Clean wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:People still arguing in here? I am just happy Huk and Kolek are finally getting their chances. I don't care what level they are playing at if you look for the right things you can see how a player can help a team if you know what the team needs. From summer league it was obvious Huk and Kolek could help this team. The one player I got totally wrong was Knox. Bro, what happened to him after summer league. I know nothing about Kevin Mccullar but getting like 3 triple doubles in the G league has to mean something. If we can get anything out of him I am happy.

How do you go about assessing if a player can help a team by their performance in SL? Especially for a mature playoff team that is going to playoffs with expectations.

I know I can't. At some point you have to admit that you should be a pro level coach and ditch your current job because NBA coaching pays a lot more.

Why didn't Deuce and IQ and whatnot perform well in their first year? Cause they had moments in the SL too. What separates IQ from Kolek?

I am genuinely interested in knowing what to look for that translates rookie SL performance into solid NBA playing time.

Kolek doesnt look like an NBA player. There's zero shot making or defense to his game. Zero. There's a reason Cam (vet min league player) is not only ahead of Kolek, but way ahead.

0 shot making? I see you are making the same mistake people made with McBride. Kolek can shoot just fine but you are not going to be rhythm when you don't get playing time. Everyone thought Mcbride was one of the worst shooting players in the league like his stats showed. Yet whenever he played consistant minutes in the g league he is could magically shoot. Once Quick got traded and consistant minutes opened up for him he could magically shoot. This is not a video game. Most players need consistant reps to shoot well from the outside.

Everyone except me.

I always knew Deuce had a solid mid range pullup. Showed it in college and G league. It was only a matter of time and minutes, to show it from 3 pt range. Deuce is also a hard worker, with higher goals and puts in the work. He's also a 2 way player, with a solid football background. So he's a grinder and a Thigs type player. He was coached in college by a Thibs type coach. McBrides development to where he's at now, was easy to predict, as long as Thibs and the roster gave him time.

VDesai wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:People still arguing in here? I am just happy Huk and Kolek are finally getting their chances. I don't care what level they are playing at if you look for the right things you can see how a player can help a team if you know what the team needs. From summer league it was obvious Huk and Kolek could help this team. The one player I got totally wrong was Knox. Bro, what happened to him after summer league. I know nothing about Kevin Mccullar but getting like 3 triple doubles in the G league has to mean something. If we can get anything out of him I am happy.

How do you go about assessing if a player can help a team by their performance in SL? Especially for a mature playoff team that is going to playoffs with expectations.

I know I can't. At some point you have to admit that you should be a pro level coach and ditch your current job because NBA coaching pays a lot more.

Why didn't Deuce and IQ and whatnot perform well in their first year? Cause they had moments in the SL too. What separates IQ from Kolek?

I am genuinely interested in knowing what to look for that translates rookie SL performance into solid NBA playing time.

Kolek doesnt look like an NBA player. There's zero shot making or defense to his game. Zero. There's a reason Cam (vet min league player) is not only ahead of Kolek, but way ahead.

This is not exactly fair. He's a 2nd round rookie and is only now starting to show us what he has. What we know he can do (and his top skill) is what he's showing us first. He has elite passing ability and knows how to deliver the ball in a way where shooters are confident to score.

In order to be sustainable, he has to provide the threat of offense because defenses will overplay his tendencies. He had a couple of nice drives, but he also had a couple of disastrous ones. He also needs to stick and open 3 and hit a pull up 3 against defenses that will give him space against the top. What we saw in preseason was some pretty nice 3 point shooting. What we saw at Marquette was a nice blend of 3 pt shooting and a bit of a float game. Can he bring those to the NBA level? Its what separates the Dan Dickaus from the John Stocktons.

But to say he's not an NBA player is as absurd as saying he should have been playing all year. Neither position makes sense to me.

