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here is the channing frye scenario
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Ira
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6/26/2005  8:46 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by BRIGGS:

I'll just show an example of what I meant. AZ and ASU was on TV the last game of the regular season. AZ employs "double and triple teaming" of Diogu because they hav a bunch of inferior talents on the wing--stopping Diogu stops ASU, so teams use 2 and 3 defenders. I can illustrate on paper what I mean by Diogu pushing Frye into the hoop, but atleast you can get a boxscore that kind of tells the tale. This is a game I watched, in many cases going by a boxscore is misleading but in this case i back up visual fact with numbers

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/boxscore?gid=200503050018

Thats another part that is not stressed. While guys Like Diogu and Bogut faced double and triple teaming every game all year, AZ has NBA talent at almost every position which makes it impossible to crowd Frye. Frye gets to play 1-1 and those guys play for th most part 2-1/3-1 because they are so superior to their teammates


this is AZ last game of the reg season THIS year.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06/26/2005 17:31:43]

Briggs, nice post.

The box certainly looks like Ike had a big offensive game, while Frye's was off. I think I can picture what you mean about Diogu pushing Frye into the hoop. At the same time Frye almost doubles Ike's boards (9-5) and had more blocks and assists. Did those areas of his performance come through while you were watching?

Also, I posted some excerpts from a draftnet report on Frye on this thread. Do you think they're valid? If not, why do you think these perceptions of him exist?

Over the course of last season, playing in the same conference

Diogu....22.6 pts @58%...9.8 rbnds...2.3 blks
Frye.....15.8 pts @55%...7,4 rbnds...2.3 blks
AUTOADVERT
rvhoss
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6/26/2005  9:04 PM
I like what I've read:

http://www.msgnetwork.com/content_news.jsp?articleID=v132306-18-05-1625EDT&newsgroup=ap.sportsml.basketball.nba.news/other&sports=basketball&team=other&league=nba

what he's saying about himself:
"I feel more explosive. I can dunk through the legs now easy," Frye said. "Just my ability to get to the hole quicker is better. I may not look extremely big but I think I can lift with the best of them. It doesn't matter how much you weigh as long as you get the job done."

and the demeanor he portrays in this shot.



I have to do a little more research on Bynum, at one point he was thought to be able to be had at 30, so I'm suprised he's moved up so much.


[Edited by - rvhoss on 06/26/2005 21:13:44]
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BRIGGS
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6/26/2005  9:13 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

This photo may have sold me on Frye.


He's a 4 year CBB player. I would think such a highly regarded safe big would go much higher than 8. Bigs are impossible to get. You would think one of the 30 teams would have the arsenal to push up into the draft. One step better--if Frye was so good--and GS wanted him so badly-- knowing that the Knicks traded for Q--why doesnt GS simply ask Tor to draft Frye at 7 and they draft their guy at 9[which is Wright or Graham] and throw in a future 1? I mean bigs are worth it, no?

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nyk4ever
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6/26/2005  9:15 PM
I'd add something to this but I think Briggs has said absolutely everything that is necessary to be said. I've watched Frye play with my own eyes while he was at Arizona and he was NEVER a player I wanted the Knicks to get. Briggs, a bunch of really good posts my friend and you know we don't agree on much but this and Bynum have been something we've agreed on for a long time.
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rvhoss
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6/26/2005  9:26 PM
Then I watched this:
http://video.msn.com/video/p.htm?i=c55fdc22-8fcd-4302-b024-7b6c91219d43&rf=http://broadcast.organicframework.com/p/FOX-Sports-NBA-Diogu-Frye-work-toward-draft___427,28527.html

Can somebody get me some Bynum Footage?

I'm more interested in his ability to continue to improve himself even after the season is over and during draft speculation.

That too me make him sound like a hard worker and someone looking to do his best to contribute ASAP.

He'd be a starter much sooner than Bynum IMHO.
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rvhoss
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6/26/2005  9:37 PM
Also, keep in mind, 4 year players excel in the pros. Duncan, LJ,

At this point, I'm not looking for a star, I'm looking for someone to fill in where we are lacking.

Athletic center that can block shots and hit the jumper.

He sounds like what we are missing...we have marbs, TT, Q and Crawford to fill the scoring punch, Sweets, TT and MoT provide a post up option.

I think he fills the pick and roll void left by Kurt and has a high basketball IQ. (or so it seems).

At this point, I think our direction and core are set, and the key is to fill that dalembart void we were so craving.
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Vmart
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6/26/2005  9:38 PM
To be fair to frye his numbers are not that bad. Sometimes its the system the player plays in that determine the numbers. If you guys look at Rasheed Wallace his numbers are very average but his impact is huge on the game. Even though Frye might not of put up numbers he played his system and he did decently in it.

I still want Bynum because he is a legitimate center and Frye well is a PF more so than a center.
rvhoss
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6/26/2005  9:42 PM
Can't we just let bynum get picked up by some other team and go after him in 3 years (like we are attempting with Curry and Kwame) and gobble him up then.

I'm sure by then we will have turned things around and will be battling lebron in the playoffs...players will want to be here and put us over the hump.
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Marv
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6/26/2005  9:44 PM
Posted by Redsoxrule:

Marvin,
Like Sox? Nope. LOVE 'EM!
12 out of 13 and starting to run away.
Enjoy your playoffless offseason, Skankee fan. Tonight you'll be swept by the mighty Mets at home. LOL
Bye bye.
Come big or stay home.
DFWM,
RSR

Aw, I see what happened here - too many Fenway franks. I always heard the nitrates cut off oxygen to the brain.
crzymdups
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6/26/2005  9:58 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


He's a 4 year CBB player. I would think such a highly regarded safe big would go much higher than 8. Bigs are impossible to get. You would think one of the 30 teams would have the arsenal to push up into the draft. One step better--if Frye was so good--and GS wanted him so badly-- knowing that the Knicks traded for Q--why doesnt GS simply ask Tor to draft Frye at 7 and they draft their guy at 9[which is Wright or Graham] and throw in a future 1? I mean bigs are worth it, no?

this may very well happen...
Briggs, I have no problem with someone who watched Frye giving their opinion. I saw that ASU/Zona game, and Diogu did well, Frye didn't shoot well. Zona still won, and it was the only game Frye has played against ASU that wasn't a blowout win for Frye and Zona, so it's not like Diogu was THAT dominant. yeah Diogu can use his bulk in college, but the NBA offers far more complicated zone defenses and much bigger competition from every position on the floor, in the NBA it isn't a 6'2" SF coming over to double team, it's a 6'9" SF who can swat your shot. Ask Mike Sweetney how that works. I don't think Frye will have to adapt his game at ALL in the pros. He faced single coverage in school, why wouldn't he in the pros? it's not like he's going to post up that much, he's a pick and roll player...People are gonna sag from the perimeter and leave our mad bomber squadron open?
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diderotn
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6/26/2005  10:46 PM
What is it with you fans??? You all are acting like the decision will be yours...get a freaking grip. If Isiah choses to go with Frye, so what....I can understand your infatuations with big youngin (Bynum), but who's to say that Bynum will no be a bust in the NBA??? No one knows that. He is big and that is about it. Dallas had one of the tallest cat on their roster and he turned out to be a bust. Talents come in all shapes...Give Isiah and his staff a chance, he will find us the talents necessary. From Briggs and many others, take a chill pill. The draft is on Tuesday at 7:30 pm, let's see how Isiah does...
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nyk4ever
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6/26/2005  10:53 PM
Posted by diderotn:

What is it with you fans???

We are voicing opinions.. it's what being a fan is all about.
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Bonn1997
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6/26/2005  10:55 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Frye has two inches on Kurt, has longer arms and can do something which Kurt hasn't been able to do for years because of his ankles: JUMP.
He also has about 10 to 15 pounds on Kurt
diderotn
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6/26/2005  10:57 PM
Frye may turn out to be a hall of famer for what we know. He has the built, he just has to develop the mental part. With proper coaching, this kid can be a hell of a lot better than we are expecting. I trust Isiah....
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Allanfan20
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6/27/2005  1:32 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by crzymdups:

Frye has two inches on Kurt, has longer arms and can do something which Kurt hasn't been able to do for years because of his ankles: JUMP.
He also has about 10 to 15 pounds on Kurt

Doesn't make him a better player.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
crzymdups
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6/27/2005  1:58 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by crzymdups:

Frye has two inches on Kurt, has longer arms and can do something which Kurt hasn't been able to do for years because of his ankles: JUMP.
He also has about 10 to 15 pounds on Kurt

Doesn't make him a better player.

...but the two inches and thirty pounds Bynum has on Frye makes Bynum the better prospect?
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Allanfan20
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6/27/2005  2:16 AM
Hey man, I just go by what I hear, and just about everyone who claims to have seen Bynum play says he wont be any more than an NBA role player and that he's also a tweener, while Bynum has a killer work ethic, good intelligence and is very skilled. I'll take that. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I'll also take Granger, Grahem and Green over Frye as well, and maybe even Hakim Warrick and Wayne Simien.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Bonn1997
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6/27/2005  8:14 AM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by crzymdups:

Frye has two inches on Kurt, has longer arms and can do something which Kurt hasn't been able to do for years because of his ankles: JUMP.
He also has about 10 to 15 pounds on Kurt

Doesn't make him a better player.
I'd take Frye over Kurt as my starting center any day.
diderotn
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6/27/2005  8:36 AM
You are nuts...is Kurt that good??? Sweetney is a much better player than Kurt is right now....If you give Sweetney as many minutes as Kurt has gotten this season, his numbers will look much better. Most of all, he goes to the free throw lines a lot more than Kurt has in 2 years...

Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by crzymdups:

Frye has two inches on Kurt, has longer arms and can do something which Kurt hasn't been able to do for years because of his ankles: JUMP.
He also has about 10 to 15 pounds on Kurt

Doesn't make him a better player.
The true Knickabocker..........
MS
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6/27/2005  9:39 AM
Whats this kids vertical if its not over 32 inches no liking picking him up, if he is not a dunker around the basket there is no reason to take him.....

I'd take Brynum, this team is a couple of years away, Ariza, richardson are young, you build for the future not to get to the 1st round of the playoffs
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here is the channing frye scenario
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