gunsnewing wrote:There would be more looting and destruction of private property today if it wasn't for the authorities. I'm sure some of the victimized store owners were black as well. The destruction of a beautiful city. What a shame

nixluva wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:There would be more looting and destruction of private property today if it wasn't for the authorities. I'm sure some of the victimized store owners were black as well. The destruction of a beautiful city. What a shame

I'm sure they've got insurance and i'm sure they will be able to rebuild. What happens when you get shot and killed? Can't just rebuild a dead human being. It's important to keep some perspective.

wow

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Where is Obama tonight when we need him? Making speeches for Hillary?

What would you want him to say or do? The Republicans are always shouting about State's Rights but when ISH goes down they go right to the big government.

Get the F off the street or the army is coming

You think that would make any difference? You think these kids would be watching what politicians say and give a flip? The violence is ridiculous but they aren't doing this in Tulsa because that Police Dept. released the video immediately. In NC they just passed a law that blocks the release of Videos to the public. It's not in effect yet but you can see how this would have a calming effect if they had let the public see what really happened. They do it wrong in NC as they do a lot of things wrong in that state.

These are criminals period

I don't condone the riots. But what do you expect? No justice no peace. African Americans get locked up or murdered regardless if criminal or not. What should the ones doing the rioting fear when the outcome will be the same regardless?

Also noticed not one comment by you over Terrance Crutcher shooting.

Newyork

this is what the female police officer said. "Shelby believed that when Crutcher attempted to reach into the car, he was retrieving a weapon, Wood said. In her interview with homicide detectives, she said, "I was never so scared in my life as in that moment right then," according to Wood.

Go check back in anothjer post about 4 months ago. I said this police stuff is "fear based". I do not believe for one second this lasy left her house this morning intentionally wanting to kill anyone. This man was UI not following direct police officers and walking to his car. The shooting was fear based--she became fearful. Im sure in her heart she didnt want to do what she did--is Trump right did she choke? maybe she did--maybe she wasnt fit for the job. But lets change positions with her--the guy was under the influence kept sticking hisn hand into his pocket and walking away from her when she simply said stop--and said it more than 10 times. Im not condoning this--somoene died but just like Michael Brown who threatened to kick the **** out of a store owner while robbing him and then going after a police officers gun--these people have a hand in their own deaths. and FEAR from the police and you can hear it--FEAR is a HUGE factor. I dont think the majority of cops dislike any creed--but I DO believe they are for the most part SCARED and afraid of AA--

I believe her that she was scared. I can't really back that up with facts just my gut reaction. But that's not a valid excuse given the circumstances. The man wasn't a suspect in any crime. Nobody called the police on him. His car just happen to break down in the middle of the road. There were 4 officers present. The man had his hands up walking away from the officers. He was tasered 2 seconds prior which was extreme but at least would have possibly prevented his death.

There was a study shown which I have to double check but I'm at work. On how police are trained on shooting to kill like 80% of the time compared to other training. Shooting to kill while ignoring tobeshaust all other possible actions its due to training. Fear rose in her because she wasn't confident or experienced in procedure.

It seems to me most female cops just tag along. Don't think I ever saw one go mano on mano with a real criminal but thats the politically correct world we live in.

The problem is people protest, loot, injure and kill even when the cops were justified. It divides the country and only illegitimizes incidents like this one too many people.

The girl screaming on TV about how she fears for her life at the hands of white cops everyday last night was out of her mind. Not a week goes by here in Newark without a black on black shooting death. Sometimes a poor young black kid walking home from school gets caught in a crossfire in drive by shooting between rival gangs. Like in other cities like Chicago I'm sure civilians fear criminals much more than they fear the police.

I've lost faith in all humanity especially a good portion of Americans. Nothing phases me anymore and I really don't give a **** about anyone but myself. Complete 180 from the person I used to be. I can only worry about myself. I really don't care what happens around me. Just stay out of my way

She wasn't mano a mano. She was with 4 other officers and a helicopter shining a light on the whole situation.

