mrKnickShot wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:REALLY DUDE. Do you think people keep your posting in their "favorites" folder so they can give you credit that ain't due. Pound your chest on your own time instead of attacking a guys who isn't a homer but is willing to accept reality unlike some.

No one is "attacking" anyone but I'm sorry, I'm not going to allow someone to make remarks such as "what is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened" and/or "Nobody saw this coming". Because I did. Lots of us long-time Knick fans did as well. Anyone with any type of basketball knowledge and/or insight understood (at the time) that our current Knicks team were on the verge of becoming a serious contender heading into the season. It was written in stone and wasn't hard to see.

During the offseason I seen our strongest team dating back to our Knicks of 1993-1994. Envisioned our strongest Knicks team in over 19-20 years. Like I stated earlier, all it took were years of Knicks fan experience combined with a thought process. Even went as far as explaining exactly why during a thread I created "Knicks of 2012-2013 vs Knicks of 1993-1994".

During the entire offseason, I talked about how we were on the verge of featuring (by far) the deepest team in the NBA and maybe even in franchise history. Our overall depth from top to bottom was (and is) unheard of, the ability our players had (and have) on the basketball court is something special, veteran leadership galore etc, etc our potential goes through the roof and I'm still not sure how fans and posters such as Nalod (for example) didn't see this coming heading into the season. I predicted our first Atlantic Division title dating back to our 1993-1994 season not because I'm some type of "homer" but because I've been around the game of basketball and/or a fan of these Knicks for well over 20 years now. I know great potential when I see it. And yes, I seen this during the offseason.

So yeah, I don't need a poster such as Nalod stating "what is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened" and/or "Nobody saw this coming". He can speak for himself. Hindsight is always 20/20 but just because he never had the (offseason) ability to envision one of our (potentially) greatest Knick teams of all-time... Doesn't mean that everyone else shared his doom and gloom and/or "wait and see" approach. He could've simply stated that what's happening now is something that he himself never had any knowledge about (before it happened) and/or he himself never seen this coming. Don't speak for us all. Speak for yourself.

Because during the offseason after we signed Steve Novak long term, extended J.R Smith for another year, while landing the likes of a lockdown defender in Ronnie Brewer, a veteran and future HOF leader in Jason Kidd, an overseas great in Pablo Prigioni, true veteran BIG's looking to play tough down low in Kurt Thomas, Rasheed Wallace and Marcus Camby to go along with our core group of players in Iman Shumpert, Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler? It;s hard to believe how anyone could've gone out of their way to call a fellow Knicks fan "a homer".

I think a lot of people felt very hopeful going into last season as well. And not all but many of the last decade or so.

Anyone with any type of basketball knowledge and/or insight understood (at the time) that our current Knicks team were on the verge of becoming a serious contender heading into the season. It was written in stone and wasn't hard to see.

Hmm

Anyone who thought that we would be contender going into last year with TD as our starting PG and MDA as his coach just didnt get it.

TD starting PG. Dark times indeed so you're right about that.

My point was this: Outside of this season, which still has plenty of time to go down in flames in spectacular fashion, there have been quite a few seasons where we had reason to hope for progress.

- the season where we reunited MDA and Amare and Felton and had some good young pieces.
- Stephon Marbury AND one of the few nightly 20/10 threats (Zachy) and one of the only players to score 50+ for multiple teams (Crawford)

Going into this season:

- we had no idea (and still don't) which Amare we'd get.
- Outside of a brief stretch under Woodson we didn't know Melo would improve his shot selection and 3pt shooting, move the ball and play the hardest he's ever played on defense.
- Shump ended the season crumpled on the floor holding his knee
- Our starting PG was coming off the worst season of his entire career where fans of his team coined the term "Feltdown" to reference his 4th quarter critical TOs
- Our backup PG originally sold to us as a mentor to Lin did not have a great season in Dallas and just drove his car into a pole
- Our other additions were the oldest rookie in NBA history, someone coming off 2 years of retirement that looked like crap in Boston, Krazy Eyes, and Marcus Camby (the one I was most excited about, haha)oh and Ronnie Brewer also coming off knee surgery

so to have NYKMentality say

No one is "attacking" anyone but I'm sorry, I'm not going to allow someone to make remarks such as "what is happening with this team is something both Haters and Homers did not have knowledge about before it happened" and/or "Nobody saw this coming". Because I did. Lots of us long-time Knick fans did as well. Anyone with any type of basketball knowledge and/or insight understood (at the time) that our current Knicks team were on the verge of becoming a serious contender heading into the season. It was written in stone and wasn't hard to see.

is a bit..perplexing.

