nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:JV is going back to Europe so the reports that we are signing him when he’s cut aren’t true .

Keep an eye on that d3 guy we signed to summer league. As a potential 3rd stringer big.

Now that we have Drummond in the fold, the 3rd guy will be a potential guy.

Drummond is durable so we probably won’t see him sit back to backs the 3rd guy will probably just get garbage minutes.

We'll see. Begley is usually right on the money when he says something as emphatically as he did when he reported the JV rumor yesterday.

Begley said he was coming to the Knicks?

No but he is the source of the rumor that the Knicks will be going after him. Rarely does he say stuff like this about Knicks targets. JV and Leon are also tight.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/2073192755082285233

would love JC back, he really carved himself out a nice part time role and not only accepted it but embraced it. He can score and defend and get into the paint against tough defenses.

I appreciate the pivot Clarkson made mid-season to be a better defender, but the truth is he barely played in the playoffs and he is one of the least difficult players to replace. He's a journeyman now.

Not saying I don't like him, but I don't feel he is at all essential to our future prospects.

Still would vastly prefer McCullar who is a true two-way player who would make our second unit fierce defensively while providing distribution skills Clarkson only rarely shows. Plus, he can score too. Clarkson is not the most efficient player, more of a hot or not kind of scorer.

nycericanguy wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:With Towns emergence into a legit two way force, