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djsunyc
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8/10/2005  4:47 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.
thank you... thats all I am saying. Its hard for some to understand... I get that. I thought we just drafted our center of the future, just wondering why we would spend $30mm to lock up a guy like James who we promised the starting job to.
again, we're NOT tied up with James for 5 years. He can be bought out like Shandon after about 2 years if he doesn't work out. Think of it as a 2 year $10 mil contract with a smaller buyout option than Shandon's contract if for some reason you're obsessed with contract length.

tied up on the books.
we buy out james, then that's just a WASTE of $6 mil on the cap.
AUTOADVERT
jaydh
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8/10/2005  4:50 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.
thank you... thats all I am saying. Its hard for some to understand... I get that. I thought we just drafted our center of the future, just wondering why we would spend $30mm to lock up a guy like James who we promised the starting job to.
again, we're NOT tied up with James for 5 years. He can be bought out like Shandon after about 2 years if he doesn't work out. Think of it as a 2 year $10 mil contract with a smaller buyout option than Shandon's contract if for some reason you're obsessed with contract length.

tied up on the books.
we buy out james, then that's just a WASTE of $6 mil on the cap.

not that i would agree with buying him out, but do you really think that $6mil is going to affect anything? not anytime soon at least.
fishmike
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8/10/2005  5:04 PM
of course it wont affect anything for US, because our franchise continues to be run in this fashion. Now if it was run like a responsible team $6mm could be the difference between signing a guy like Lamar Odom (see what $4mm did for the Heat) or Jerome James.

But since Isiah has said he will never responsibly manage the cap like winning teams do, I guess JJ doesnt matter after, and he does fill a need, so I guess this is really great after all.

Hey... as a Knick fan I always have hope. Hope that Frye will be a star, hope that we will WIN the lottery, hope that Larry Brown wont pull a Darko with our young players. Its good... cant take away my hope.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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8/10/2005  5:05 PM
hope my GM could see past 3 months at a time.. sorry, thats what this is all about isnt it.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
islesfan
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8/10/2005  5:10 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.
thank you... thats all I am saying. Its hard for some to understand... I get that. I thought we just drafted our center of the future, just wondering why we would spend $30mm to lock up a guy like James who we promised the starting job to.
again, we're NOT tied up with James for 5 years. He can be bought out like Shandon after about 2 years if he doesn't work out. Think of it as a 2 year $10 mil contract with a smaller buyout option than Shandon's contract if for some reason you're obsessed with contract length.

I know you don't care about the salary cap but at least understand the basic workings of the cap before saying things this nonsensical.

Think of it as a 5 year $30 mil contract with the money escalating in the later years when his production (if you can call it that) is going down (if that's possible) while his trade value becomes nil. It's a good thing Isiah bent over for yet another agent.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  5:11 PM
But since Isiah has said he will never responsibly manage the cap like winning teams do
That's just sad, desperate spin
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  5:12 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by djsunyc:

IF it was up to me, i would do something like fish said, throw frye at center. and sign someone like dale davis for 2 years $3 mil.

will we win a ton of games? nope, but it gives you options.

1. heaven forbid frye actually can play and hold the fort at the C spot.

2. we can get by with our 18 headed PF monster at the C spot for now.

3. and it gives us flexibility to go out and get someone later b/c we're not tied up with james for 5 years.
thank you... thats all I am saying. Its hard for some to understand... I get that. I thought we just drafted our center of the future, just wondering why we would spend $30mm to lock up a guy like James who we promised the starting job to.
again, we're NOT tied up with James for 5 years. He can be bought out like Shandon after about 2 years if he doesn't work out. Think of it as a 2 year $10 mil contract with a smaller buyout option than Shandon's contract if for some reason you're obsessed with contract length.

I know you don't care about the salary cap but at least understand the basic workings of the cap before saying things this nonsensical.

Think of it as a 5 year $30 mil contract with the money escalating in the later years when his production (if you can call it that) is going down (if that's possible) while his trade value becomes nil. It's a good thing Isiah bent over for yet another agent.
I understand the cap. What's your point?
franco12
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8/10/2005  5:17 PM
Posted by fishmike:

hope my GM could see past 3 months at a time.. sorry, thats what this is all about isnt it.

I don't think James' contract is that bad in and of itself.

If we had 12 guys making his money, we'd have a $60m payroll.

Now, I will grant you that if Isiah pulls another Marbs & Penny type deal with TT or Pennys contract, then, yea, we're going to have reason to worry.
fishmike
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8/10/2005  5:17 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
But since Isiah has said he will never responsibly manage the cap like winning teams do
That's just sad, desperate spin
no its reality. I only see one team in the NBA that wins and doesnt closely manage their cap and thats Dallas. There are a lot of succesfull teams to look at, and how they got successfull. So far NONE have ever done it the way Isiah does. The sad spin is your logic is running out, so you revert to "fishmike is hater" type crap when all else fails.

It would nice if Isiah ran the draft and hired someone that has a clue about how to do business in the NBA
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  5:18 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by fishmike:

hope my GM could see past 3 months at a time.. sorry, thats what this is all about isnt it.

I don't think James' contract is that bad in and of itself.

If we had 12 guys making his money, we'd have a $60m payroll.

Now, I will grant you that if Isiah pulls another Marbs & Penny type deal with TT or Pennys contract, then, yea, we're going to have reason to worry.
Yeah, I'd hate to have Larry Brown coaching a Marbury/Brand combo or something similar with an extra Penny contract on the bench. What a nightmare!
franco12
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8/10/2005  5:21 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by fishmike:

hope my GM could see past 3 months at a time.. sorry, thats what this is all about isnt it.