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:Current ESPN main NBA page states...

"IT DOESN'T ADD UP"

Melo's MVP candidacy....lol Hmmm I wonder what could be their(the writer's article) reasoning?

It's an insider article...I don't subscribe so I can't post what information they are using for Scussin. Anyone who does can post if they like. I'll search another forum to see if someone has mentioned it.

Please someone do. I'm curious as to what Justin Kubatko has to say.

I guess Sekou in your mind would have Kubato in a Figure Four Leg Lock forcing him to Tap Out on credibility huh?

Basically said what you or I anyone with a keyboard can say. Durant has better numbers and better record so he deserves MVP.

What a revelation!

The New York Knicks have the best record in the Eastern Conference and their star, Carmelo Anthony, is having the finest season of his career, facts which have led many to declare Anthony the early favorite for MVP.

Most of the arguments in support of Anthony are of the "best player on the best team" variety, but that is a standard that could just as easily be applied to Kevin Durant. And in a head-to-head comparison of the two, it is clear that Durant's season has been superior to Anthony's in almost every way.

While Anthony has been a very efficient scorer this season, his performance pales in comparison to Durant, who leads all high-volume scorers with a true shooting percentage of 64.8. To understand just how good that is, consider that only three high-volume scorers since 1977-78 -- Adrian Dantley in 1983-84, Charles Barkley in 1987-88 and Amar'e Stoudemire in 2007-08 -- have finished a season with a higher TS%.

Durant's big advantage in scoring efficiency could be somewhat mitigated by a similar advantage for Anthony in scoring average, but that is not the case: Anthony's average of 27.9 points per game is only slightly better than Durant's average of 27.1.

A player's offensive efficiency is made up of more than just scoring, of course, as passing, offensive rebounding and turnovers need to be taken into account. In these phases, Durant is the better passer (assisting on almost twice as many of his teammates' field goals when he is on the floor), while Anthony is the better offensive rebounder (grabbing more than twice as many available offensive rebounds) and is better at avoiding turnovers (10.1 turnovers per 100 plays compared to 13.9 for Durant).

Putting it all together, Durant produces an estimated 122 points per 100 possessions, the best rate in the league among high-volume scorers, while Anthony produces an estimated 114 points per 100 possessions, good for fifth among high-volume scorers.

A gap of eight points per 100 possessions is big, but it is a difference that could be made up by an elite defender. Alas, the words "elite defender" have never been used to describe Anthony.

Individual defense can be hard to quantify, as the traditional box score records only defensive rebounds, steals and blocks. While imperfect, these measures clearly give the edge to Durant:

• Durant grabs approximately 21.1 percent of available defensive rebounds while he is on the floor compared to 15.5 percent for Anthony.

• Durant averages about 2.0 steals per 100 opponent possessions when he is on the floor compared to 1.3 for Anthony.

• Durant blocks approximately 2.7 percent of opponent 2-point shots while he is on the floor compared to 1.3 percent for Anthony.

Looking at defense from a team standpoint gives the edge to Durant as well:

• Oklahoma City allows 103.8 points per 100 possessions while New York allows 105.7 points per 100 possessions.

• The Thunder defense allows about eight points per 100 possessions fewer when Durant is on the floor versus when he is off the floor.

• The Knicks defense allows about one point per 100 possessions more when Anthony is on the floor versus when he is off the floor.

Once again acknowledging the imperfection of the available data, there is nothing to suggest that Anthony has any kind of defensive advantage over Durant. In fact, the evidence points to Durant being the better defender.

Win shares is a statistic that attempts to summarize all of a player's accomplishments in a single number. Durant currently leads the NBA in both win shares (5.5) and win shares per 48 minutes (.280), while Anthony is 11th and 12th (3.0 and .204, respectively) in these categories.

