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Ariza is becoming a star before our eyes
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tkf
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11/8/2005  2:33 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Don't you get it Fish, if one person breaks out into a star at age 22 then it stands to reason that a 20 year old with inferior skills will automatically be expected to make that same jump by the time they're 22.

In fact, my 2 year old nephew is already dribbling a basketball better than Marion did when he was 2 so it stands to reason that he will break out into a 18/10 NBA player when he turns 22.

rv, you have to improve 5 levels just to get to stupid.

argh.. even for an overexaggeration, that was pretty lame... but I see you guys point, I think ariza is being overrated a bit here, but on the other hand you guys are also overrating marion, who I remember clearly at UNLV and his first two years in the league, had a suspect handle and a bad jumper... That was a big topic with suns fans on the realgm boards some years ago, I remember well.... Ariza may never be more than a role player, but to deny that he does not have the skills to be a lover level allstar, is ridiculous... We use marion as a measuring stick, because they are pretty similar, athletic, 6'8, etc.... I think that is a pretty fair thing to do.. Now all of a sudden marion is too good to aspire for, from our ariza.. that is even more ridiculous, marion has just as many flaws in his game, just look at him in the olympics... His game looked like swiss cheese...

lets give ariza time, we can go from there, until then I am happy with what we have...




[Edited by - tkf on 11-08-2005 2:42 PM]
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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rvhoss
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11/8/2005  2:35 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

does it really matter who's better than who?!?!?!
NOPE!
i mean come on fellas, this is a stupid argument.

ariza is 20 years old and he's putting up good #'s without a single play called for him. his entire game is built on hustle and he makes an impact on the game.

is he a star? is he an all star? is he the next matrix? WHO GIVES A FLYING F CK!!!

HE'S OURS ALREADY!!!! let's just sit back and watch him develop.

shawn marion is a 10x better player than robert horry, yet horry has all the bling. who cares?!?!?

Hey, I was just sitting on my couch and thinking about how good a game Ariza had and thought, he may be becoming a star before our eyes, an actual homegrown talent on the knicks, so I posted it...then fishy came raining in my parade to say NO WAY (just for the goof, because he knows so much about basketball)

I was just saying, for a 20 year old kid that has no plays run for him, he's got a nose for the ball and is RAW.

I probably should have put a question mark in the thread title, but i figured it was a knick board and people would run with it...but I forgot that isles likes to target usernames, not subjects and fish is just...well...you guys all know fishy.

Just give Reezy some props and move on.

jeez.



all kool aid all the time.
islesfan
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11/8/2005  2:42 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

Hey, I was just sitting on my couch and thinking about how good a game Ariza had and thought, he may be becoming a star before our eyes, an actual homegrown talent on the knicks, so I posted it...then fishy came raining in my parade to say NO WAY (just for the goof, because he knows so much about basketball)

I was just saying, for a 20 year old kid that has no plays run for him, he's got a nose for the ball and is RAW.

I probably should have put a question mark in the thread title, but i figured it was a knick board and people would run with it...but I forgot that isles likes to target usernames, not subjects and fish is just...well...you guys all know fishy.

Just give Reezy some props and move on.

jeez.


Stop playing the victim already. It's unseemly for a man of your considerable clas....oh wait, nevermind.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
rvhoss
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11/8/2005  2:44 PM
ha ha ha. now that was fun...oh wait, nevermind.

Back to basketball...they tried to start reezy last year and it didn't pan out...LB mentioned that he is going to whittle it down to an 8/9 man rotation.

marbs, craw, q, reezy, lee, frye, nate, curry...That's 8.

Who is the 9?
all kool aid all the time.
djsunyc
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11/8/2005  2:44 PM
probably AD.
rvhoss
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11/8/2005  2:50 PM
I think it could be barnes...this quote was telling:

Brown can't tell you which players are certain to play but he did give an idea of what type of players will be involved: mentally and physically tough ones who play hard and defend.

On Sunday, Brown singled out several players who fit that profile: Trevor Ariza, Matt Barnes, Antonio Davis and the three rookies.
That's 6
Intentionally or not, Brown didn't name Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Quentin Richardson, Malik Rose and James.
I'm going to assume his next 2 to 3 are marbs, jamal and Q.

That would make us all very very happy. But where's curry?

I think barnes will eventually be the odd man out, but it could be AD being odd man out (especially if we keep losing with him in the game)
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PhilinLA
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11/8/2005  3:04 PM
I think he'll keep improving. He has a lot of pride.
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Bonn1997
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11/8/2005  3:31 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Be quiet. We're not allowed to predict any improvement in any aspects of Ariza's offensive skills. 20 year olds don't improve. Fish said it earlier.
ahh yes. When in doubt make up something stupid. 7312, 7313, 7314...
I learned that from you with your Jerome James comments!
fishmike
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11/8/2005  3:47 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

Exactly, 6233, 6234, 6235...
Posted by fishmike:
Be quiet. We're not allowed to predict any improvement in any aspects of Ariza's offensive skills. 20 year olds don't improve. Fish said it earlier.
ahh yes. When in doubt make up something stupid. 7312, 7313, 7314...




[Edited by - rvhoss on 11-08-2005 1:23 PM]
LOL... still not sure who your girlfriend is?


