I prefer to respond directly to the points BRIGGS and guns put forward. "Here is what I hear you saying" ... "by your own logic, that means..." I know that you and arkrud got into it a couple pages ago, and it's just a lot of talking past each other. I get both of you guys' perspective, and admittedly this is a heated topic. But I hate this stupid "I'm going to say something edgy and not-PC" thing to elicit an emotional response and then say "whoa, you are so emotional!" It's dishonest, disrespectful, and wack — historical perspectives and data isn't the game they are playing there. Innuendo, propaganda and disingenuous "thought experiments" seems like what the game is. That's why at a certain point you have to just figure someone is being a troll, like guns. Who needs facts when you can smell a Muslim rat when you see one?

Pointing out errors in assumptions and mischaracterizations and outright lies and incorrect facts you would think would cause a reasonable person to say: you know what, I see what you are saying. But that's weakness I guess in what passes for discourse these days.

Nalod wrote:

Not sure where this goes. She pulled the trigger in fear. She had her husbands voice in her ear as he was the jerk in the helicopter. I can imagine he was scared for her safety. I'd almost say lesson the charge for her but get him too. They both deserve something.

First Degree Manslaughter

Oklahoma State law defines first degree manslaughter in 21 O.S. § 711. Under this statute, an act of homicide is considered to be manslaughter in the first degree when it occurs under one of the following circumstances:

When a death occurs during the commission of a misdemeanor.
When a person unintentionally kills in a another “in the heat of passion,” either in a “cruel or unusual manner” or by using a dangerous weapon (excluding justifiable homicide in self-defense)
When a person uses unnecessary lethal force in an attempt to resist a crime or after the attempt to commit a crime has failed.
When a physician is intoxicated and commits an act resulting in the death of a patient, including administering the wrong medication or dose.

First degree manslaughter is a felony. The minimum penalty is a prison term of 4 years. Furthermore, first degree manslaughter is an 85 Percent Crime, which requires the person convicted to serve at least 85 percent of his or her sentence before becoming eligible for parole.

She is not alone, but she is negligent.

CNN is reporting that her husband was in the helicopter — which I had no idea about — but not the one who said the "real bad dude" comment, to be fair.

I am surprised at the indictment coming so quickly along with the video release. "bad dude" BS aside, I will try to reserve judgement on everyone involved. But I am impressed at the transparency and urgency the authorities in Tulsa are using in handling this matter.

It is also not lost on me that Tulsa was the site of the 1921 massacre that destroyed its prosperous Greenwood neighborhood, home of "Black Wall Street", which has been brought up many times on this board. That community has been through a lot, and I'm proud at how peace has prevailed there so far.

Nalod wrote:

Not sure where this goes. She pulled the trigger in fear. She had her husbands voice in her ear as he was the jerk in the helicopter. I can imagine he was scared for her safety. I'd almost say lesson the charge for her but get him too. They both deserve something.

First Degree Manslaughter

Oklahoma State law defines first degree manslaughter in 21 O.S. § 711. Under this statute, an act of homicide is considered to be manslaughter in the first degree when it occurs under one of the following circumstances:

When a death occurs during the commission of a misdemeanor.
When a person unintentionally kills in a another “in the heat of passion,” either in a “cruel or unusual manner” or by using a dangerous weapon (excluding justifiable homicide in self-defense)
When a person uses unnecessary lethal force in an attempt to resist a crime or after the attempt to commit a crime has failed.
When a physician is intoxicated and commits an act resulting in the death of a patient, including administering the wrong medication or dose.

First degree manslaughter is a felony. The minimum penalty is a prison term of 4 years. Furthermore, first degree manslaughter is an 85 Percent Crime, which requires the person convicted to serve at least 85 percent of his or her sentence before becoming eligible for parole.

She is not alone, but she is negligent.

