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Knicks get two FIRST ROUND PICKS!!!! NY/HOU/SA
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Solace
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2/24/2005  6:17 PM
www.fireisiahthomas.com
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
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Andrew
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2/24/2005  6:17 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Okay..so now we didn't get a first rounder but gave up a 2nd rounder for Mo Freaking Taylor and his awful freaking contract? We just paid top freaking Dollar for Mo Taylor with 5 PF's on the roster.

Vin Baker, Moochie are top dollar?
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EnySpree
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2/24/2005  6:18 PM
Geez I'm late on this.....

I'm happy.....Isiah did the right thing. I was preaching either reload with vets or try to get some draft picks.....He chose to get the picks....good choice.

Malik Rose is a player fellas. You guys are too harsh. He's a high energy player who can rebound, play defense and finish around the basket. He's a nice player......I also agree his stay in New York will be short lived.

As far as Maurice Taylor.....he's fat. That's all I can say. He used to be a nice player before he moved next to that 7 eleven when he got to Houston. He's still has a nice post game and can finish strong inside but he's fat......He has a role with this team though. He is a nice scoring option to have off the bench....with his contract he'll have to be.

One thing I can say about these trade is roster spots....Isiah must have a few people he's looking at in the free agent pool. Maybe Eddie Robinson and Smush Parker?

[Edited by - enyspree on 02/24/2005 18:23:11]
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teslawlo
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2/24/2005  6:20 PM
I'd like to share an excellent post on realgm by vinnievegas69:
-----
Example 1) People have been bitching all year for Isiah to make trades for our future that will help us.

Then they complain that he didn't get high enough picks when he trades for two more 1st round picks with garbage.

Example 2) People have been saying that we should tank the season and try to get as high a pick as possible.

The two picks were acquired in trades that made the team significantly worse, which will equal more losses, which will equal a higher pick, yet people still complain that the trades left us without a starting center or backup PG. I don't WANT a starting center or backup PG on the team, because we won't win games without them.

Example 3) People claim Isiah is great at drafting players, many even using his nickname "The Eye", saying that he even turned pick#43 into Trevor Ariza, a great young player.

Yet people complain that the draft picks he got were too late in the draft... I don't know about you guys, but if he managed to pick up more guys that were on the skill level and maturity of Ariza at 19 years of age, I'd be happy, let alone the possibility, even the likelihood that he'll get better players with higher picks.

Example 4) People want Isiah to let the contracts expire so we can lower our cap number.

Yet, they also complain when he trades them away because they were valuable trade bait for the future.

Here's a news flash: Maurice Taylor's contract expires the same year Houston's does, and while Rose's goes a year longer, we'll already be paying $20 million to Marbury and $8 million to Crawford, plus will have given Ariza a reasonable contract, Sweetney will be getting $3.5 million and there's likely to be other contracted players on the roster who will end up putting us over the cap anyway. So stop complaining about contracts, because until the Marbury contract clears, and we don't actually add any more long term salaries, including what we may have to pay at least one of our draft picks (you'd assume), then being under the cap is not an option.

Example 5) People claim that they want to use the expiring contracts of Nazr, Vin and Moochie along with those of Penny Hardaway and Tim Thomas to trade for ELTON BRAND, which I'm sure the Clippers were bending over for...

And then they have the nerve to accuse Isiah of making bad trades...

In short, all I'm saying is, there are two sides to every coin, and from where I stand, the trades have a considerable upside for us. I'm assuming KT will be moved in the offseason, and that Isiah will look for significant help at center, at which point we should be looking reasonably good.

People just need to stop complaining about every move that is or isn't made. Isiah Thomas is making a young core out of this train wreck. This is the roster he took over with.

About.Com 2003-2004 preview wrote:

Depth Chart
C: Dikembe Mutombo | Michael Doleac | Slavko Vranes
PF: Antonio McDyess | Kurt Thomas | Othella Harrington | Mike Sweetney
SF: Keith Van Horn | Maciej Lampe
SG: Allan Houston | Shandon Anderson
PG: Howard Eisley | Charlie Ward | Frank Williams

Franchise Player: Allan Houston
Breakout: Mmmmmm ... no

Our franchise player was Allan Houston, and a breakout from anyone seemed ludicrous.

Now, our roster only holds over Houston and Thomas, whom Isiah was unable to trade, and Sweetney, who Isiah finally pulled of the IR and got on the court.

