[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Taking This Season WAY Too Seriously...
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 6 of 7 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6  7 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
11/25/2005  6:05 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I don't get why everyone had such high expectations for this year. Last season the Knicks were a 30win basketball team who needed youth and a top coach to get them back on the right track, so what did Isiah do? He went out and got us youth and a top coach. Did he also get Big Game, yeah he did and it sucks oh well what can you do. I just don't see how anyone here can expect the Knicks to be that much better than they are. You wanna see they should have won 1 or 2 more games? Fine that puts them at 4-7 or 5-6 at best. These are the kind of records that teams that have 3 rookies in their rotation and a new coach who is coaching a few players who were added to this team BEFORE he was brought aboard. Hiring Larry Brown meant that there was going to be a fundamental offense instilled to this team, that means guys like Marbury and Crawford, both of whom are extremely important to this offense, have to learn fundamentals. There is no way you can blame these guys for not knowing fundamentals, the NBA has evolved in the last 10-15 years into a league based on athleticism and ridiculous offensive And-1 moves. This factor and having 3 rookies in the rotation who have to learn to adjust to the NBA makes for a long season. I said many times before on this board, I think the Knicks are going to be a really tough team to beat at the end of the year when the players have adjusted to Larrys system and the rookies have adjusted to the style of the NBA. Will this be too late for a playoff run? Probably, but the Knicks are going to show you at the end of this year a million reasons to be happy for next year.

Anyone who was expecting alot more what the Knicks are doing isn't thinking straight. I don't wanna hear about the payroll and I don't wanna hear about "well Isiah signed Big Game" so the intention is for the Knicks to win this year" No. thats not right. Big Game was signed to a 5YEAR contract and I think he will fill a very important role for Larry Brown at the end of this year and in the coming years. If he doesnt then fine, its his own fault, but he has the skills and tendancies to play in Larry's system becuase Big Game plays D and Larry loves D. This is the team Larry was given to start to make headway into rebuilding. He's going to pick players he likes and he's going to pick players he dislikes. When theres someone he dislikes he's going to be gone for someone he likes. It's that simple and Knicks management has the utmost confidence that Larry will CONTINUE to do his job and he's going to do it like he has everywhere else... In the end there will be wins and ALOT of them.


LOL. the Knicks got Curry QRich the 8th pick in the draft a full MLE to jerome James, Larry brown ----spent another 150mm$--to stay neutral. You dont spend ANOTHER 150mm to endeavor for 30 wins, but you can rationalize it anyway you want guns. Most teams who have picks 21 and 30 dont even count them as we shouldnt either--they are bonuses if they play well.
RIP Crushalot😞
AUTOADVERT
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
11/25/2005  6:09 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

LOL. the Knicks got Curry QRich the 8th pick in the draft a full MLE to jerome James, Larry brown ----spent another 150mm$--to stay neutral. You dont spend ANOTHER 150mm to endeavor for 30 wins, but you can rationalize it anyway you want guns. Most teams who have picks 21 and 30 dont even count them as we shouldnt either--they are bonuses if they play well.

First off, I'm not Guns. Second of all, why do all of you think that all the moves were made ONLY for this year? If hiring Larry Brown who even when he's hired that it's going to be a long road ahead. Not everyone is as short-sighted as you guys, some moves are made for the FUTURE, like having 3 first round draft picks in your rotation. You guys are still all caught up in the money aspect of things when infact DOLAN DOESN'T CARE.

But like you said Briggs, most teams that pick players in the 21 and 30 range so the Knicks shouldnt count on them, well, why are you surprised their record is 3-8? Your opinion on this whole matter will change in about 5 days anyway so from you its taking it with a grain of salt.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-25-2005 6:09 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
11/25/2005  6:17 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If you're gonna cry over a 3-8 start, you'll never make it through the rebuilding process of any team.