None of this is meant to be an indictment of Anthony as a player -- it is an indictment of the primary argument being used to support him as MVP. Durant's clearly better season, coupled with the fact that Oklahoma City has the best record in the NBA, negates the "best player on the best team" argument. If you're looking for the MVP of the first eight weeks of the season, look no further than Durant.

lol @ the point where he started to hon in on things like assists. But But But But But what about the "HOCKEY ASSIST" KuBato Matata?

His Top 5 are

His top 5
1. Kevin Durant
2. Chris Paul
3. LeBron James
4. Tyson Chandler
5. Kobe Bryant

It's amazing the difference from 1 week 4gms played to 8weeks 24gms played but hey there's still time. And fans over on this forum think it's too early after 24gms to be discussing it.....Ha Ha Ha Ha

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284813 Riveting Stuff

trololmnop!

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:Current ESPN main NBA page states...

"IT DOESN'T ADD UP"

Melo's MVP candidacy....lol Hmmm I wonder what could be their(the writer's article) reasoning?

It's an insider article...I don't subscribe so I can't post what information they are using for Scussin. Anyone who does can post if they like. I'll search another forum to see if someone has mentioned it.

Please someone do. I'm curious as to what Justin Kubatko has to say.

I guess Sekou in your mind would have Kubato in a Figure Four Leg Lock forcing him to Tap Out on credibility huh?

Basically said what you or I anyone with a keyboard can say. Durant has better numbers and better record so he deserves MVP.

What a revelation!

The New York Knicks have the best record in the Eastern Conference and their star, Carmelo Anthony, is having the finest season of his career, facts which have led many to declare Anthony the early favorite for MVP.

Most of the arguments in support of Anthony are of the "best player on the best team" variety, but that is a standard that could just as easily be applied to Kevin Durant. And in a head-to-head comparison of the two, it is clear that Durant's season has been superior to Anthony's in almost every way.

While Anthony has been a very efficient scorer this season, his performance pales in comparison to Durant, who leads all high-volume scorers with a true shooting percentage of 64.8. To understand just how good that is, consider that only three high-volume scorers since 1977-78 -- Adrian Dantley in 1983-84, Charles Barkley in 1987-88 and Amar'e Stoudemire in 2007-08 -- have finished a season with a higher TS%.

Durant's big advantage in scoring efficiency could be somewhat mitigated by a similar advantage for Anthony in scoring average, but that is not the case: Anthony's average of 27.9 points per game is only slightly better than Durant's average of 27.1.

A player's offensive efficiency is made up of more than just scoring, of course, as passing, offensive rebounding and turnovers need to be taken into account. In these phases, Durant is the better passer (assisting on almost twice as many of his teammates' field goals when he is on the floor), while Anthony is the better offensive rebounder (grabbing more than twice as many available offensive rebounds) and is better at avoiding turnovers (10.1 turnovers per 100 plays compared to 13.9 for Durant).

Putting it all together, Durant produces an estimated 122 points per 100 possessions, the best rate in the league among high-volume scorers, while Anthony produces an estimated 114 points per 100 possessions, good for fifth among high-volume scorers.

A gap of eight points per 100 possessions is big, but it is a difference that could be made up by an elite defender. Alas, the words "elite defender" have never been used to describe Anthony.

Individual defense can be hard to quantify, as the traditional box score records only defensive rebounds, steals and blocks. While imperfect, these measures clearly give the edge to Durant:

• Durant grabs approximately 21.1 percent of available defensive rebounds while he is on the floor compared to 15.5 percent for Anthony.

• Durant averages about 2.0 steals per 100 opponent possessions when he is on the floor compared to 1.3 for Anthony.

• Durant blocks approximately 2.7 percent of opponent 2-point shots while he is on the floor compared to 1.3 percent for Anthony.

Looking at defense from a team standpoint gives the edge to Durant as well:

• Oklahoma City allows 103.8 points per 100 possessions while New York allows 105.7 points per 100 possessions.

• The Thunder defense allows about eight points per 100 possessions fewer when Durant is on the floor versus when he is off the floor.