This man wasn't a gang member though and there was nothing that tied him to being one. Then after she shot him, they took there sweet time trying to get him medical attention and let him lay there bleeding out. After the shot was fired and he was laying on the ground dying. They let lay there and bleed out because they didn't view him as a human. Those types of thoughts and feelings didn't rush through their minds.

At the same time like I stated earlier. The dude who set of a bomb in NY, who was in an active shootout with police officers was captured alive. As was the mass murderer who shot up the church. Who was brought to McDonald's.

The looting that I saw was horrible. But African Americans have been voicing there concerns over issues for a long time and they have gone on deaf ears. The ones looting don't feel that their voices will be heard so they are acting out.

Speaking on violence and gangs. Most of the homicides have to do with exactly these issues. Drugs and gangs and less to do with crimes of passion. We have to stop attaching homicides to black people as its more of a drugs and gangs issue. Just like it is every part of the earth which partakes in these things. Instead of looking at rates why aren't more people asking Y?

The murder rate in Honduras is twice as high as anywhere else in the world.
http://theconversation.com/why-the-murder-rate-in-honduras-is-twice-as-high-as-anywhere-else-34687

The causes of violence in Honduras are complex. In the 1990s and 2000s, youth gangs dominated the media and policy agendas. Less attention was given to high levels of violence against women and LGBT groups, against whom violence was often normalised as part of a machista culture and tended to be ignored. Most analyses of this new wave of violence agreed that it was social in nature and the responsibility of emerging criminal groups. Less attention has been given to state and wider citizen involvement.

In response to rising crime levels, the government pursued a series of repressive policies throughout the 2000s, known as “mano dura” (iron fist). These increased the coercive powers of the police and military in waves of repression that largely targeted poor urban youth.

Police on manoeuvres in Honduran capital of Tegucigalpa EPA
The policy enjoyed the support of a majority of Honduran citizens, yet the effects have been largely counterproductive: mass arrests, a huge increase in the prison population, a greater institutionalisation of gangs and the space for other criminal organisations to consolidate a significant presence in the country.

Honduras, like other parts of Central America, is in the direct transport route for narcotics moving northwards, which foments both violence and corruption. Local narco influences either take advantage of weak state capacity or simply transplant state authority in a given locality. Increasing areas of Honduran territory are under the control of narco interests, while an estimated 50% of the Honduran police force have been corrupted by drug gangs. Trust in the institution is among the lowest in the region.

Illicit groups such as criminal gangs and drug cartels took advantage of the wider context of impunity to consolidate their position in the country. Wealthy business groups who pursue profit with little regard for the human costs have meanwhile consolidated channels of corruption. For example in one northern region, the Bajo Aguan, more than 140 peasants have been killed since 2009 in conflicts over land tenure after they were evicted to make way for massive African palm-oil plantations. At stake is fertile land and massive profits.

I have learned a lot from reading this thread. Hearing other people's comments and experiences, and different points of view is key to finding a solution. The problems have been talked about a lot, and they are understood. I'd like to see the discussion go towards solutions.

gunsnewing wrote:

holfresh wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Where is Obama tonight when we need him? Making speeches for Hillary?

What would you want him to say or do? The Republicans are always shouting about State's Rights but when ISH goes down they go right to the big government.

Get the F off the street or the army is coming

You think that would make any difference? You think these kids would be watching what politicians say and give a flip? The violence is ridiculous but they aren't doing this in Tulsa because that Police Dept. released the video immediately. In NC they just passed a law that blocks the release of Videos to the public. It's not in effect yet but you can see how this would have a calming effect if they had let the public see what really happened. They do it wrong in NC as they do a lot of things wrong in that state.

These are criminals period

I don't condone the riots. But what do you expect? No justice no peace. African Americans get locked up or murdered regardless if criminal or not. What should the ones doing the rioting fear when the outcome will be the same regardless?

Also noticed not one comment by you over Terrance Crutcher shooting.

Newyork

this is what the female police officer said. "Shelby believed that when Crutcher attempted to reach into the car, he was retrieving a weapon, Wood said. In her interview with homicide detectives, she said, "I was never so scared in my life as in that moment right then," according to Wood.

