Posted by diderotn:

He ran the show nicely when he was in Phoenix,,,why would he fail playing with a very good cast in N.Y.????

it remains to be seen if its a good cast or a collection of potential that never lives up to it with Curry at the forefront. Damn I wish Curry was as good as Amare & Marion. Looks like Frye might be the one who's closer to being as good as those 2

Posted by McK1:

yeah great research. now lets look at how each pg's presence affected their teams performance.

for you stat worshippers

with each respective point guard on the court this is how the team fared:

player ........net per 48 .........net total
Steve Nash .........+12.4 .........+662
Chauncey billups .....+ 5.9 .....+352
Jamal Tinsley .......+3.7 .......+101
Mike Bibby .........+2.7 .........+175
Baron Davis .........+5.1 .........+104
Sam Cassell .........+4.0 .........+127
Jason Kidd .........+4.0 .........+237
Stephon Marbury ....-0.4 ....-28

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-23-2005 9:03 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-23-2005 9:07 PM]

Look at those players plus minus on/off court #s. That's much more revealing than just looking at the #s when they're on the court. You can't expect the Knicks to fare as well with Marbury on the court and mediocre role players last year at the other four positions as the Wolves fared with Cassell on the court and Spree and KG also on the court; as the Nets fared with Kidd on the court and RJ and Carter also on the court. That's just sad spin.

Posted by Silverfuel:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Nixluva, thats one hell of a post. Excellent research. I never even though about looking up the Shots Per Game that other teammates got while playing with Stephon. It really shows that his 8 APG average isnt just hogwash, it's attributed to amount of times he does pass ball. The FGA to Assists is also very telling, geez look at Iversons... 24.7 to 8! thats ridiculous.

agreed. awesome research nixluva.

Agreed; that's really impressive. FGA to assist ratio is actually a very interesting one that I hadn't thought to look at, but it gives a great idea of whether the player is a shoot/score first vs. pass first PG.

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by McK1:

yeah great research. now lets look at how each pg's presence affected their teams performance.

for you stat worshippers

with each respective point guard on the court this is how the team fared:

player ........net per 48 .........net total
Steve Nash .........+12.4 .........+662
Chauncey billups .....+ 5.9 .....+352
Jamal Tinsley .......+3.7 .......+101
Mike Bibby .........+2.7 .........+175
Baron Davis .........+5.1 .........+104
Sam Cassell .........+4.0 .........+127
Jason Kidd .........+4.0 .........+237
Stephon Marbury ....-0.4 ....-28

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-23-2005 9:03 PM]

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-23-2005 9:07 PM]

Look at those players plus minus on/off court #s. That's much more revealing than just looking at the #s when they're on the court. You can't expect the Knicks to fare as well with Marbury on the court and mediocre role players last year at the other four positions as the Wolves fared with Cassell on the court and Spree and KG also on the court; as the Nets fared with Kidd on the court and RJ and Carter also on the court. That's just sad spin.

it was RJ or Carter with Kidd. RJ got hurt mid-season. Krstic came on late but basically they went 2 on 5 for most of the season and still managed to win 42 games after a horrible start.

The players on NY weren't as bad as you and others here try to make them out to be. NY definitely had a better team 1-12 than NJ. With the exception of Timmy, noone on NY had a bad individual season. Even TT picked up his scoring after January. there was something else going on.

And 1 more thing ot considered when you guys did your fg attempts to assists is the amount of free throws taken.

Steph shot 549 for a 6.7 avg. lets say 2 shots per foul leaving the .7 for and ones. add 3 more shot attempts per putting him at 18.9 fga's per game.

You can add 3 more fgas for Marbury Arenas and Davis; Bibby 2; Everyone else - 1.

[Edited by - McK1 on 10-23-2005 9:41 PM]

Thats why some people including Brown want to see Crawford at PG because they think he can run the offense better which might work because all he has to do is get MArbury, Curry & Q the ball. It remains to be seen if Crawford can settle down and think pass(to better players than himself) first. I think it can work as long as Crawford gives the ball up which he will do with Larry there. Playing Marbury at PG is a waist because he can't get set up to score. Why put the ball in his hands and force him to score in the clutch only for the defense to shut him down leading to the shotclock almost expiring as he passes to Crawford who then chucks one because he's not a good shooter. Larry Brown really knows what he's doing here and its all the same reasons he moved Iverson to SG. Only to maximize his ability to score. How far we'll get with a 6-2 & 6-5 backcourt remains to be seen. Personally I'd trade Marbury for young, defensive minded players & draft picks so that we can go from a borderline playoff team to a contender

Posted by McK1:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by McK1:

And 1 more thing ot considered when you guys did your fg attempts to assists is the amount of free throws taken.

Steph shot 549 for a 6.7 avg. lets say 2 shots per miss leaving the .7 for and ones. add 3 more shot attempts per putting him at 18.9 fga's per game.

You can add 3 more fgas for Marbury Arenas and Davis; Bibby 2; Everyone else - 1.

I'm not sure I understand... isn't shooting free-throws a good thing?

c'mon you're a smart guy. most times you're going to the line off a shot attempt. free throw attempts don't count as shot attempts. Steph isn't Shaq out there so its safe to assume the majority of the time he went to the line shooting 2. Steph went to the line 549 times. That is an average of 6.7 times per. Its a fair assumption that the 6 fta = 3 shots he got fouled on and miss and the .7 fta for and 1's or shooting technicals. That puts him up there at 19 fga - away from the pack and into the company of other known jocks like Davis and Arenas.



[Edited by - McK1 on 10-23-2005 9:52 PM]

The insults are not necessary, I don't know what forum your coming from but that type of stuff doesn't go down here. If you had noticed, I asked a question to make sure I understood your post instead of just replying without even understanding what you were saying.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 10-23-2005 9:59 PM]

Posted by McK1:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by McK1:

And 1 more thing ot considered when you guys did your fg attempts to assists is the amount of free throws taken.

Steph shot 549 for a 6.7 avg. lets say 2 shots per miss leaving the .7 for and ones. add 3 more shot attempts per putting him at 18.9 fga's per game.

You can add 3 more fgas for Marbury Arenas and Davis; Bibby 2; Everyone else - 1.

I'm not sure I understand... isn't shooting free-throws a good thing?

c'mon you're a smart guy. most times you're going to the line off a shot attempt. free throw attempts don't count as shot attempts. Steph isn't Shaq out there so its safe to assume the majority of the time he went to the line shooting 2. Steph went to the line 549 times. That is an average of 6.7 times per. Its a fair assumption that the 6 fta = 3 shots he got fouled on and miss and the .7 fta for and 1's or shooting technicals. That puts him up there at 19 fga - away from the pack and into the company of other known jocks like Davis and Arenas.



[Edited by - McK1 on 10-23-2005 9:52 PM]

he's not completely at fault for taking all those shots. Because he's our best player the coach wants him to make the plays and that has clearly not worked the past 2yrs. He needs to be set up as did Iverson..end of story and even with Amare & Marion he could only take his team so far as their PG. Phoenix moved him because they wanted someone who can run the offense better and were not going to be paying $18mm a year for a 6-2 SG

nyk. I never saw your original post and insulting you as I responded to what was on screen wasn't my intent. Sorry if you feel I did.

other than using fantasy stats to defend Marbury as opposed to in-game evidence no nothing that was said here was insulting lol

Posted by gunsnewing:

Posted by Bonn1997:

It's a question because people want Jamal to be our PG

it looks like just 1 person wants Crawford to be the PG lol

It's up to 2 people now. Did McK1 vote twice?