Looking back at that roster, there was no one on it as good as marbury for sure, and I'd say that there was no one as good as Crawford on there either, considering Houston's injury had already occurred. Barring Sweetney, none of those young players have the promise of Trevor Ariza, and while Van Horn's numbers were decent, he was never the difference between winning and losing.

There's still work to be done, but adding 3 first round picks to the core of Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, Sweetney cannot be a bad thing.

Remember the one year that Golden State drafted Jason Richardson, Troy Murphy and Gilbert Arenas, and it was starting to look like they'd set themselves up for the future, only to screw it up by not giving Arenas a 3 year deal. It could be like that for us this year; a top 7 pick like Richardson was. A non-lottery teens pick like Murphy was, and a pick in the 30's like Arenas was, with the one difference being that the 30th pick is a 1st rounder now, with all of the benefits of restricted free agency that that provides, rather than facing an Arenas-style situation.

I know this post has been really long, but I really like these moves for our future, and so I wanted to post something stating that, and hey, this is a lot shorter than the pages and pages of bitching in the official thread...
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MaTT4281
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2/24/2005  6:22 PM
Posted by Solace:

www.fireisiahthomas.com
Definately too soon for those sites. To go a little off topic, anyone else here post at www.firelayden.com when it was up and running?
Solace
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2/24/2005  6:28 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Solace:

www.fireisiahthomas.com
Definately too soon for those sites. To go a little off topic, anyone else here post at www.firelayden.com when it was up and running?

I'm just annoyed that we made such a dumb trade with Houston.

As for firelayden.com, sure, I checked it from time to time. :)
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  6:30 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Solace:

www.fireisiahthomas.com
Definately too soon for those sites. To go a little off topic, anyone else here post at www.firelayden.com when it was up and running?
New Yorkers claim to be patient enough to rebuild but they're not patient enough to see what Isiah can do with his three first round draft picks and $30 mil in expiring contracts? Talk about a walking contradiction...
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  6:31 PM
Posted by teslawlo:

I'd like to share an excellent post on realgm by vinnievegas69:
-----
Example 1) People have been bitching all year for Isiah to make trades for our future that will help us.

Then they complain that he didn't get high enough picks when he trades for two more 1st round picks with garbage.

Example 2) People have been saying that we should tank the season and try to get as high a pick as possible.

The two picks were acquired in trades that made the team significantly worse, which will equal more losses, which will equal a higher pick, yet people still complain that the trades left us without a starting center or backup PG. I don't WANT a starting center or backup PG on the team, because we won't win games without them.

Example 3) People claim Isiah is great at drafting players, many even using his nickname "The Eye", saying that he even turned pick#43 into Trevor Ariza, a great young player.

Yet people complain that the draft picks he got were too late in the draft... I don't know about you guys, but if he managed to pick up more guys that were on the skill level and maturity of Ariza at 19 years of age, I'd be happy, let alone the possibility, even the likelihood that he'll get better players with higher picks.

Example 4) People want Isiah to let the contracts expire so we can lower our cap number.

Yet, they also complain when he trades them away because they were valuable trade bait for the future.

Here's a news flash: Maurice Taylor's contract expires the same year Houston's does, and while Rose's goes a year longer, we'll already be paying $20 million to Marbury and $8 million to Crawford, plus will have given Ariza a reasonable contract, Sweetney will be getting $3.5 million and there's likely to be other contracted players on the roster who will end up putting us over the cap anyway. So stop complaining about contracts, because until the Marbury contract clears, and we don't actually add any more long term salaries, including what we may have to pay at least one of our draft picks (you'd assume), then being under the cap is not an option.

Example 5) People claim that they want to use the expiring contracts of Nazr, Vin and Moochie along with those of Penny Hardaway and Tim Thomas to trade for ELTON BRAND, which I'm sure the Clippers were bending over for...

And then they have the nerve to accuse Isiah of making bad trades...

In short, all I'm saying is, there are two sides to every coin, and from where I stand, the trades have a considerable upside for us. I'm assuming KT will be moved in the offseason, and that Isiah will look for significant help at center, at which point we should be looking reasonably good.

People just need to stop complaining about every move that is or isn't made. Isiah Thomas is making a young core out of this train wreck. This is the roster he took over with.