VDesai, This is probably the most reasonable response I've heard so far in this thread, and I agree 100%

Kolek is fine. He's going to play mistake free basketball (for now), so what you see is what he's naturally gifted at doing. If he's a hard worker, give him time and you will see his wings open.
Every NBA player did not look like an NBA player at first. Some actually grow into their expectations and others don't. It's foolish to cancel a players NBA career before it even started. I don't care if he's 33. Once you get over the nerves, play free without feeling you will be bench after every mistake, your game is different. That could change in one game. And Tibs (Which is how his name is pronounced) puts a lot of pressure on rookies to play mistake free ball, but thats not possible or natural. Kolek has a long NBA career ahead of him. I see him as a solid NBA PG on the offensive end. The jury is still out as far as his defense. But JB is the perfect PG for Kolek to learn from. JB is a scorer learning to play make. Kolek the creator is a creator, learning to score at the NBA level. If and when he does, look out.

blkexec wrote:

Clean wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:People still arguing in here? I am just happy Huk and Kolek are finally getting their chances. I don't care what level they are playing at if you look for the right things you can see how a player can help a team if you know what the team needs. From summer league it was obvious Huk and Kolek could help this team. The one player I got totally wrong was Knox. Bro, what happened to him after summer league. I know nothing about Kevin Mccullar but getting like 3 triple doubles in the G league has to mean something. If we can get anything out of him I am happy.

How do you go about assessing if a player can help a team by their performance in SL? Especially for a mature playoff team that is going to playoffs with expectations.

I know I can't. At some point you have to admit that you should be a pro level coach and ditch your current job because NBA coaching pays a lot more.

Why didn't Deuce and IQ and whatnot perform well in their first year? Cause they had moments in the SL too. What separates IQ from Kolek?

I am genuinely interested in knowing what to look for that translates rookie SL performance into solid NBA playing time.

Kolek doesnt look like an NBA player. There's zero shot making or defense to his game. Zero. There's a reason Cam (vet min league player) is not only ahead of Kolek, but way ahead.

0 shot making? I see you are making the same mistake people made with McBride. Kolek can shoot just fine but you are not going to be rhythm when you don't get playing time. Everyone thought Mcbride was one of the worst shooting players in the league like his stats showed. Yet whenever he played consistant minutes in the g league he is could magically shoot. Once Quick got traded and consistant minutes opened up for him he could magically shoot. This is not a video game. Most players need consistant reps to shoot well from the outside.

Everyone except me.

I always knew Deuce had a solid mid range pullup. Showed it in college and G league. It was only a matter of time and minutes, to show it from 3 pt range. Deuce is also a hard worker, with higher goals and puts in the work. He's also a 2 way player, with a solid football background. So he's a grinder and a Thigs type player. He was coached in college by a Thibs type coach. McBrides development to where he's at now, was easy to predict, as long as Thibs and the roster gave him time.

Thing w/ McBride was even as a raw 21 year old rookie he looked like he belonged physically. Kolek is fast but nobody seems too concerned about it. He made 3-4 fantastic passes last night for buckets. The other 3-4 assists were those Haliburton dimes where he gets them for dribbling a ton and passing to someone who hits their 3

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Clean wrote:Look I was just talking about the other posters arguing. I am not about to get sucked into an argument. We will just agree to disagree for now and time will tell who is right. 17 asts to 0 turnovers seem like an NBA player to me but thats OK if you disagree. I just wanted to talk about what I saw in our rookies in summer league lol.

there's no right or wrong. Im glad you are excited about him. You and VDesai actually watch the games so it's good input. I see a fast player with a handle but it gets really thin after that and he's not a young prospect at 21. At 24 I do have some different expectations and of course there are team needs.

There's a notion around here that this kid is rotting on the bench, but he's never looked like someone who should be in this rotation. He's gonna get a bit more burn... hopefully he turns a corner.

