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Choosing JYD to waive is dumb! (IT'S OFFICIAL)
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tomverve
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8/15/2005  2:02 PM
I'm struck by the irony that no matter who Isiah chose to waive, there would have been a large bellyaching from some contingent or another. Consider that the reasonable options for waiving were:

Houston
Shamdon
Mo
Rose
JYD

If we waive Houston: "Houston was going to retire anyway... what a stupid move!" or "Now Houston is going to sign with a conference rival... what a stupid move!"

If we waive Shamdon: "We still have 16 players on the roster, so one of them needs to go anyway... But no, we waste the waiver on Shamdon and now we're either forced to waive someone else without the amnesty, or make a desperation 2-for-1 that brings back another terrible contract... What a stupid move!"

If we waive Mo: "God, Isiah traded expiring contracts and a second rounder for this guy, now we let him go for nothing... what a stupid move!"

If we waive Rose: See complaints over JYD.

If we waive JYD: Obvious.

I'm sad to see JYD go. But come on, this is not the end of the world. Were there better options for waiving? Perhaps, but I don't think it's at all obvious which move was the best. As mentioned above, Houston might retire anyway, and if he doesn't, he should be healthy enough to fill a needed role as perimeter sniper. Waiving Shamdon, as mentioned above, would still leave us with a roster glut, someone else would still need to go.

Was Mo the obvious waiver choice? I'm not so sure. He's still our most talented low post scorer and I could see LB finding a useful role for him, a la Corliss Williamson.

Should've waived Rose instead? Not so sure. As technomaster pointed out, while Rose and JYD are similar, Rose is heftier and can legitimately guard centers. That's going to be a valuable asset when Jerome James is off the floor. Frye might be too much of a lightweight to guard the heavier centers at this point in his career.

I made a post recently where I argued that ultimately we should waive Mo. But it's not an easy choice at all, no matter who we waived there was going to be a downside. So Isiah chose JYD, and yes there's a downside and yes we all hate to see him go. But it's not obvious that there was a clearly superior candidate for waivers, and in any case, it ain't the end of the world. Come on, just cuz these are the dog days of summer doesn't mean we have to overreact to everything. In the grand scheme of things, is this a big deal? No, not really. The kind of things JYD brought to the game can be made up for by Rose, Ariza, and Lee. And ultimately, you know JYD wasn't going to last longer than the 2 more guaranteed years left on his deal. Is losing JYD going to be the difference between getting a better seed or not, or the difference between winning a playoff series or not in those 2 years? I highly doubt it. So it's not worth all the bellyaching.
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nyk4ever
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8/15/2005  2:02 PM
Posted by OAK:

They could have waived Shandon's contract now, and if needed waive someone else later.

Between a rotten apple and a perfectly edible apple, I'd throw away the rotten one. That's my analogy (shandon's contract and JYD's).


Thats the best response I've seen on here and I agree with what your thinking Oak, that is a perfectly fine way of looking at it. I just think Isiah waived one of the players instead of the Shandon contract because he wants a roster spot, maybe for Diop. If Dolan doesn't care about the tax on Shandon's contract and doesn't want it gone then I don't think Isiah is going to waive it, especially when he can waive a player and go out and get a better one for the LLE.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
fishmike
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8/15/2005  2:02 PM
Isiah was obviously trying to waive Houston...Dolan has a repore with him. Obviously HOUSTON would be the one to waive. Houston has NEVER said he was retiring. Secondly, Isiah and Shandon are enemies. Why not waive him? Lastly, Brown doesn't like players like Mo, Houston (at this point) and any other player that doesn't defend. Look at larry's career...JYD is the perfect player that he's like to have on the bench for matchups. Now look at Isiah....Isiah's comments "this is the first time I have been identified with a weak defensive team" What does this tell you? Isiah likes defensive minded players. JYD fits the discription. That takes care of two people who would obviously like another defender on the team.......

Who does that leave?
holy crap.. what the hell did you just say? Aside from waiving Shandon being good and Larry Brown liking JYD.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
simrud
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8/15/2005  2:03 PM
yeah, he contributed so much that we won only 33 games.

Going by that logic everybody on last year's team should have been waived.
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nyk4ever
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8/15/2005  2:05 PM
Good post Tom, I don't think anyone is going to agree on this. The best part about this forum is that every single thing that happens in Knick land always forces this forum into 2 factions. Makes for great time spending at work.

In my eyes its not a huge move becuase JYD wasn't going to do much for the team anyway. It's over and done with now.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
gunsnewing
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8/15/2005  2:05 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by tomverve:

The waiving of JYD is truly the end of an era in Knicksland. Expect MSG to explode any day now. I have no link, but the source is solid.

you're right, this isn't an end all be all. but would you say it was the best move to make in this situation? i wouldn't. and that's what upsets me. there are clearly better options and better things for the franchise (waiving, h20, shandon, rose, mo) but we didn't choose the best option. that's what bugs me.



it comes down to keeping the best player and getting the roster spot. Honestly Rose & Taylor were not going to waived because they are more talented and more valuable and it gives Lee & Ariza more minutes. I would've been shocked if Rose was waived. Waiving shandon only says money
rvhoss
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8/15/2005  2:06 PM
This is more like it...I 200% DisAgree with this statement.

What games were you watching last year?

I won't even go into stats:
Rose, 8 points, 4 boards
MoT, 6.5 points, 3.4 boards
JYD, 4.5 points, 3.6 boards
Heck, look even Reezy was better with 6 pts and 3 boards.

You have to stop talking crazy.

JYD wasn't going to be even playing this year. Nate and Reezy and lee will bring the same IF NOT MORE energy off the bench and Rose is JYD with a championship ring and knowledge of Brown's system from San Antonio.