About.Com 2003-2004 preview wrote:

Depth Chart
C: Dikembe Mutombo | Michael Doleac | Slavko Vranes
PF: Antonio McDyess | Kurt Thomas | Othella Harrington | Mike Sweetney
SF: Keith Van Horn | Maciej Lampe
SG: Allan Houston | Shandon Anderson
PG: Howard Eisley | Charlie Ward | Frank Williams

Franchise Player: Allan Houston
Breakout: Mmmmmm ... no

Our franchise player was Allan Houston, and a breakout from anyone seemed ludicrous.

Now, our roster only holds over Houston and Thomas, whom Isiah was unable to trade, and Sweetney, who Isiah finally pulled of the IR and got on the court.

Looking back at that roster, there was no one on it as good as marbury for sure, and I'd say that there was no one as good as Crawford on there either, considering Houston's injury had already occurred. Barring Sweetney, none of those young players have the promise of Trevor Ariza, and while Van Horn's numbers were decent, he was never the difference between winning and losing.

There's still work to be done, but adding 3 first round picks to the core of Marbury, Crawford, Ariza, Sweetney cannot be a bad thing.

Remember the one year that Golden State drafted Jason Richardson, Troy Murphy and Gilbert Arenas, and it was starting to look like they'd set themselves up for the future, only to screw it up by not giving Arenas a 3 year deal. It could be like that for us this year; a top 7 pick like Richardson was. A non-lottery teens pick like Murphy was, and a pick in the 30's like Arenas was, with the one difference being that the 30th pick is a 1st rounder now, with all of the benefits of restricted free agency that that provides, rather than facing an Arenas-style situation.

I know this post has been really long, but I really like these moves for our future, and so I wanted to post something stating that, and hey, this is a lot shorter than the pages and pages of bitching in the official thread...
That's a great post. I'm very impressed.
s3231
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2/24/2005  6:35 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Solace:

www.fireisiahthomas.com
Definately too soon for those sites. To go a little off topic, anyone else here post at www.firelayden.com when it was up and running?
New Yorkers claim to be patient enough to rebuild but they're not patient enough to see what Isiah can do with his three first round draft picks and $30 mil in expiring contracts? Talk about a walking contradiction...











As pissed as I am about the Houston trade, I agree with you here. We really need to wait and see what Isiah does before we ask for his head on a platter. I'm as fustrated as anyone else but at the end of all of this we only gave up two scrub bench players and a 2nd round pick which isn't that bad. Lets see what Isiah does before we execute him...
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Solace
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2/24/2005  6:36 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Solace:

www.fireisiahthomas.com
Definately too soon for those sites. To go a little off topic, anyone else here post at www.firelayden.com when it was up and running?
New Yorkers claim to be patient enough to rebuild but they're not patient enough to see what Isiah can do with his three first round draft picks and $30 mil in expiring contracts? Talk about a walking contradiction...

I said the fire isiah thing out of frustration. Don't take that seriously.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  6:41 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by Solace:

www.fireisiahthomas.com
Definately too soon for those sites. To go a little off topic, anyone else here post at www.firelayden.com when it was up and running?
New Yorkers claim to be patient enough to rebuild but they're not patient enough to see what Isiah can do with his three first round draft picks and $30 mil in expiring contracts? Talk about a walking contradiction...

I said the fire isiah thing out of frustration. Don't take that seriously.
Sorry, I wasn't referring to you specifically. I was referring to New Yorkers who started this fire isiah web site. I just clicked the link and I see it's not a real web site. I guess it was a joke that you made up and I was a little slow. Oops!
PhilinLA
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2/24/2005  6:42 PM
I'm having trouble believing we didn't get a pick from Houston. Will we have enough players for tonight's game?
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
VDesai
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2/24/2005  6:45 PM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by VDesai:

Okay..so now we didn't get a first rounder but gave up a 2nd rounder for Mo Freaking Taylor and his awful freaking contract? We just paid top freaking Dollar for Mo Taylor with 5 PF's on the roster.

Vin Baker, Moochie are top dollar?

The fact that we even took this guy back without getting a pick, much less giving up a 2nd rounder, is top dollar. 9 mil a year till 2007.
crzymdups
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2/24/2005  7:21 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by VDesai:

Okay..so now we didn't get a first rounder but gave up a 2nd rounder for Mo Freaking Taylor and his awful freaking contract? We just paid top freaking Dollar for Mo Taylor with 5 PF's on the roster.