What exactly is the correlation?
I thought that when the majority of your players are youngsters 20 to 25 (many 20-22) and you have a new coach with a new system, someone with the patience for rebuilding would wait more than 11 games to view the rebuilding status as a disaster. Maybe that was a crazy notion on my part.


Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
11/25/2005  6:19 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BRIGGS:

LOL. the Knicks got Curry QRich the 8th pick in the draft a full MLE to jerome James, Larry brown ----spent another 150mm$--to stay neutral. You dont spend ANOTHER 150mm to endeavor for 30 wins, but you can rationalize it anyway you want guns. Most teams who have picks 21 and 30 dont even count them as we shouldnt either--they are bonuses if they play well.

First off, I'm not Guns. Second of all, why do all of you think that all the moves were made ONLY for this year? If hiring Larry Brown who even when he's hired that it's going to be a long road ahead. Not everyone is as short-sighted as you guys, some moves are made for the FUTURE, like having 3 first round draft picks in your rotation. You guys are still all caught up in the money aspect of things when infact DOLAN DOESN'T CARE.

But like you said Briggs, most teams that pick players in the 21 and 30 range so the Knicks shouldnt count on them, well, why are you surprised their record is 3-8? Your opinion on this whole matter will change in about 5 days anyway so from you its taking it with a grain of salt.



[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-25-2005 6:09 PM]
Thanks; that put a on my face. I thought I was the only one who thought they were being short-sighted.


[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 11-25-2005 6:19 PM]
SlimPack
Posts: 23588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Member: #1009
USA
11/25/2005  6:48 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I don't get why everyone had such high expectations for this year. Last season the Knicks were a 30win basketball team who needed youth and a top coach to get them back on the right track, so what did Isiah do? He went out and got us youth and a top coach. Did he also get Big Game, yeah he did and it sucks oh well what can you do. I just don't see how anyone here can expect the Knicks to be that much better than they are. You wanna say they should have won 1 or 2 more games? Fine that puts them at 4-7 or 5-6 at best. These are the kind of records that teams that have 3 rookies in their rotation and a new coach who is coaching a few players who were added to this team BEFORE he was brought aboard. Hiring Larry Brown meant that there was going to be a fundamental offense instilled to this team, that means guys like Marbury and Crawford, both of whom are extremely important to this offense, have to learn fundamentals. There is no way you can blame these guys for not knowing fundamentals, the NBA has evolved in the last 10-15 years into a league based on athleticism and ridiculous offensive And-1 moves. This factor and having 3 rookies in the rotation who have to learn to adjust to the NBA makes for a long season. I said many times before on this board, I think the Knicks are going to be a really tough team to beat at the end of the year when the players have adjusted to Larrys system and the rookies have adjusted to the style of the NBA. Will this be too late for a playoff run? Probably, but the Knicks are going to show you at the end of this year a million reasons to be happy for next year. Obviously the players could get it earlier and make a run but I don't see it that way. I'll be extremely happy if it does. I'm not interested in making the playoffs just to make the playoffs, I want to get there and make some noise and Larry will get us there.

Anyone who was expecting alot more what the Knicks are doing isn't thinking straight. I don't wanna hear about the payroll and I don't wanna hear about "well Isiah signed Big Game" so the intention is for the Knicks to win this year" No. thats not right. Big Game was signed to a 5YEAR contract and I think he will fill a very important role for Larry Brown at the end of this year and in the coming years. If he doesnt then fine, its his own fault, but he has the skills and tendancies to play in Larry's system becuase Big Game plays D and Larry loves D. This is the team Larry was given to start to make headway into rebuilding. He's going to pick players he likes and he's going to pick players he dislikes. When theres someone he dislikes he's going to be gone for someone he likes. It's that simple and Knicks management has the utmost confidence that Larry will CONTINUE to do his job and he's going to do it like he has everywhere else... In the end there will be wins and ALOT of them.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-25-2005 6:00 PM]

but what about the payroll? heh heh j/k

but seriously, if isiah thought that this would be a lottery team this year, than why would he trade away our lottery pick? eddy curry isnt that much better than sweetney (in fact sweetney is currently putting up even better #'s than curry), if trading for eddy curry won't change our lottery team status than why give a player with comparable abilites and our only compensation for BEING a lottery team in exchange for him? and dont even get me started about the heart condition thing, but at least that seems to be a nonfactor as more time passes without incident.