There is no justifiable claim of self defense, She should be convicted, for shooting a defenseless person who was in no way threatening her. But in the reality we all know that won't happen.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Not sure where this goes. She pulled the trigger in fear. She had her husbands voice in her ear as he was the jerk in the helicopter. I can imagine he was scared for her safety. I'd almost say lesson the charge for her but get him too. They both deserve something.

First Degree Manslaughter

Oklahoma State law defines first degree manslaughter in 21 O.S. § 711. Under this statute, an act of homicide is considered to be manslaughter in the first degree when it occurs under one of the following circumstances:

When a death occurs during the commission of a misdemeanor.
When a person unintentionally kills in a another “in the heat of passion,” either in a “cruel or unusual manner” or by using a dangerous weapon (excluding justifiable homicide in self-defense)
When a person uses unnecessary lethal force in an attempt to resist a crime or after the attempt to commit a crime has failed.
When a physician is intoxicated and commits an act resulting in the death of a patient, including administering the wrong medication or dose.

First degree manslaughter is a felony. The minimum penalty is a prison term of 4 years. Furthermore, first degree manslaughter is an 85 Percent Crime, which requires the person convicted to serve at least 85 percent of his or her sentence before becoming eligible for parole.

She is not alone, but she is negligent.

There is no justifiable claim of self defense, She should be convicted, for shooting a defenseless person who was in no way threatening her. But in the reality we all know that won't happen.

We don't all know that. We should let this play out.

They still need to address National Policy for Police Training so that all police are trained how to de-escalate and assess situations better. There should be ongoing sensitivity training for all police.

DrAlphaeus wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Not sure where this goes. She pulled the trigger in fear. She had her husbands voice in her ear as he was the jerk in the helicopter. I can imagine he was scared for her safety. I'd almost say lesson the charge for her but get him too. They both deserve something.

First Degree Manslaughter

Oklahoma State law defines first degree manslaughter in 21 O.S. § 711. Under this statute, an act of homicide is considered to be manslaughter in the first degree when it occurs under one of the following circumstances:

When a death occurs during the commission of a misdemeanor.
When a person unintentionally kills in a another “in the heat of passion,” either in a “cruel or unusual manner” or by using a dangerous weapon (excluding justifiable homicide in self-defense)
When a person uses unnecessary lethal force in an attempt to resist a crime or after the attempt to commit a crime has failed.
When a physician is intoxicated and commits an act resulting in the death of a patient, including administering the wrong medication or dose.

First degree manslaughter is a felony. The minimum penalty is a prison term of 4 years. Furthermore, first degree manslaughter is an 85 Percent Crime, which requires the person convicted to serve at least 85 percent of his or her sentence before becoming eligible for parole.

She is not alone, but she is negligent.

There is no justifiable claim of self defense, She should be convicted, for shooting a defenseless person who was in no way threatening her. But in the reality we all know that won't happen.

We don't all know that. We should let this play out.

We have seen this play out before haven't we? There will be major coverage on the TV networks with pundits weighing in on whether he was reaching for a gun or not. That line will be repeated about 4 million times in the next two days and then a fraction of the population will just assume it to be true. Case closed. As you can tell I am very cynical, but I am yet to find a reason to not be so. I do give them credit for at least charging her.

holfresh wrote:Where have I heard this before??..Has anyone on this site been echoing this sentiment??..Hmmmmmm...

Well at the end of the day you have to accept, you just can't fix stupid

meloshouldgo wrote:

holfresh wrote:Where have I heard this before??..Has anyone on this site been echoing this sentiment??..Hmmmmmm...

Well at the end of the day you have to accept, you just can't fix stupid

Well luckily by the end of this day, she has resigned from her role as GOP nomination county chair and as an Electoral College elector for Trump.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/22/trump-campaign-chair-kathy-miller-resigns-ohio-racism-obama

The gall of a real estate broker working in the same county as Youngstown to shrug off 5 decades of "rust" in the former Steel Valley and racist redlining as something black folks need to just get over. No racism until Obama. I don't understand the logic AT ALL.