Vin Baker, Moochie are top dollar?

The fact that we even took this guy back without getting a pick, much less giving up a 2nd rounder, is top dollar. 9 mil a year till 2007.

I don't think we gave up top dollar to get him, but I do agree that we're paying him top dollar now. This trade absolutely mystifies me. I am at a total loss. It makes no sense.

The only good thing about the trade is that it opened up two roster spots. I think Isiah should sign Jamal Sampson and Eddie Robinson for the rest of the year and take a good long look at each guy.
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Pharzeone
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2/24/2005  8:24 PM
Posted by MX25:

Terrible Deals. Knicks aren't winning for years and they have no cap space coming any time soon. They have 3 Undersized PF's and no centers. Big deal they get the last pick in draft. BIG DEAL!!!!!!! Not worth Rose terrible contract.

Isiah can spin these draft picks all they want but they not top picks.

Isiah is such a fool.

Spurs are laughing right now. That's why Spurs are where they are and reason knicks are stuck in a rut.

This is a silly quote. It lacks pure logic. The Spurs drafted Duncan 1st one year and that's it. Their picks have been late picks, one of picks was an all-star. It shows you don't know what you are talking about. I can name the lottery bust like the ticker on the stock market. Besides a real GM earns his money with late picks, and 2nd rounders. Gilbert Arenas, Micheal Redd, Rashard Lewis were 2nd round picks and 2004 2005 all stars. The draft is a gamble but you like to have more chances than not.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Bonn1997
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2/24/2005  8:26 PM
On NBAtv they said the Knicks got two picks from the SA trade and did not get or give up any picks (1st or 2nd rd) in the Houston trade. We may have kept that 2nd rd pick or they might have just not reported it.
Pharzeone
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2/24/2005  8:48 PM
The Houston deal makes sense, it clears roster space with adding long term contracts. 2007 is not that long, and Taylor would probably be tradeable next year, for another contender. Unless you are big Baker and Moochie fans then I can see how you have a problem with it. If I was a Rockets fan I would be wondering WTF happen, because face it Taylor is better than Baker and Moochie. If the Rockets would have given up a 1st round pick for them, I would have expected Stern to slap Dawson silly. A 1st round pick for Baker and Moochie are you insane.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
gunsnewing
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2/24/2005  9:22 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I dont know what the big fuss is about the knicks having no 5... we're not going anywhere this year anyway so whats it matter. With the acquisition of these 2 first round picks the Knicks should be able to trade up higher into the draft and like someone else said before, we could have 2 picks in the top 10 which is outstanding. I was never a big fan of Mo Taylor, he's got some talent but has never utilized it properly and Malik Rose was a excellent player a few years ago in the Spurs championship run, don't know what happened to him since then but maybe a change of scenery will help him get it back together? I for one am very happy about these deals, the Knicks are finally getting younger.

I second that!I did not expect any first round picks for Nazr. this is awesome! It's not like Rose and taylor's contracts are that long. We're still in great shape for when H20 is off the books! And remember Ariza was the 44th pick!! Its scary to think what Isiah can do with all these 1st round picks!

Remember we have Isiah drafting! You can't just look at losing Nazr for Rose and Taylor...they're not what this trade is about and you can always package them with expiring contracts. You can package KT too

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 02/24/2005 21:49:34]
gunsnewing
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2/24/2005  9:27 PM
oh and it was hilarious hearing Mad Dog talk about the trade. He actually said it was a terrible trade and that Nazr is really going to help San Antonio by blocking shots.

hahaha Nazr blocking shots!! YEAH RIGHT!!!

god those guys are idiots! they can never give Isiah credit!
fishmike
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2/24/2005  9:52 PM
we now have 5 PFs all about 6'8 that are all similar players. What happened to young and athletic? These guys are short and squat with bad contracts. Whats to like?

Yes Bonn... cant wait to see what Isiah does with $30mm in expiring deals. Maybe package them for Jalen Rose?

Lets look at the guys with at least 2 MORE years after this one:
Rose
JYD
KT
Mo Taylor
Houston

That sucks... hey, I had hopes for Layden all the way to the end, but this is his kind of move.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knicks get two FIRST ROUND PICKS!!!! NY/HOU/SA

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