Nalod wrote:Swinny did not make a good case.
They need content so they create.
The fact the team is geared to offense than defense tells you he adopted to the roster.
Swinny assumes change is good. not always.

Which players are not the best version of themselves?

Is it KAT with his career high rebounds? OG with his career high scoring? Josh Hart with career highs in rebounding/steals/ppg/assists? Is that the guy?

reporter: What was your favorite part of playing for the Knicks? What do you remember the most?
Grimes: playing for Thibs

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Swinny did not make a good case.
They need content so they create.
The fact the team is geared to offense than defense tells you he adopted to the roster.
Swinny assumes change is good. not always.

there's no case. Nothing specific mentioned. No indication he's watching the games. They are .666 team with Brunson or about there.

Which players are not the best version of themselves?

Is it KAT with his career high rebounds? OG with his career high scoring? Josh Hart with career highs in rebounding/steals/ppg/assists? Is that the guy?

Preach!
Josh Hart went from "Who?" to like the best glue guy in the league. And Let's not forget about Hartenstein flourishing under Thibs. DDV. Even Randle.
Additionally, for all the bitching the minutes police constantly drone on about certain young players not getting enough minutes,
riddle me this: have you ever seen a team like these Thibs teams where stars/starters go down and bench players step in and excel and the team doesn't really seem to suffer?
And then the bench guys go down and the 3rd stringers step up like bosses? I mean, whaaat?!
How is that done? Thibs has everyone prepared, even if they are not getting minutes in games.

Seriously, can we lock this stupid thread?

Panos wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Nalod wrote:Swinny did not make a good case.
They need content so they create.
The fact the team is geared to offense than defense tells you he adopted to the roster.
Swinny assumes change is good. not always.

there's no case. Nothing specific mentioned. No indication he's watching the games. They are .666 team with Brunson or about there.

Which players are not the best version of themselves?

Is it KAT with his career high rebounds? OG with his career high scoring? Josh Hart with career highs in rebounding/steals/ppg/assists? Is that the guy?

Preach!
Josh Hart went from "Who?" to like the best glue guy in the league. And Let's not forget about Hartenstein flourishing under Thibs. DDV. Even Randle.
Additionally, for all the bitching the minutes police constantly drone on about certain young players not getting enough minutes,
riddle me this: have you ever seen a team like these Thibs teams where stars/starters go down and bench players step in and excel and the team doesn't really seem to suffer?
And then the bench guys go down and the 3rd stringers step up like bosses? I mean, whaaat?!
How is that done? Thibs has everyone prepared, even if they are not getting minutes in games.

Seriously, can we lock this stupid thread?

It's 2 different eras of course, but breaking Clyde's triple-dboule record speaks for itself. And Clyde had the ball in his hands a lot more.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/TheStrickland/status/1905671530333213044

UPDATE

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1907583818061537661

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/nyknicks/status/1907583818061537661

Is that even legal?

In most states but there are some weird rules those Christians don’t want to admit to

Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.

Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.

OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.

Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.

I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second.

Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.

Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.

OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.

Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.

I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.

TLDR your main issue is that Hart is not a great shooter and thus it's not a 5 out offense. So all these other four players are not being put in position to be their best selves because of one player on the floor, who by the way, gets the most assists and gets all the rebounds that OG and Mikal should be getting?
Is that it?

I think the "smart" Knick fan narrative is that problems would be solved by swapping Deuce for Hart because of the shooting, and that Hart's minutes why we can't maximize the offense. There's A LOT of things Hart can do that Deuce doesn't do well. Hart is a better rebounder, secondary playmaker, ball handler and transition finisher. You may gain in one spot, and lose in others. I don't think it's the magic bullet some may think. The offense hummed at times with Hart being a triple double machine on the floor. It comes down to decisiveness with the ball and making the next play - whether its taking an open shot or attacking the space or making the next pass. He did it well earlier in the year, and has been less effective lately. Part of it is also attacking the way teams defend us, so you bring Hart into the action early - have him initiate with Brunson off ball. Have him run pick and roll with Brunson. To me, this is what I would ask the coach to lean into more. And yes, Josh needs to turn it up and be more decisive. But a lot of players have to do more or do something better. Bridges needs way more aggression. KAT needs to stop complaining about fouls and stay focused, etc.