[Edited by - slimpack on 11-25-2005 6:51 PM]
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
11/25/2005  7:04 PM
Posted by SlimPack:


but what about the payroll? heh heh j/k

but seriously, if isiah thought that this would be a lottery team this year, than why would he trade away our lottery pick? eddy curry isnt that much better than sweetney (in fact sweetney is currently putting up even better #'s than curry), if trading for eddy curry won't change our lottery team status than why give a player with comparable abilites and our only compensation for BEING a lottery team in exchange for him? and dont even get me started about the heart condition thing, but at least that seems to be a nonfactor as more time passes without incident.
[Edited by - slimpack on 11-25-2005 6:51 PM]

That's a fine argument Slimpack, but I just don't think that way. I was a big Sweetney supporter but the fact is, he didn't show enough when he was here with the Knicks and when Isiah had the chance to get a player like Eddy Curry back who IS NOT a undersized PF like Sweetney is and has the ability to post 20/10 numbers in his career for a long time, he had to make the trade. In no way do I think Curry and Sweetney have comparable abilities, while Sweetney is the better rebounder, Curry is a much more dominant player in the post and his rebounding numbers aren't that far off from what Sweetney is doing. Yeah, Sweetney has posted some pretty good numbers this year 13 and 9 while Eddy is averaging a bit lower then that but he's also played injured with that calf problem for awhile. Curry too me is worth the risk of potential draft picks, especially with the new age rule where it waters down the draft SOME, not alot but some and the Knicks would have ended up drafting in the 8-13 range. I don't think Sweetney is a better player then Curry even right now in the NBA and I think his ceiling is alot lower then what Curry's is, even if Curry never reaches his full potential, I still think he's going to be a 10X better player then Sweets and he'll be the Knicks starting Center for the next 10 years.

I think its a great sign that Isiah was out scouting at the Maui Invitational becuase it shows that he's got his eyes on the draft still and I'll bet that he ends up getting the Knicks a 1st rounder or 2 before the year is over.




[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-25-2005 7:05 PM]
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BRIGGS
Posts: 53275
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 7/30/2002
Member: #303
11/25/2005  8:41 PM
i wouldve traded curry for sweetney and if it came down to it thrown in lee. giving what possibly could be two lottery picks is insane, terrible business and leaves the NY Knicks terribly vulnerable if we have poor seasons. And that alone shows you what Knicks management felt, that Curry was a precursor to the playoffs. they didnt think for one minute with James Q Frye and Curry that we would sck. David Lee went 30th for a reason, he is not anwyeher near lottery talent. Channing Frye is lottery talent and we lose the ability to improve the team if we stink the next two. some people truly believe we can just hike payroll 25% each year, they dont unerstand that its not possible.
eddie Curry's a good player and can get better, but he's no Dwight Howard Lebron James et al--hes two tiers below. hes not emeka okafor
RIP Crushalot😞
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30255
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
11/25/2005  9:32 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

i wouldve traded curry for sweetney and if it came down to it thrown in lee. giving what possibly could be two lottery picks is insane, terrible business and leaves the NY Knicks terribly vulnerable if we have poor seasons. And that alone shows you what Knicks management felt, that Curry was a precursor to the playoffs. they didnt think for one minute with James Q Frye and Curry that we would sck. David Lee went 30th for a reason, he is not anwyeher near lottery talent. Channing Frye is lottery talent and we lose the ability to improve the team if we stink the next two. some people truly believe we can just hike payroll 25% each year, they dont unerstand that its not possible.
eddie Curry's a good player and can get better, but he's no Dwight Howard Lebron James et al--hes two tiers below. hes not emeka okafor


Good points Briggs. Both sides have valid pts. From what we have seen its not looking good. But also its only 11 games. If by the last month Frye,Curry,Lee are tearing it up but we have a losing season it wouldn't be too bad. Its also not impossible to acquire draft picks.