Kolek provides something we don't have, which is why fans are quick to rush him into the game. He's a NATURAL PLAYMAKER. And he's the only one on the team, after Hart. We have a team full of scorers and 2 way defenders (OG and Mikal). We don't have natural playmakers like Kolek. If you saying he's not ready, sure. But we all have our differences in determining who's ready and how to get them ready. Some believe sitting on the bench with a notepad gets you ready. Others, like myself, believe you have to play at NBA game speed, under the whistle and not just in practice, to get ready. Unfortunately, we have a coach who's old school (good or bad). So these guys will not get in the game, until our coach says he's ready or after a major injury.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Clean wrote:Look I was just talking about the other posters arguing. I am not about to get sucked into an argument. We will just agree to disagree for now and time will tell who is right. 17 asts to 0 turnovers seem like an NBA player to me but thats OK if you disagree. I just wanted to talk about what I saw in our rookies in summer league lol.

there's no right or wrong. Im glad you are excited about him. You and VDesai actually watch the games so it's good input. I see a fast player with a handle but it gets really thin after that and he's not a young prospect at 21. At 24 I do have some different expectations and of course there are team needs.

There's a notion around here that this kid is rotting on the bench, but he's never looked like someone who should be in this rotation. He's gonna get a bit more burn... hopefully he turns a corner.

Kolek provides something we don't have, which is why fans are quick to rush him into the game. He's a NATURAL PLAYMAKER. And he's the only one on the team, after Hart. We have a team full of scorers and 2 way defenders (OG and Mikal). We don't have natural playmakers like Kolek. If you saying he's not ready, sure. But we all have our differences in determining who's ready and how to get them ready. Some believe sitting on the bench with a notepad gets you ready. Others, like myself, believe you have to play at NBA game speed, under the whistle and not just in practice, to get ready. Unfortunately, we have a coach who's old school (good or bad). So these guys will not get in the game, until our coach says he's ready or after a major injury.

KAT might actually be the best passer on the team. Actually wish he would do that more

Glad you brought that up. Passing will be the key to our playoff run. We don't have a lot of creators off the dribble, but KAT is a great big man for a Triangle offense or High-Low offense, similar to iHart. But KAT can't do everything (eventhough he's multi-talented). But I agree, this offense needs him, hart and others to be more playmakers, for guys like Mikal and others. Some of the players we have are perfect for that pass and cut system, or back door passes.

But Kolek definitely looks raw physically. I was looking more at his defense than offense, and if he doesn't learn how to balance scoring and passing, Thibs will send him back to the G league. With that said, I still prefer Kolek and Deuce backcourt over Payne. Deuce needs a PG like Kolek. Mikal needs to run with the second unit, who also needs a passer like Kolek. I'm talking about the minutes when KAT and JB are on the bench. Hart is great in Full court. Kolek is a better passer in Half court settings.

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Clean wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

Clean wrote:People still arguing in here? I am just happy Huk and Kolek are finally getting their chances. I don't care what level they are playing at if you look for the right things you can see how a player can help a team if you know what the team needs. From summer league it was obvious Huk and Kolek could help this team. The one player I got totally wrong was Knox. Bro, what happened to him after summer league. I know nothing about Kevin Mccullar but getting like 3 triple doubles in the G league has to mean something. If we can get anything out of him I am happy.

How do you go about assessing if a player can help a team by their performance in SL? Especially for a mature playoff team that is going to playoffs with expectations.

I know I can't. At some point you have to admit that you should be a pro level coach and ditch your current job because NBA coaching pays a lot more.

Why didn't Deuce and IQ and whatnot perform well in their first year? Cause they had moments in the SL too. What separates IQ from Kolek?

I am genuinely interested in knowing what to look for that translates rookie SL performance into solid NBA playing time.

Kolek doesnt look like an NBA player. There's zero shot making or defense to his game. Zero. There's a reason Cam (vet min league player) is not only ahead of Kolek, but way ahead.

0 shot making? I see you are making the same mistake people made with McBride. Kolek can shoot just fine but you are not going to be rhythm when you don't get playing time. Everyone thought Mcbride was one of the worst shooting players in the league like his stats showed. Yet whenever he played consistant minutes in the g league he is could magically shoot. Once Quick got traded and consistant minutes opened up for him he could magically shoot. This is not a video game. Most players need consistant reps to shoot well from the outside.

Everyone except me.

I always knew Deuce had a solid mid range pullup. Showed it in college and G league. It was only a matter of time and minutes, to show it from 3 pt range. Deuce is also a hard worker, with higher goals and puts in the work. He's also a 2 way player, with a solid football background. So he's a grinder and a Thigs type player. He was coached in college by a Thibs type coach. McBrides development to where he's at now, was easy to predict, as long as Thibs and the roster gave him time.