Go check back in anothjer post about 4 months ago. I said this police stuff is "fear based". I do not believe for one second this lasy left her house this morning intentionally wanting to kill anyone. This man was UI not following direct police officers and walking to his car. The shooting was fear based--she became fearful. Im sure in her heart she didnt want to do what she did--is Trump right did she choke? maybe she did--maybe she wasnt fit for the job. But lets change positions with her--the guy was under the influence kept sticking hisn hand into his pocket and walking away from her when she simply said stop--and said it more than 10 times. Im not condoning this--somoene died but just like Michael Brown who threatened to kick the **** out of a store owner while robbing him and then going after a police officers gun--these people have a hand in their own deaths. and FEAR from the police and you can hear it--FEAR is a HUGE factor. I dont think the majority of cops dislike any creed--but I DO believe they are for the most part SCARED and afraid of AA--

I believe her that she was scared. I can't really back that up with facts just my gut reaction. But that's not a valid excuse given the circumstances. The man wasn't a suspect in any crime. Nobody called the police on him. His car just happen to break down in the middle of the road. There were 4 officers present. The man had his hands up walking away from the officers. He was tasered 2 seconds prior which was extreme but at least would have possibly prevented his death.

There was a study shown which I have to double check but I'm at work. On how police are trained on shooting to kill like 80% of the time compared to other training. Shooting to kill while ignoring tobeshaust all other possible actions its due to training. Fear rose in her because she wasn't confident or experienced in procedure.

It seems to me most female cops just tag along. Don't think I ever saw one go mano on mano with a real criminal but thats the politically correct world we live in.

The problem is people protest, loot, injure and kill even when the cops were justified. It divides the country and only illegitimizes incidents like this one too many people.

The girl screaming on TV about how she fears for her life at the hands of white cops everyday last night was out of her mind. Not a week goes by here in Newark without a black on black shooting death. Sometimes a poor young black kid walking home from school gets caught in a crossfire in drive by shooting between rival gangs. Like in other cities like Chicago I'm sure civilians fear criminals much more than they fear the police.

I've lost faith in all humanity especially a good portion of Americans. Nothing phases me anymore and I really don't give a **** about anyone but myself. Complete 180 from the person I used to be. I can only worry about myself. I really don't care what happens around me. Just stay out of my way

Since you are so concerned about black on black crime, how about helping us out and voting against legislators who help push guns on our streets with gun lookholes..

Or we can fix the number of *******s in this country.

Well guns, if you only worry about yourself and don't care what happens around you, you are the definition of an *******.

How are you planning to fix yourself?

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:BRIGGS if you want to say I am copping out and not interested in serious discourse, your choice. Take a look at the first two pages of this thread and my initial responses to your OP. I conceded to many of your points about Clinton there and throughout this thread. I consider myself a thoughtful and fair person.

I'm not sure you ever acknowledged my responses. Which is fine. But if you are actually interested in serious discourse, reset this thread by starting there.

Or you can do what you continue to do and say "Obama has done nothing". 50-something-frigging pages later, same crap.

"Obama has done nothing" is categorically, absolutely false. Has he done enough? is a question someone interested in serious discourse might ask. But nope, you love hyperbole.

So when you post an article of some unrelated robbery-murder and point to the race of the people involved as some sort of explanation why cops shoot black people, I'm sorry, the gloves are coming off. Sure I can put myself in the place of a cop as one human can for another. But you are saying that black people get killed because of the crime in our communities. Do you actually think I like the crime in my community or in any?

I wish we lived in a world with no cops, no military, no violence. But violence was here before I was born, and will be there after I die. This thread isn't going to solve that issue. Your train of thought is full of magical thinking and non-sequitars. Do better or just give it a rest.

Just to address this Black Crime issue, I posted this earlier to fight this MYTH that Black Crime is some kind of outsized issue in America and that Black on Black Crime is some unique Racial phenomenon.

5 Facts That Shatter the Myth of ‘Black-on-Black’ CrimeC. Robert Gibson | December 29, 2015
The next time you hear someone say “black-on-black crime”, show them this.