We need a go to guard/forward to bring it together. Penny & M.Rose for Jalen Rose and Mo Pete???
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
11/25/2005  10:14 PM
Episode III, return of the snit
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
11/25/2005  11:23 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If you're gonna cry over a 3-8 start, you'll never make it through the rebuilding process of any team.

What exactly is the correlation?
I thought that when the majority of your players are youngsters 20 to 25 (many 20-22) and you have a new coach with a new system, someone with the patience for rebuilding would wait more than 11 games to view the rebuilding status as a disaster. Maybe that was a crazy notion on my part.


That's nice but that just explains the first part of your little hypothesis. Whats the correlation between that and being able to make it through the rebuilding of any team?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30255
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
11/26/2005  1:11 AM
We could blame managment because its not working. But this unit is cappable of winning games. Not letting them run is hurting. We gotta run the offense through the guards Crawford-Richardson-Marbury. Let Curry get his off of dump offs, put backs, alley oops, and when he got a clear mismatch in size. And run run run run whenever Rose,and Davis are not in which should be the majority of the time. Robinson, Ariza, Lee fastbreak offense. Run the set plays through Frye and Marbury or Crawford or Richardson. Whoever is the SG at that moment. Brown was said to be known for adapting to his teams. This is a team that needs to run. His fear is the transition defense though thats why he don't want to run. This team is cappable of winning more games if he decided to play the way they are constructed. But do we question Brown with his track record?? Is Brown giving lessons that will make us a very strong team down the road?? Or will he just push for trades for players that fit his style instead of adapting???
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
11/26/2005  1:18 AM
oh shutup about sweetney.

he puts up just about the most undominant 15 and 10 i've ever seen.

he's a freakin role player for christ's sake.

curry has the potential to be the most dominant Big man in the league.

Sweetney has the potential to be the next Shawn Kemp (Cleveland/Portland Fatass Years)

[Edited by - bobs3304 on 11-26-2005 01:21 AM]
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30255
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
11/26/2005  1:31 AM
Forgot to add. Ariza put up 21pts 11rebs when we played vs Pheniox in there uptempo style last yr.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
11/26/2005  1:38 AM
Posted by fishmike:

Episode III, return of the snit
I'm sorry I hurt you so much that you had to resort to childish name-calling!

Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
11/26/2005  2:23 AM
curry has the potential to be the most dominant Big man in the league.

How on Earth do you believe that? So you think he'll be more dominant than Duncan, Shaq, Emeka, Dwight, Amare, Camby, snd Big Ben, when he's not even a better player than Channing Frye right now. In fact Channing is a lot better at this point. He has not shown he is going to be near the most dominant player in the league, when his passing is horrible, his defense is bad, he remains out of shape (When he had the WHOLE SUMMER to work out at least a little) and he can't even finish around the basket after getting fouled. Mike Sweetney gets more AND 1s than Curry. What? That's right, I said it. Mike Sweetney finishes around the basket better than Eddie Curry.

I'm not saying Curry wont be a very good player around the league, but the word "Potential" in many eyes means "You suck now but can be real good later." I just don't see the potential in him to be the most dominant big man in the league. Maybe one of the better big men, but certainly not the best.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
11/26/2005  9:53 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If you're gonna cry over a 3-8 start, you'll never make it through the rebuilding process of any team.

What exactly is the correlation?
I thought that when the majority of your players are youngsters 20 to 25 (many 20-22) and you have a new coach with a new system, someone with the patience for rebuilding would wait more than 11 games to view the rebuilding status as a disaster. Maybe that was a crazy notion on my part.


That's nice but that just explains the first part of your little hypothesis. Whats the correlation between that and being able to make it through the rebuilding of any team?