I don't think James' contract is that bad in and of itself.

If we had 12 guys making his money, we'd have a $60m payroll.

Now, I will grant you that if Isiah pulls another Marbs & Penny type deal with TT or Pennys contract, then, yea, we're going to have reason to worry.
Yeah, I'd hate to have Larry Brown coaching a Marbury/Brand combo or something similar with an extra Penny contract on the bench. What a nightmare!

I'm going to disagree with you there if Brand comes over with an ugly scrub making Mo T or Penny like money for 3 or 4 years. There is a limit to how many of those kinds of deals a team can bear to take on.
fishmike
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8/10/2005  5:22 PM
I'm sure it will happen too

No need to worry about making bad decisions because a) we have Larry B and b) we will trade our expiring contracts for Elton Brand.

Just a matter of time. Until then big game James mans the pivot
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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8/10/2005  5:23 PM
apparently Franco there isnt. The Knicks can buy out and pay any player thats an inconvenience and add as much salary as they want. There's no limit
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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8/10/2005  5:24 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Bonn1997:
But since Isiah has said he will never responsibly manage the cap like winning teams do
That's just sad, desperate spin
no its reality. I only see one team in the NBA that wins and doesnt closely manage their cap and thats Dallas. There are a lot of succesfull teams to look at, and how they got successfull. So far NONE have ever done it the way Isiah does. The sad spin is your logic is running out, so you revert to "fishmike is hater" type crap when all else fails.

It would nice if Isiah ran the draft and hired someone that has a clue about how to do business in the NBA

I think Dallas does manage their cap- they made a decision not to bring back Nash- they could have, I'm sure kept him and still gotten Damps- they just made a budgetary decision and their budget is bigger than most other teams.

I suspect there is some cap management going on with the knicks. I wouldn't be suprised if Penny & TT just don't expire.
franco12
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8/10/2005  5:27 PM
Posted by fishmike:

apparently Franco there isnt. The Knicks can buy out and pay any player thats an inconvenience and add as much salary as they want. There's no limit

We're going to find out this year if there is a limit.

In five days, Houston or Penny might get waived.

At the trading deadline, if Penny & TT are still knicks, there is a limit.

But, I'll grant you that there might not be a limit, or Dolan hasn't reached it yet.
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  5:37 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Bonn1997:
But since Isiah has said he will never responsibly manage the cap like winning teams do
That's just sad, desperate spin
no its reality. I
You said Isiah said he would never manage the cap like a winning team. He might have said he will never get under the cap, but he didn't say the part about a winning team. You made up the part about him saying he wouldn't manage the cap "like a winning team." That's why it's sad spin from someone who I thought would be happy about the team's changes this summer. I guess there is a lot to hate about adding JJ, Q, Nate Robinson, Frye, Lee, and Larry Brown

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/10/2005 17:40:50]
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  5:38 PM
Posted by fishmike:

I'm sure it will happen too

No need to worry about making bad decisions because a) we have Larry B and b) we will trade our expiring contracts for Elton Brand.
lol
Bonn1997
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8/10/2005  5:41 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by franco12:
Posted by fishmike:

hope my GM could see past 3 months at a time.. sorry, thats what this is all about isnt it.

I don't think James' contract is that bad in and of itself.

If we had 12 guys making his money, we'd have a $60m payroll.

Now, I will grant you that if Isiah pulls another Marbs & Penny type deal with TT or Pennys contract, then, yea, we're going to have reason to worry.
Yeah, I'd hate to have Larry Brown coaching a Marbury/Brand combo or something similar with an extra Penny contract on the bench. What a nightmare!

I'm going to disagree with you there if Brand comes over with an ugly scrub making Mo T or Penny like money for 3 or 4 years. There is a limit to how many of those kinds of deals a team can bear to take on.
What would be so bad about adding a player like Brand and Penny? What exact damage has Penny done to the team while being here. Be specific if you can.
franco12
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8/10/2005  6:20 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

What would be so bad about adding a player like Brand and Penny? What exact damage has Penny done to the team while being here. Be specific if you can.

Besides being a malcontent?

I tend to think at some point, for business reasons and for flexibility reasons, at some point our salary number has to come down from the stratosphere back to earth. I'd love to see TT, Penny & Houston all come off the books. At some point, we need to think to be in a position to rebuild through the draft and being able to sign a marquee free agent such as LeBron.
nyballer
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8/10/2005  6:21 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by Bonn1997:
But since Isiah has said he will never responsibly manage the cap like winning teams do
That's just sad, desperate spin
no its reality. I
You said Isiah said he would never manage the cap like a winning team. He might have said he will never get under the cap, but he didn't say the part about a winning team. You made up the part about him saying he wouldn't manage the cap "like a winning team." That's why it's sad spin from someone who I thought would be happy about the team's changes this summer. I guess there is a lot to hate about adding JJ, Q, Nate Robinson, Frye, Lee, and Larry Brown

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 08/10/2005 17:40:50]

i think most people understood what he was saying, he said isiah will never manage the cap. then fishmike added, like a winning team. the point is teams like san antonio and detroit don't win championships by spending exorbitant amounts of money and taking on players that other teams give up on to build around. theyre in a good financial situation so that if need be they can lose some players and make free agent signings. I personally think the knicks would be better off with a flexible cap situation so that they could do what phoenix did - lose their one big contract (marbury) and get a key free agent and start over. that kind of flexibility is how a team in new york with an unlimited budget can avoid being a lottery team 4 or 5 years in a row.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
Top Ten Worst Free Agent Signings - ESPN.com

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