Whenever a tragedy like the non-indictment of 12-year-old Tamir Rice’s killers happens, the racists inevitably come out to do battle with activists posting indignant Facebook statuses, eager to deflect attention to police officers killing black children to the specter of “black-on-black crime.”

However, “black-on-black crime” is a loaded term meant to enable racists, cementing the idea in people’s heads that the real problem isn’t the judicial system and law enforcement disproportionately targeting black people for arrest/incarceration/lethal force, but black people killing each other. It affirms the erroneous viewpoint that everyone has equal opportunity in society, and that the only reason black people are so disenfranchised is due to their own behavior.

Here are 5 facts that prove white-on-white crime is actually the real problem, and that anyone trying to make “black-on-black crime” a major issue is just a racist looking for positive reinforcement of their prejudiced worldview.

1. 84 PERCENT OF WHITE MURDER VICTIMS WERE WHITE
The FBI’s homicide statistics, rallying murders for the 28 years between 1980 and 2008, don’t lie. An overwhelming majority of homicides were carried out by white people, against other white people. Even though the ratio of black homicides against black victims is greater, the number of white murderers far exceeds the number of black murderers. The fact that no media outlet will say the words “white-on-white murder” despite this statistic shows a desire to bend words to confirm racist viewpoints.

FBI homicide statistics, 2011

2. WHITES KILL MORE WHITES THAN BLACK PEOPLE KILL EACH OTHER
In 2011, the most recent year for which data is available, 2,630 white people killed 3,172 white people, according to FBI homicide statistics. When comparing that to the black population, in which 2,447 African-Americans murdered 2,695 of their own, white-on-white murder is clearly the bigger issue.

3. WHITE PEOPLE COMMIT MORE CRIMES THAN ANY OTHER RACE
White people are the largest demographic in the United States, and as a result, commit more crimes than any other race, largely against other white people. 2010 crime statistics from the FBI confirm that whites lead blacks by 2-1 in arrests, and lead all other ethnicities by 2-1 in incidents of forcible rape (66.3 percent of rapes were committed by whites, while 31 percent were committed by blacks). White people also lead black people by 2-1 in larceny-theft: 64.8 percent of thieves are white, while only 31.9 percent of thieves are black.

4. WHITE PEOPLE KILL MORE MEMBERS OF VULNERABLE POPULATIONS THAN ANY OTHER RACE
Vulnerable populations are generally defined as children and the elderly. Family members and significant others are also often targets of homicide, rather than random victims. FBI homicide statistics from 1980 to 2008 show that white people are, by the numbers, far more likely to kill children and the elderly than any other race. Additionally, white people commit more sex-related and gang-related homicides than any other race.

FBI homicide statistics, 1980-2008

5. GANG MURDERS ARE MOST COMMON AMONG WHITE GANGS
While a lot of attention has been given to the gang-related homicides in Chicago’s predominantly-black South side, very little press has been devoted to covering the epidemic of white-on-white gangland murders. As the above chart demonstrates, the majority of gang-related homicides are committed by white people (53.3 percent white, 42.2 percent black), and the majority of white gang murder victims are also white (56.5 percent white, 40 percent black). Have this fact handy the next time someone bemoans “black-on-black” gang violence.

There are charts in the original article: http://usuncut.com/black-lives-matter/black-on-black-crime/

Nix, those stats are as misleading as Briggs stats about cops killing more whites than blacks. How silly is it to compare numbers without specifying the percentages of whites vs. blacks in america?

1 out of x whites vs 1 out of x blacks, not 130 whites and 120 blacks. C'mon ... how can someone just ignore that.

I am in no way saying that blacks are worse than whites or vise versa, there are many other issues that may lead to more crime in different areas with specific races but lets not through numbers out there that are blatantly misleading.

And here we are in the weeds!
mreinman has a valid point here IMHO, sorry to say nix.

Adding skewable data to an argument based on faulty assumptions is pointless. It's BRIGGS' faulty assumptions and bad logic that I'm trying to attack... over and over. Of course I get a direct response when I drop the N word... Alinsky tactics! Maybe he'll actually finally respond to the first page of this thread.

