with that, knowing that Isiah and I are close."

He takes no responsibility for his situations, and some of you would have it that way too.

I think it's heartwarming that so many of you want him to work out here and are willing to give him all the opportunities to do so; and that's fine. But I'd feel better about it if you'd first acknowledge his problems and demend he deal with them rather than portraying the whole thing as some irrational witch hunt.

If the onus is on Steph to get it together, or to put an end game on things where he's moved if he doesn't, the team has a change to become something. If you're gonna keep portraying his plight as some irrational witch hunt against a poor persecuted steph where fans and coaches need to adapt to an inflexible him, that would be "fools gold", and little sustained good would come of it.
Bippity10
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12/28/2005  1:29 PM
think about it.

If Marbs ignores Brown he is not a team player and a detriment to the team(rightfully so). But if he follows Brown's system than he is somehow trying to purposely expose Brown's system and show him it doesn't work. No matter what Marbs does he loses. It's lunacy all the conspiracy theories that are now proven as fact. I prefer to sit back and just let the guy play.

If Brown goes with the young guys than he has given up on Marbs. If he goes with the old guys he is trying to expose Marbs and get him traded. One conspiracy theory after another.

I'm going to tell you right now. A week from now I will subtly start a thread about somehting I heard or saw Marbury do. I guarantee you a week after that it will be considered fact on this site.
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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12/28/2005  1:33 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

think about it.

I'm going to tell you right now. A week from now I will subtly start a thread about somehting I heard or saw Marbury do. I guarantee you a week after that it will be considered fact on this site.

I don't know about that, but this business about Marbs eating with his elbows on the table... That's UNACCEPTABLE!
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