• The Knicks defense allows about one point per 100 possessions more when Anthony is on the floor versus when he is off the floor.

Once again acknowledging the imperfection of the available data, there is nothing to suggest that Anthony has any kind of defensive advantage over Durant. In fact, the evidence points to Durant being the better defender.

Win shares is a statistic that attempts to summarize all of a player's accomplishments in a single number. Durant currently leads the NBA in both win shares (5.5) and win shares per 48 minutes (.280), while Anthony is 11th and 12th (3.0 and .204, respectively) in these categories.

None of this is meant to be an indictment of Anthony as a player -- it is an indictment of the primary argument being used to support him as MVP. Durant's clearly better season, coupled with the fact that Oklahoma City has the best record in the NBA, negates the "best player on the best team" argument. If you're looking for the MVP of the first eight weeks of the season, look no further than Durant.

lol @ the point where he started to hon in on things like assists. But But But But But what about the "HOCKEY ASSIST" KuBato Matata?

His Top 5 are

His top 5
1. Kevin Durant
2. Chris Paul
3. LeBron James
4. Tyson Chandler
5. Kobe Bryant

It's amazing the difference from 1 week 4gms played to 8weeks 24gms played but hey there's still time. And fans over on this forum think it's too early after 24gms to be discussing it.....Ha Ha Ha Ha

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284813 Riveting Stuff

trololmnop!

Bonn1997 wrote:

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

3G4G wrote:Current ESPN main NBA page states...

"IT DOESN'T ADD UP"

Melo's MVP candidacy....lol Hmmm I wonder what could be their(the writer's article) reasoning?

It's an insider article...I don't subscribe so I can't post what information they are using for Scussin. Anyone who does can post if they like. I'll search another forum to see if someone has mentioned it.

Please someone do. I'm curious as to what Justin Kubatko has to say.

I guess Sekou in your mind would have Kubato in a Figure Four Leg Lock forcing him to Tap Out on credibility huh?

Basically said what you or I anyone with a keyboard can say. Durant has better numbers and better record so he deserves MVP.

What a revelation!

The New York Knicks have the best record in the Eastern Conference and their star, Carmelo Anthony, is having the finest season of his career, facts which have led many to declare Anthony the early favorite for MVP.

Most of the arguments in support of Anthony are of the "best player on the best team" variety, but that is a standard that could just as easily be applied to Kevin Durant. And in a head-to-head comparison of the two, it is clear that Durant's season has been superior to Anthony's in almost every way.

While Anthony has been a very efficient scorer this season, his performance pales in comparison to Durant, who leads all high-volume scorers with a true shooting percentage of 64.8. To understand just how good that is, consider that only three high-volume scorers since 1977-78 -- Adrian Dantley in 1983-84, Charles Barkley in 1987-88 and Amar'e Stoudemire in 2007-08 -- have finished a season with a higher TS%.

Durant's big advantage in scoring efficiency could be somewhat mitigated by a similar advantage for Anthony in scoring average, but that is not the case: Anthony's average of 27.9 points per game is only slightly better than Durant's average of 27.1.

A player's offensive efficiency is made up of more than just scoring, of course, as passing, offensive rebounding and turnovers need to be taken into account. In these phases, Durant is the better passer (assisting on almost twice as many of his teammates' field goals when he is on the floor), while Anthony is the better offensive rebounder (grabbing more than twice as many available offensive rebounds) and is better at avoiding turnovers (10.1 turnovers per 100 plays compared to 13.9 for Durant).

Putting it all together, Durant produces an estimated 122 points per 100 possessions, the best rate in the league among high-volume scorers, while Anthony produces an estimated 114 points per 100 possessions, good for fifth among high-volume scorers.

A gap of eight points per 100 possessions is big, but it is a difference that could be made up by an elite defender. Alas, the words "elite defender" have never been used to describe Anthony.

Individual defense can be hard to quantify, as the traditional box score records only defensive rebounds, steals and blocks. While imperfect, these measures clearly give the edge to Durant:

• Durant grabs approximately 21.1 percent of available defensive rebounds while he is on the floor compared to 15.5 percent for Anthony.

• Durant averages about 2.0 steals per 100 opponent possessions when he is on the floor compared to 1.3 for Anthony.

