SergioNYK wrote:

blkexec wrote:What’s Thibs performance grade in game 2?

Not good.

Didn't like the stagnant offense, not prioritizing getting KAT involved against Harris, not enough Mitch to help on the glass, gave up too easily on Payne (didn't play in the second half) and I also thought Thibs should've gotten a tech arguing one of those many non-calls.

That being said, it's not on Thibs for players getting outhustled, outrebounded, KAT being disinterested and running to the corner, Payne's 3 quick fouls, Bridges choking on 3 wide open shots late in the game and OG playing poorly at both ends.

Wins and losses are never ever on one player or the HC but Thibs was not good last night. Nobody really was.

I agree

martin wrote:I think this is a fair take:

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I think Thibs most certainly HAS made adjustments, they are always slow and methodical.

I do NOT think we have an Evan Fournier situation where we can clearly see one or two of these guys is a bad fit and not what we want to do.

To me Thibs and Leon are still checking all the boxes I am using to measure their OVERALL success. Playoffs are meaningful. Losing to Detroit would indicate considerable failure. Losing to Boston is more "not ready" but I would expect a competitive series and 2 wins. They are not Jordan's Bulls FFS.

So for me it's "let them cook"

DLeethal wrote:The most disappointing thing of the Bridges experiment is his defense. He hasn't been a stopper all year. Cade is actually running screens to get the matchup against Bridges and cooking him. Never would I thought teams would be targeting Bridges on D but here we are.

The impressions you guys have of Mikal are a bit biased. I think the cost to get him (spoiler: 5 picks was a ****ton) over state the issue and make it hard to see what he brings.

The above shot charts are from the below websites. Its full of interesting stats. All I care about is #2 in the below links - Teamwork. How a player affects the Plus Minus of his team compared to the rest of the league. That's how you win.

Bridges creates positive outcomes better than 97% of the players in the league. They put Brunson in a bad light. Make me scrutinize it, but not entirely deny it.

Mikal Bridges (TW: 97%)
https://3stepsbasket.com/player/mikal-bridges/advanced

KAT (TW: 98%)
https://3stepsbasket.com/player/karl-anthony-towns/advanced

OG (TW: 92%)
https://3stepsbasket.com/player/og-anunoby/advanced

Josh Hart (TW: 87%)
https://3stepsbasket.com/player/josh-hart/advanced

Jalen Brunson (TW: 72%)
https://3stepsbasket.com/player/jalen-brunson/advanced

Giannis Antekounpo (TW: 96%)
https://3stepsbasket.com/player/giannis-antetokounmpo/advanced

Pretty cool, right?

JB needs a Delon type guard to run with. Now you have defense at the point of attach. Deuce could also fit that role but Delon is 6’6 and deuce is 6’1.

Towns needs Mitch. It will clog the paint sometimes on offense but look what you get on defense.

It’s not rocket science.

blkexec wrote:JB is like iverson
Delon Wright is Eric Snow
Mitch is Mutumbo (RIP)

JB needs a Delon type guard to run with. Now you have defense at the point of attach. Deuce could also fit that role but Delon is 6’6 and deuce is 6’1.

Towns needs Mitch. It will clog the paint sometimes on offense but look what you get on defense.

It’s not rocket science.

Agreed, we aren't maximizing our offensive potential by spreading the floor anyway. So might as well maximize what we can on D and start Mitch

Last year I remember making a thread about identity. The players on the team matched Thibs mentality, style, work ethic 100% perfectly. Has any team/coach combo on the Knicks felt as in synch as the Riley/90's teams as last years Thibs Knicks? Never quit, never stop hustling, never give up on a game, win at all costs. We all felt it could win till the injuries came. That team didn't space well, that team didn't get 40 assists, but that team found a way.

This year we bring in KAT and Bridges and lose Hartenstein/Randle/DiVo. The reality is better players coming in, but, are they Thibs guys? A Thibs player doesn't float through a quarter without making something happen in terms of touches, defense, hustle etc. But Bridges and KAT, at their core, probably aren't Thibs guys.