Stop shooting from the lip and think before you post...JYD was the 4th best PF on our team. (possibly 5th after lee)

Also, did you ever think that maybe JYD REQUESTED to be waived? I bet he ends up in Toronto.
Posted by simrud:

players like Rose and Taylor have no use on this team.


all kool aid all the time.
TheloniusMonk
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8/15/2005  2:06 PM
Posted by simrud:
yeah, he contributed so much that we won only 33 games.

Going by that logic everybody on last year's team should have been waived.


The fact is....now that JYD is gone...all is lost. I get it now.
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simrud
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8/15/2005  2:07 PM
Waiving Taylor would at leat deal with a mistake that has been already made. I can deal with that and accept it as a good move its better late then never to realize you were wrong. IT really needs to learn how to deal with non-draft related issues.

He might get better though he did finally hit the homerun with a coach after striking out with Lenny bigtime.
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Masterplan
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8/15/2005  2:08 PM
Posted by simrud:
yeah, he contributed so much that we won only 33 games.

Going by that logic everybody on last year's team should have been waived.

LOL
tkf
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8/15/2005  2:10 PM
JYD is cut...

Another tree falls in the forest...

Whats the big deal!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
OAK
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8/15/2005  2:10 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by OAK:

They could have waived Shandon's contract now, and if needed waive someone else later.

Between a rotten apple and a perfectly edible apple, I'd throw away the rotten one. That's my analogy (shandon's contract and JYD's).


Thats the best response I've seen on here and I agree with what your thinking Oak, that is a perfectly fine way of looking at it. I just think Isiah waived one of the players instead of the Shandon contract because he wants a roster spot, maybe for Diop. If Dolan doesn't care about the tax on Shandon's contract and doesn't want it gone then I don't think Isiah is going to waive it, especially when he can waive a player and go out and get a better one for the LLE.


Thanks, 4.

If Diop is a major upgrade over JYD and he's already in the mix, yeah, I can understand the move. But Diop??? He's just a big body scrub, isn't he? I don't know much about him and his upside. Is he worth all this?
gunsnewing
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8/15/2005  2:11 PM
I liked JYD because his role was minimal and he was effective. Rose on the other hand I'm afraid is going to get a ton of playing time and stun the developement of the younger players just like KT did. He'll average close to a double double because he will be playing 35+mins a night and we'll be a first round playoff exit team for years to come
simrud
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8/15/2005  2:11 PM
This is more like it...I 200% DisAgree with this statement.

What games were you watching last year?

I won't even go into stats:
Rose, 8 points, 4 boards
MoT, 6.5 points, 3.4 boards
JYD, 4.5 points, 3.6 boards
Heck, look even Reezy was better with 6 pts and 3 boards.

You have to stop talking crazy.

JYD wasn't going to be even playing this year. Nate and Reezy and lee will bring the same IF NOT MORE energy off the bench and Rose is JYD with a championship ring and knowledge of Brown's system from San Antonio.

Stop shooting from the lip and think before you post...JYD was the 4th best PF on our team. (possibly 5th after lee)

Also, did you ever think that maybe JYD REQUESTED to be waived? I bet he ends up in Toronto.

You are missign the point, that was LAST YEAR. This year we have added James and Frye who both shold be ahead on the deapth chart, along with Sweetney. That leaves one backup PF spot open to go to either Rose or Taylor. ONE FREAKIN SPOT! Having two gusy to fill on need is retarded man. That is why we should have waived one of them. JYD would prolly only play at SF when matchup asked for it, but at least that is more of a use then being the 5th big in the rotation.
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islesfan
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8/15/2005  2:11 PM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

Why do YOU think Isiah didn't waive Shandon?

Because he's stupid.

extremely intelligent answer Isles. Didn't know you had it in you.


Hey, ask a stupid question...

Besides that comment was a lot more intelligent than anything that you've said on this thread. I think Fish needs you to go over that nonsensical post you made. Maybe you can do that one word for word. Funny how I'm not the only one that doesn't understand you.
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tkf
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8/15/2005  2:12 PM
Posted by simrud:

Taylor sucks and he should have been waived or better yet never traded for. He should never get any play in time over Sweetney or Frye or Rose. Which puts 4 bigs in front of him including James.

JYD we could have actually traed at some point. Taylor is unfreakin movable.

Idiots who liked the Mo Taylor trade manup!!!



yea, in the last year of his deal, about the same time you can trade Taylor. so what is the point? Are you telling me that JYD is moveable now? HA!!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
simrud
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8/15/2005  2:14 PM
The last year of his deal is a year before Taylor's, check your facts before you post. The last year on his contract is a team option, we have been over this like a billion times already.
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TheloniusMonk
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8/15/2005  2:15 PM
Rvhoss:

You're one one of the only people on this thread making sense. Unfortunatley you're waisting your breath. I've realized that this thread is for people who just want to spin their wheels about something that is a non-issue. You're right, these guys would have been up in arms no matter WHO was waived. I guess the best thing is let them be the scorned Knick fans that they are determined to be right now.
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fishmike
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8/15/2005  2:15 PM
Tom.. speak for yourself. Most people around here are willing to understand if not agree with Isiah's moves.

How can you argue with waiving shandon and saving the $$$ ???

Even if we do need the roster spot and you waive JYD after all your STILL saving more money with waiving Shandon because your paying them both anyway.

Dont make this out to be a bunch of malcontents looking for something to crow about. This board isnt like that.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
simrud
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8/15/2005  2:17 PM
This is coming from a guy just posted something that needs to be decoded by a computer in order to be understood just 15 mints ago? Too funny.

If you don't agree with IT you don't make sene, I hope if I'm ever in charge of anything I get this kind of blind support. Its like a freakin cult of personality, IT the great leader of man, Mao, Mussolini, Gandi, now IT
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