• Durant blocks approximately 2.7 percent of opponent 2-point shots while he is on the floor compared to 1.3 percent for Anthony.

Looking at defense from a team standpoint gives the edge to Durant as well:

• Oklahoma City allows 103.8 points per 100 possessions while New York allows 105.7 points per 100 possessions.

• The Thunder defense allows about eight points per 100 possessions fewer when Durant is on the floor versus when he is off the floor.

• The Knicks defense allows about one point per 100 possessions more when Anthony is on the floor versus when he is off the floor.

Once again acknowledging the imperfection of the available data, there is nothing to suggest that Anthony has any kind of defensive advantage over Durant. In fact, the evidence points to Durant being the better defender.

Win shares is a statistic that attempts to summarize all of a player's accomplishments in a single number. Durant currently leads the NBA in both win shares (5.5) and win shares per 48 minutes (.280), while Anthony is 11th and 12th (3.0 and .204, respectively) in these categories.

None of this is meant to be an indictment of Anthony as a player -- it is an indictment of the primary argument being used to support him as MVP. Durant's clearly better season, coupled with the fact that Oklahoma City has the best record in the NBA, negates the "best player on the best team" argument. If you're looking for the MVP of the first eight weeks of the season, look no further than Durant.

lol @ the point where he started to hon in on things like assists. But But But But But what about the "HOCKEY ASSIST" KuBato Matata?

His Top 5 are

His top 5
1. Kevin Durant
2. Chris Paul
3. LeBron James
4. Tyson Chandler
5. Kobe Bryant

It's amazing the difference from 1 week 4gms played to 8weeks 24gms played but hey there's still time. And fans over on this forum think it's too early after 24gms to be discussing it.....Ha Ha Ha Ha

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=284813 Riveting Stuff

trololmnop!

That is a very reasonable top 5. I'm glad to see some people looking at the right data.

It depends on who holds votes if they will weigh their decision based on SMs with selecting an MVP. Being that Hollinger was promoted to a VP position based on his SMs, something tells me they will look more into than just raw numbers and eye tests....

you know more than wins/ppg/sick dunks/cool shoes/body armor/gold medals/t.v commercials/agent camps and whatnot

OGkush121 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:What the hell is Kobe Bryant doing this year that Carmelo is not besides realizing Mike D'antoni is not the answer?

He averages 2 more PPG and has 1 or 2 more percentage points in FG%.

And I think one thing I haven't heard anyone mention is that Melo plays less minutes per game than Kobe, Durant, Lebron, etc.
I think those 3-4 minutes could be worth a point or two wouldn't you agree?

You know, since we're talking about PPG. :)

IrishKnickFan wrote:who cares about the mvp. Chandler won the DPOY award but we lost in 5 games so i didnt care. After 12 years of misery i dont care about individual awards i want to compete for a title

YEP same here Irish.I WANT THE CHIP

cooch2584 wrote:

IrishKnickFan wrote:who cares about the mvp. Chandler won the DPOY award but we lost in 5 games so i didnt care. After 12 years of misery i dont care about individual awards i want to compete for a title

YEP same here Irish.I WANT THE CHIP

There is nothing wrong with wanting to see a guy get the recognition he deserves. You feel otherwise, then maybe you should post in another thread. This THREAD is for guys to debate if he is MVP worthy or not. Guys who don't care about these such things shouldn't be here.

Bonn1997 wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:What the hell is Kobe Bryant doing this year that Carmelo is not besides realizing Mike D'antoni is not the answer?

He averages 2 more PPG and has 1 or 2 more percentage points in FG%.

And I think one thing I haven't heard anyone mention is that Melo plays less minutes per game than Kobe, Durant, Lebron, etc.
I think those 3-4 minutes could be worth a point or two wouldn't you agree?

You know, since we're talking about PPG. :)

Kobe's stats for his position (rebounding, assists, steals) are much better than Melo's. That's why the two are not close in the sabermetrics.

Sabermetrics?!!

Melo and the Knicks 19-6 with a Win % of 76
Kobe and the Lakers 12-14 with a win % of 46.....Now explain to me why Kobe at this point deserves to be ahead of Melo?!