I have no gain in being right. I hope I am wrong on Kolek and after Cam turns an ankle Kolek has the first 50/20 game in Knicks rookie history.

Thing w/ McBride was even as a raw 21 year old rookie he looked like he belonged physically. Kolek is fast but nobody seems too concerned about it. He made 3-4 fantastic passes last night for buckets. The other 3-4 assists were those Haliburton dimes where he gets them for dribbling a ton and passing to someone who hits their 3

These are questions to make sure I understand your angle on Kolek more. Do you think people who wanted him to get a try think he is going to be an All-Star or something? If that is the case that might be where our disconnect is. I see Kolek as a roleplayer. A roleplayer who brings something the team needs. One thing I have noticed is that these past two games I have not seen that clunky offense when he subbed into the game. You seem to discount some of his assist but if it was that easy the other Knicks guards would be doing it. You see McBride trying to play PG? Hows that NBA ready body that you talked about before helping him play point guard well?

Playing PG is not only about flashy passes or threading the needle. It can be running the offense and giving guys the perfect simple pass in their shooting pocket. It can be a simple pass that gets to the player the second their defender turns their head giving them that extra second to get an uncontested shot.
2 Players can make the same simple pass and if the shooter has to reach to catch the pass that can mess up their shot or give the defense enough time to recover.
There is much more to being a good passing point guard. Knick fans should appreciate this fact especially since we went without one for such a long time.

My goals for Kolek at this point with the very little experience he has is to compete on defense. Run the offense and get the ball to the open man. If teams leave you open take the shot. I am not expecting him to make them at a good percentage until he gets enough time but if he does get consistant minutes then he needs to make those open shots. The man has like 3 legit games played this season where he is not surrounded by end of the bench guys the whole time. He is going to improve to be even better than he is now.

VDesai wrote:Payne gets no credit for playing 30+ min of lead PG during a game where we share/move the ball as well as any gamr this year?

PG is more than assists. Payne is playing a very credible PG and has all year IMO.

I can't speak for others but Cam is a known entity for me. Just because I don't go out of my way to praise him does not mean he gets no credit. He can win you games and he can lose you games. He will be annoying to other teams and he can get some needed defensive stops at times. In my opinion focusing on a player you already know is not fun. We also need an alternative for those bad Cam games. He has helped these last two games but don't forget he just went like a month with extremely poor shooting.

Miami is 32-41. 10th seed.

Meanwhile Thibs got Noel, Randle, RJ, Bullock, Elfrid ****ing Payton to a 41-31 4th seed.

GSW are 41-31 right now, with all world talent Steph Curry. BTW

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:I'm still staring at the standings and wondering how Spo cannot get his team to play .500 ball with Bam and Herro and company. Those guys are all stars.

Miami is 32-41. 10th seed.

Meanwhile Thibs got Noel, Randle, RJ, Bullock, Elfrid ****ing Payton to a 41-31 4th seed.

GSW are 41-31 right now, with all world talent Steph Curry. BTW

Warren Buffet says leadership is not a "Moat." Meaning year in year out, you can't rely on it to provide a competetive advantage. Meaning that people are unpredicatable and changes in health, personal life, etc. can cause a large shift in performance. Supposedly Spoelstra's personal life/divorce etc. are an issue. A similar thing has happened this year the best coach in Soccer, Pep Guardiola. They can have an affect on focus.

I'd expect Spo to bounc back, but whatever is going on with him + the locker room with the Jimmy Saga this year is some outsized chemistry stuff and its still a pretty medicore roster to begin with.

You get the point though, right? Wonder what Kerr is going.

And it's relative to this mediocre talent: Noel, Randle, RJ, Bullock, Elfrid ****ing Payton.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/TheStrickland/status/1905671530333213044

OG is having a career best year as well.

Off the top of my head. Without having to use more than a few brain cells. Within seconds of pondering the topic.

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/TheStrickland/status/1905671530333213044