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newyorknewyork
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11/8/2005  4:03 PM
just the fact that we drafted him ourselves out of the 2nd rd. If we get to keep him for 10yrs and he develops into a solid player. I would be satisfied. There was a time when Charlie Ward was the only player on our team that we drafted ourselves. While im hoping he turns into more, he was drafted in the 2nd rd so we shouldn't put to high expectations on him just yet. But if by the end of this yr, and all next season he brings his game to new levels then maybe he is a star in the making. But right now while he has shown some. He hasn't shown enough to truly be called a future star.
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technomaster
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11/9/2005  12:12 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mariosh01.html

For the record... in his rookie year, Marion averaged 10.2ppg/6.5rpg in 24.7 minutes. He was 21. In his 1 year (he transfered from JUCO) at UNLV, he averaged 18.7ppg/9.3rpg.

Ariza, on the other hand, was 19 last season. It's a little tough to compare with such a small sample size this season (3 games), but Ariza is averaging 8ppg/5.3rpg in 25.0 minutes so far. Who knows how his minutes will pan out as the season goes on, but he looks like he has the presence of an NBA starter. His development in college was limited by his asthma and his collapsed lung, so perhaps that chronic condition will eventually limit his upside somewhat.

Marion is a unique talent in the NBA--- he's one of a select few players in the last decade to average over 10rpg multiple times in his career at his listed height (6'7). Ariza is officially listed at 6'8". Also note that Marion's 3pt range didn't come around until his 4th season. Up until that point, Marion was essentially Cedric Ceballos + defense--- a garbage-point scoring dunker.

Ariza certainly has upside... but we can't really predict when he'll stop improving at a rapid rate. Sometimes the late bloomers make better players in the end vs those who leave college 100% polished and have little upside left (think someone like Shane Battier).
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:

forget about pros, I'm talking about college players. If you saw Marion in college, or Igodala you would see what I am talking about. If anything Ariza is BEHIND those guys, not ahead. Maybe he eventually catches them but it appears he's got to learn skills that those guys had when they were recruited out of HS
How's he behind Marion when he's more productive on both ends of the court at age 20 than Marion was at age 21?
are you serious? are you serious? Marion was a monster at UNLV and by his 2nd year in the pros he was like 18/10. Get real.


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EnySpree
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11/9/2005  12:33 PM
why is this thread so long?

Ariza can't dribble and he can't score on his own merits unless it's off a rebound, he is open, or the free throw line.

20 years old? After a year he has gotten alot stronger as far as muscle. Next year I wanna see him put the ball on the floor.

Anybody check out Gerald Wallace before he hurt his head? Wallace looks scary.....why? cuz he developed a way to create offense and score on his own.

After that as he gets older the jumper will eventually come cuz he won't be able to dunk it like he does now.

Work on your ball handling Trev!!!!
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Pharzeone
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11/9/2005  1:09 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

why is this thread so long?

Ariza can't dribble and he can't score on his own merits unless it's off a rebound, he is open, or the free throw line.

20 years old? After a year he has gotten alot stronger as far as muscle. Next year I wanna see him put the ball on the floor.

Anybody check out Gerald Wallace before he hurt his head? Wallace looks scary.....why? cuz he developed a way to create offense and score on his own.

After that as he gets older the jumper will eventually come cuz he won't be able to dunk it like he does now.

Work on your ball handling Trev!!!!

Maybe I missing something EnySpree, because I watched Ariza get about 3 steals and lead fastbreaks. He look ok, handling the ball to me. btw, he had some great assist in that Warrior game. Especially that bounced past to Frye. I think he is about the only guy who actually tries to get Frye the ball in good spots.

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attaboy2005
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11/9/2005  1:18 PM
Why all of this nonsense about what Ariza can't do and focus on what he has shown he can do(Defense, Hustle, Rebound) and what work he is doing on improving his game(Shooting FG's and FT's, Dribbling, and Passing). The Kid is only 20 for christ sake, he is showing improvement on aspects of his game and willing to work hard at the rest of his game, the kid is showing remarkable poise and willing ddo to what it takes to make the team better and himself at the same time.
How can you find fault with that?.
EnySpree
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11/9/2005  1:19 PM
It's not about passing. I'm talking about ball handling.





[Edited by - enyspree on 11-09-2005 1:19 PM]
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Knight
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11/9/2005  1:27 PM
Who needs to dribble when you can fly baby!

"He only went to Georgia Tech for one year, and that's an engineering school." -LB
fishmike
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11/9/2005  1:38 PM
also on fast breaks he's dribbled off his foot and got rejected by the rim.

Anyway Marion is a totally different player than Ariza. I'm happy to see Ariza just improve on what he already does well. He passes well, is a GREAT rebounder, can defend, play the lanes and crash the glass.

Ben Wallace went from doing a couple things well to doing those things SO well he became a star. Maybe Ariza becomes an all NBA defender and gets you 10-12 boards a night at the 3.
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EWING33BXNY
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11/10/2005  9:51 AM
ARIZA is trash. CAN'T SHOOT, CAN'T DRIBBLE!!! ALL I ASK IS FOR HIM TO HIT THE OPEN 15 FOOTER.

SO WHAT IF YOU CAN FLY, DOESN'T MEAN CRAP. WE NEED SCORING NOT HIGHLIGHT REELS.

Whatever happen to fundamentals???

Damn, I'm really pissed this morning.
Allanfan20
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11/10/2005  9:56 AM
For the record, as a player I love Ariza. Just b/c I don't think he's Marion/Jefferson, doesn't mean I dislike him or think he sucks. He'll be real good for us. I just don't think it will be quite at the same level as Marion/Jefferson.
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EWING33BXNY
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11/10/2005  10:01 AM
He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as a Marion/Jefferson. I mean how many athletic players we need.

Hmmmmm, can we look for a shooter instead of an athlete.
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Ariza is becoming a star before our eyes
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