Does Thibs ever want to play a 5 out? Don't get this wrong - Thibs does value shooting. Thibs does want 3s. Donte shot like 15 3's a game from the 2nd half on last year. He wants the volume...

But he doesn't play Mazulla/Stevens 5 out. He wants 3's from the corners and elbows. Where he really wants 3's is off offensive rebounds. Thibs is not a spacing guy. The spacing for shooting comes off the scramble. Attack the basket, crash the boards, when you grab the offensive rebound, the defense is out of position - now shoot the open 3.

At the end of the day, we found ourselves in a situation where if KAT wasn't gonna take Tobias to the low block, we either had a choice between Jalen ISO'ing Schroeder or KAT ISO'ing Cade from the top of the key. Which would you rather go to?

blkexec wrote:JB is like iverson
Delon Wright is Eric Snow
Mitch is Mutumbo (RIP)

JB needs a Delon type guard to run with. Now you have defense at the point of attach. Deuce could also fit that role but Delon is 6’6 and deuce is 6’1.

Towns needs Mitch. It will clog the paint sometimes on offense but look what you get on defense.

It’s not rocket science.

Would agree with you and have been trying to make the same point for some time.

My thing is, if JB needs someone and KAT needs someone to make up for their deficiencies, are they the right ones to lead the team? One making over $50M next year.

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:Ok so you realize what you're saying isn't as much as about Jalen as it really is about Thibs.

Last year I remember making a thread about identity. The players on the team matched Thibs mentality, style, work ethic 100% perfectly. Has any team/coach combo on the Knicks felt as in synch as the Riley/90's teams as last years Thibs Knicks? Never quit, never stop hustling, never give up on a game, win at all costs. We all felt it could win till the injuries came. That team didn't space well, that team didn't get 40 assists, but that team found a way.

This year we bring in KAT and Bridges and lose Hartenstein/Randle/DiVo. The reality is better players coming in, but, are they Thibs guys? A Thibs player doesn't float through a quarter without making something happen in terms of touches, defense, hustle etc. But Bridges and KAT, at their core, probably aren't Thibs guys.

Does Thibs ever want to play a 5 out? Don't get this wrong - Thibs does value shooting. Thibs does want 3s. Donte shot like 15 3's a game from the 2nd half on last year. He wants the volume...

But he doesn't play Mazulla/Stevens 5 out. He wants 3's from the corners and elbows. Where he really wants 3's is off offensive rebounds. Thibs is not a spacing guy. The spacing for shooting comes off the scramble. Attack the basket, crash the boards, when you grab the offensive rebound, the defense is out of position - now shoot the open 3.

At the end of the day, we found ourselves in a situation where if KAT wasn't gonna take Tobias to the low block, we either had a choice between Jalen ISO'ing Schroeder or KAT ISO'ing Cade from the top of the key. Which would you rather go to?

I don't quite understand this take. And I don't things are so black and white as you may have written.

Right now defenses take away KAT by putting a wing on him. If KAT is at the 3point line, they just crowd him.

It's on the offense to combat that. The defense has taken the KAT at the top of the key or anywhere near the 3point line. That's not wanting to do a 5-out things, it's a defense adjusting and the Knicks not figuring out a better way to beat them.

Jalen dominating the ball does the same thing as not finding KAT open when he is at the 3point line. And everyone else too.

Maybe I just don't understand what you are saying.

My point is Thibs has not committed to the idea of losing rebounding for floor spacing. He'd rather get his 3's off the space created from the scramble of crashing boards, then the naturally created space from having 5 shooters. He has shown an aversion to these lineups all year. He's loathe to take Josh off the floor because he wants offensive boards.

Within the offense and the way its constructed, KAT needs to take a smaller defender inside. Katz has mentioned how as time goes on he is trying to do that less and less. He did it in game 1 and dominated, and then in Game 2 he rarely tried to establish position. We gave him the ball outside and he tried to take Harris off the dribble from behind the arc. From my vantage point, I saw KAT literally just standing around - no movement. No intention to establish position, also no aggression hitting the boards. To me the only way to combat it is to get him moving closer tot he basket.