Her part of Ohio used to be a hotbed of Ku Klux Klan activity. In the early 20th century back when Italians and Irish Catholics were still becoming "white" — and were being joined by immigrants from the Middle East — there was actually an anti-Klan organization called the Knights of the Flaming Circle made up of those folks that got into violent battles with the KKK.

And of course the Protestant whites and the non-WASP-whites-to-be both discriminated against the African-American migrants that came to work in the mills around that time.

Let's Make America Great Again!

We have been reduced to a country where it's OK to take a human life on the pretext of feeling that your life was in danger, even when it's completely clear to everyone that it wasn't. Well meaning non black people are getting desensitized to this, because of the sheer volume of incidents. To compound the problem every right wing whackjob will now feel that their lives are threatened, conspiracy theories will become more and more mainstream. If even the police are afraid of blacks as Briggs has explained so valiantly who can blame these poor souls for feeling the same way? Plus they already own guns - you do the math. Unlike police shootings civilian murders wont have video evidence. The people most likely to commit hate crimes (right wing extremists) are basically being offered carte blanche to indulge themselves by the ineptitude and abysmal failure of our legal and political systems. It's scary, incomprehensible and just plain revolting all at the same time. This may seem extreme when it's written out like this, but unfortunately it's already reality for plenty of black families across the nation. People need to wake the fukk up. Pardon me for not trying to be positive. I am kinda tired of that game.

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:Just so we're clear why there are protests many times with these Police Shootings, it's not just one incident that gets people this angry and fired up. One thing that really angers people is that there's a huge difference in how Police deal with a White person with a gun verses a Black Person with or without a gun!!!

nixluva you forgot to mention that white people are killed more than twice as much by police than any other race.

I am assuming that you factored in the percentage of blacks vs whites in the US?

GustavBahler wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Where is Obama tonight when we need him? Making speeches for Hillary?

What would you want him to say or do? The Republicans are always shouting about State's Rights but when ISH goes down they go right to the big government.

Get the F off the street or the army is coming

You think that would make any difference? You think these kids would be watching what politicians say and give a flip? The violence is ridiculous but they aren't doing this in Tulsa because that Police Dept. released the video immediately. In NC they just passed a law that blocks the release of Videos to the public. It's not in effect yet but you can see how this would have a calming effect if they had let the public see what really happened. They do it wrong in NC as they do a lot of things wrong in that state.

These are criminals period

I don't condone the riots. But what do you expect? No justice no peace. African Americans get locked up or murdered regardless if criminal or not. What should the ones doing the rioting fear when the outcome will be the same regardless?

Also noticed not one comment by you over Terrance Crutcher shooting.

Newyork

this is what the female police officer said. "Shelby believed that when Crutcher attempted to reach into the car, he was retrieving a weapon, Wood said. In her interview with homicide detectives, she said, "I was never so scared in my life as in that moment right then," according to Wood.

Go check back in anothjer post about 4 months ago. I said this police stuff is "fear based". I do not believe for one second this lasy left her house this morning intentionally wanting to kill anyone. This man was UI not following direct police officers and walking to his car. The shooting was fear based--she became fearful. Im sure in her heart she didnt want to do what she did--is Trump right did she choke? maybe she did--maybe she wasnt fit for the job. But lets change positions with her--the guy was under the influence kept sticking hisn hand into his pocket and walking away from her when she simply said stop--and said it more than 10 times. Im not condoning this--somoene died but just like Michael Brown who threatened to kick the **** out of a store owner while robbing him and then going after a police officers gun--these people have a hand in their own deaths. and FEAR from the police and you can hear it--FEAR is a HUGE factor. I dont think the majority of cops dislike any creed--but I DO believe they are for the most part SCARED and afraid of AA--

Any cop who is scared of black people has no business being a cop, plain and simple. If seeing a black person sends a cop into a panic, makes him trigger happy, why the F would you want them to be a cop?

didn't jesse jackson said that he is scared of black people?