Or we'll just get a link about a black-on-black shootout in a chicken shack somewhere and how it's Obama's fault and how it makes cops so scared!

I will say that it wasn't my best set of examples but my point still stands that most of the time people mention Black on Black crime as if it's something unique when in fact it's just normal for people of the same race to have high contact with each other and thus the majority of crimes are within their own race. So it's not inaccurate to point out that White on White Crime is no different than Black on Black crime rates. They're both higher than cross racial crime. The Black on Black thing is a ruse that racists use.

whats the % of black on black crime vs. white on white? Also, one would need to factor in that there are many more whites so of course there will be many more white victims. Again, not a judgement, just pointing out that your comment is still stating things without context.

I would say that in poor lower class (in earnings) neighborhoods there will of course be much more crime.

There are many other factors such as religion and extremism. How many jew on jew murders do you see, or muslim on muslim crime do you see in the US?

I am sure that destitute white neighborhoods have very high crime rates as well. There are many factors to consider.

The percentage of incarcerated black men are extremely high % wise and that is not because they are black obviously. Its the broken system that we have that limits the options of poor minorities.

When one of topics under discussion is unfairly skewed distribution of convictions along racial lines, is it really fair to use the conviction data (normalized or not) to settle the debate? If for the sake of argument you assume the 50℅ of white crimes don't result in convictions, then by definition the data gathering mechanism itself is corrupted. What conclusions can you draw from it?

BRIGGS wrote:This whole topic has gone off course. It was supposed to be where is Hillary hiding all of these months and that I didnt believe she was in the best interest of the people. I dont want to see anyone hurt from any race and it would be smart if the next President put in a police reform bill that shouldve been put ion already. I dont agree with some police actions from small to big. I like what Magic Johnson said--its time to vet our own cops

You said you wanted to nuke the entire middle east last year!

fishmike wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:This whole topic has gone off course. It was supposed to be where is Hillary hiding all of these months and that I didnt believe she was in the best interest of the people. I dont want to see anyone hurt from any race and it would be smart if the next President put in a police reform bill that shouldve been put ion already. I dont agree with some police actions from small to big. I like what Magic Johnson said--its time to vet our own cops

you can also set them up for success, starting with eliminating or changing laws that are execute with racial bias. I have said it before, I will say it again. Equal %s of whites and blacks use drugs in this country. However blacks go to jail, become "felons" and later on when they are shot, or the victims of police bias it gets swept away because now they have a criminal record so whatever happened it was probably their fault. The white middle class kids.. they go to rehab.

The war on drugs is a terrible failure. All it has accomplished is cost the tax payers millions and lock up poor minorities in masses. I cant think of a single set of laws more biased towards incarcerating minorities... go look up the data, its backed up.

Trump is going to toughen laws so rich white people feel safer and America is great again. Meanwhile its more of the same. Black kid from a 30k a year household gets popped with a bag of weed he's a felon. If its your kid Briggs, you hire a nice lawyer, charges are reduced to some misdemeanor and it stays off his perm record so he can go to a nice school and work for banks.

That's my point exactly. The data shows less white crimes because less number of whites get convicted. In this case the data sux. But it's being used to therein prop up arguments about black on black crime.

BRIGGS wrote:This whole topic has gone off course. It was supposed to be where is Hillary hiding all of these months and that I didnt believe she was in the best interest of the people. I dont want to see anyone hurt from any race and it would be smart if the next President put in a police reform bill that shouldve been put ion already. I dont agree with some police actions from small to big. I like what Magic Johnson said--its time to vet our own cops

The topic has not gone off course at all..Fact is you are just blind to the fact that race is very much part of this election. Trump has unearthed something that has been hiding just under the layer of society and now it feels it's safe to come out..Note all the officials in high positions who now feel comfortable expressing their inner thoughts..Trump has and continues to appeal to these people..You just choose to ignore it...So that's the stark choice for some...Hillary or the Bigot...Hillary or the Con Man..Hillary or the Narcissist..Hillary or the Showman..etc...