VDesai wrote:

Panos wrote:

Clean wrote:I totally forgot I posted that Clip. I think you guys are conflating 2 things. He never said no one is playing well. He said they are not in their best position to be the best version of themselves. Lets take a look at each player for a second.

Kat
KAT is best played in a lineup with a mobile defensive big on D and on offense is best when played in a 5 out system because that opens things up for everyone. Right now his defense sucks and we are not getting use out of him on offense like we expected because he is teamed with Hart and team just stick the center on him. His tendency is to drive to the hoop but that gets him in trouble because we are not 5 players out and the paint is always clogged. Kat is talented enough so he wil get numbers but he is not being put in the best position.

Hart
Having a career year but him being in as a starter mean the offense is clogged. He often gets put in lineups with Mitch and Precious. We almost always lose those minutes. Hart with the paint clogged goes periods where all he can do is shoot open 3's and hope he is making them that night. However, I think this problem is a Hart problem with the exception of the times Thibs plays him with 2 other non shooters. That is just pure idiotic.

OG and Bridges
OG and Bridges are kind of the same deal. They are finishers that are best when attacking a closeout or shooting after a playmaker set them up with an open shot. OG has added the rip through move and the euro step and that has increased his bag but if you notice he is still being setup with Brunson out. Bridges has become our playmaker in this new reality. Bridges is not the best playmaker but the best we have now that Brunson is out. Bridges and OG both go long periods without touching the ball because the later the game gets the more Bruncen centric out offense gets. It is why once Brunson is playing they take huge steps backwards. Both would do better in an offense with spacing and movement. In 2nd halfs they are stuck in ISO offense with clogged paint because of non shooters also on the court.

Brunson
Brunson is a great player and will play great in any situation but he would be best in a 5 out offense. We never play him in that because there is always a non shooter with him. We have no idea what his best is because we never seen it.

I am sure many won't agree and that's fine but its best we have a debate on what he actually said. I was going to do everyone but my interest went down fast LOL.

TLDR your main issue is that Hart is not a great shooter and thus it's not a 5 out offense. So all these other four players are not being put in position to be their best selves because of one player on the floor, who by the way, gets the most assists and gets all the rebounds that OG and Mikal should be getting?
Is that it?

I think the "smart" Knick fan narrative is that problems would be solved by swapping Deuce for Hart because of the shooting, and that Hart's minutes why we can't maximize the offense. There's A LOT of things Hart can do that Deuce doesn't do well. Hart is a better rebounder, secondary playmaker, ball handler and transition finisher. You may gain in one spot, and lose in others. I don't think it's the magic bullet some may think. The offense hummed at times with Hart being a triple double machine on the floor. It comes down to decisiveness with the ball and making the next play - whether its taking an open shot or attacking the space or making the next pass. He did it well earlier in the year, and has been less effective lately. Part of it is also attacking the way teams defend us, so you bring Hart into the action early - have him initiate with Brunson off ball. Have him run pick and roll with Brunson. To me, this is what I would ask the coach to lean into more. And yes, Josh needs to turn it up and be more decisive. But a lot of players have to do more or do something better. Bridges needs way more aggression. KAT needs to stop complaining about fouls and stay focused, etc.

Right, except you put Deuce in, and you just got small, and not enough rebounding. I've advocated elsewhere to start JB, Deuce, OG, KAT, Mitch, as a balanced lineup with shooting and defense, which also is not 5-out. Why are we suddenly so sure that 5-out is the magic elixir? And if so, we don't have the roster for it - you'll have to trade Hart for Derrick White.