Still waiting Bonnie. You've made this statement more than once so I'm assuming it wasn't an off the cuff remark and you can explain it to the rest of us. What does one have to do with the other?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
11/26/2005  10:11 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If you're gonna cry over a 3-8 start, you'll never make it through the rebuilding process of any team.

What exactly is the correlation?
I thought that when the majority of your players are youngsters 20 to 25 (many 20-22) and you have a new coach with a new system, someone with the patience for rebuilding would wait more than 11 games to view the rebuilding status as a disaster. Maybe that was a crazy notion on my part.


That's nice but that just explains the first part of your little hypothesis. Whats the correlation between that and being able to make it through the rebuilding of any team?


Still waiting Bonnie. You've made this statement more than once so I'm assuming it wasn't an off the cuff remark and you can explain it to the rest of us. What does one have to do with the other?
Wow; I never saw someone beg so desperately for a reply. I'm flattered. What part don't you understand? You seem to be the only one confused.
islesfan
Posts: 9999
Alba Posts: 37
Joined: 7/19/2004
Member: #712
11/26/2005  10:34 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:

If you're gonna cry over a 3-8 start, you'll never make it through the rebuilding process of any team.

What exactly is the correlation?
I thought that when the majority of your players are youngsters 20 to 25 (many 20-22) and you have a new coach with a new system, someone with the patience for rebuilding would wait more than 11 games to view the rebuilding status as a disaster. Maybe that was a crazy notion on my part.


That's nice but that just explains the first part of your little hypothesis. Whats the correlation between that and being able to make it through the rebuilding of any team?


Still waiting Bonnie. You've made this statement more than once so I'm assuming it wasn't an off the cuff remark and you can explain it to the rest of us. What does one have to do with the other?
Wow; I never saw someone beg so desperately for a reply. I'm flattered. What part don't you understand? You seem to be the only one confused.


Huh? Not sure why you would consider that begging especially since you've done the same thing, multiple times. Unless you'd like to admit that you've begged people for responses on a regular basis. I for one would be very flattered by this.

So answer the question please. Why do think that if people can't accept this one then they can't accept any?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
OldFan
Posts: 21456
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2003
Member: #446
11/26/2005  10:45 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

We could blame managment because its not working. But this unit is cappable of winning games. Not letting them run is hurting. We gotta run the offense through the guards Crawford-Richardson-Marbury. Let Curry get his off of dump offs, put backs, alley oops, and when he got a clear mismatch in size. And run run run run whenever Rose,and Davis are not in which should be the majority of the time. Robinson, Ariza, Lee fastbreak offense. Run the set plays through Frye and Marbury or Crawford or Richardson. Whoever is the SG at that moment. Brown was said to be known for adapting to his teams. This is a team that needs to run. His fear is the transition defense though thats why he don't want to run. This team is cappable of winning more games if he decided to play the way they are constructed. But do we question Brown with his track record?? Is Brown giving lessons that will make us a very strong team down the road?? Or will he just push for trades for players that fit his style instead of adapting???


I gotta disagree. This team may learn to run but it is not set up to run now. To run you need good decision makers - who are they? Marbs has never been great at leading a break, craw's biggest problem is bad decisions, Nate - maybe someday but not now. We have some guys who can run - but no one to lead the break. Plus if you run your defense had to be even better. Sorry there are no easy answers. It's gonna take time and maybe some changes.
fishmike
Posts: 53902
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
11/26/2005  10:52 AM
I based my expectations on what management sold to us. If they were going to play a bunch of kids and promises of the future I wouldnt care and just hope guys get better. But they didnt. They added guys that have been in the league 4-5 years. They spent $30mm on a 30 year old insurance policy. They spent $8mm a year to bring in Curry and $10mm a year on a coach to get this group to win. On top of it they traded away any chance at lottery talent we might have in the next 2 years. What does that tell you?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Page 6 of 7 « First‹ Previous 4  5  6  7 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Taking This Season WAY Too Seriously...
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy