Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Nalod:

Taylor trade did not yield us any picks! We could have bought out mooch for very little money to open up a spot.

I like the Rose deal for the picks, and hes a good player.

I'm just curious because you and Fish seem to think the same way on the Taylor deal. You don't think that when Taylors contract in the final year will be much more valuable to Isiah then Vin and Moochies contract? I personally agree with Guns since the Taylor contract is larger that it will allow us to trade his expiring contract for a much better player. Am I that wrong in thinking that?

Here's the thing... Vin and Moochie's contracts (as expiring deals) had value this coming year. Also smaller deals are easier to work with than larger onces, so no, I dont think they are as valuable.

Now forget about the cash, but with Mo Taylor you have to wait a whole extra year, and the roster space is an issue. Mo Taylor gives us nothing we didnt already have. We have JYD... his deal expires the same time Taylor's does. Why trade add another?

All your doing with Taylor is making the process longer. Its an expiring deal. Its not like a future draft pick. An expiring deal isnt really an asset, its flexibility. The asset is being able to take on more money.

We had Jerome and Houston. Thats $28mm in expiring deals. Why do we need more 2 years from now? Thats just some crap you say to the media to make them stop asking you questions

I'm hoping we can be a contender after Houston is gone by 2007! the last thing I want is to have to wait until after 2008 when Webber's contract comes off the books.

Sure KT and Rose's deals expire after 2008 too but they have very moveable contracts unlike Webber. With guys like Houston & Webber you have only 2 choices:
1) hope they retire
2) wait until they expire

because you can't move those kind of players who are 35,gimpy & make $20mil!

I can't believe how many of you disagree with the trade for Mo. I guess that some of you are brain-washed by the garbage that the media has put out. Looking around the league right now, there is no player (PF/C) that will be available with the skills that Mo possess right now. One of the biggest problems that Isiah or the Knicks has this season is point in the paint. They have taken the wrong approach early on by failing to instill Sweetney our only player with that type of skills in the starting lineup to replace either Kurt or Nazr, and the result has shown. Isiah took the right approach by addressing what could become a potentially huge problem later on if we reach the playoffs either this season or next. Yest the contract is a little too big, but as someone has poited out earlier, it will expire at the same time as Houston. By then we will have a bunch of young and hungry players on our roster which will be able to step in and replace the old farts.

TT and Penny's contracts will expire next season, while Ariza and whomever we draft will be more than ready to replace them. that is approximately 30 millions off of our payroll next year.

year after, Houston and Mo's contracts will also be available to come off our payroll. That is another 30 millions, by that time the young JB will be more than ready to do his things, and Crawf will have enough maturity to become a true star.

substract those 4 contracts off of our payroll, the Knicks will be 60 million richer.

We are crying about the contracts now, but they will all be very valuable at the end...Patience, let Isiah do his things. To build a championship, it takes those types of moves to get to where we really want to be. After all, Layden is to blame for us being in the position that we are at right now. Isiah inherited the problem, and he is using proper mathematical formulas to resolve it.

Posted by fishmike:

diderotn, "looking around the league now" is EXACTLY what Layden did and that total lack of vision is the difference between good franchises and bad ones. Look no further than our star child Marbury. The start of the year he was on the cover of ESPN w/ Marion and Amare with the title "Rising Suns."
6 months later he was had for 2 expiring deals and a couple draft picks.
I'm talking about being as flexible as you can right now, because when those opportunities come up you have to be able to capitalize. Not having expiring deals kept us from getting Sheed.

So expiring deals actually can help you get good players?

Fish! What would you call Penny and TT's contracts????? Won't they expire next season?

Posted by fishmike:

diderotn, "looking around the league now" is EXACTLY what Layden did and that total lack of vision is the difference between good franchises and bad ones. Look no further than our star child Marbury. The start of the year he was on the cover of ESPN w/ Marion and Amare with the title "Rising Suns."
6 months later he was had for 2 expiring deals and a couple draft picks.
I'm talking about being as flexible as you can right now, because when those opportunities come up you have to be able to capitalize. Not having expiring deals kept us from getting Sheed.

Dido.. the average salary in the NBA is about $5mm (thus the mid-level exception). TT and Penny make over $10mm. What is NO wants to move Magloire for expiring deals and a pick? Or another team wants to move some guy in the last year of his rookie contract because they dont want to resign him... say a guy like Nene? Because of Mo Taylor and that trade we took ourselves out of those options. Now if you want to move someone Webber, Finely, Jalen Rose, Eddie Jones or Brian Grant... well just call MSG because the Knicks are the team you want to deal with.

and $$$'s only matter when you don't have a franchise player that you can win with. you think dallas is able to operate and still win with that payroll if they didn't make a draft day deal for dirk? that's lottery gold.

UNTIL we get that type of player in the draft, we are stuck in mediocrity, exchanging bad contract for bad contract and prolonging the inevitable of getting to the point where the cap is manageable. this is where the HUGE payroll does matter b/c we lack flexibility getting that franchise player. by operating the way we do, where we don't suck enough to get that top 3 draft pick, we'll keep bringing in good flawed players - the ones that are available in contract deals. we're not in a dead end situation but i feel that since we are in this salary cap mess, we need to get really lucky in the draft and hope to build that way. otherwise our flexibility to improve is seriously hindered by trying to trade $10+ mil players.

yes, we can trade tim. yes, we can trade penny, but in all reality, what player will we get in return? toine? sar? somebody like that. they will help but ultimately, i feel, that it will be our draft picks that will determine whether we get to the championship type level.

Posted by fishmike:

is Mo Taylor bette then KT, Sweetney, Rose or JYD? I dont see anything Mo Taylor offers that one or two or four of those guys dont allready offer.

that's the BIG thing, he's not. it didn't address ANY need. some argue that he's a post player in the 2nd unit. to that i say hogwash. he's a PF that like to shoot and that's it. if they made that deal for a piece that we needed like a defensive SF/SG/PG - ruben patterson, even doug f'n christie i would've understood. but not mo taylor. in this case, i think houston said this is our final offer or we're pulling it from the table and isiah buckled and said yes.

Paterson would have helped us... especially if they were hoping for a playoff run.

I'm not rooting against him... I'm actually more like you than people would think. The minunte they put on the uni they are one of our guys. I hope Mo Taylor is great and he helps us one way or another.

It doesnt mean I have to like the trade or pretend it made an ounce of sense.

Posted by diderotn:

I won't giveup on Mo, because I believe that he will be a huge asset for the Knicks. Talking or criticize that trade now is worthless, because he is already part of our family, therefore we have to embrace him. How do we know if he will not finally reach his overall potentials as a Knicks? Perhaps with the titulage of Agwire he can become the defensive monster that we wish for him to be...

diderotn,

after reading your post i don't quite know what to say.

i mean, you can basically insert any bum in the NBA in the place of Mo, but would that be logic?

methinksnot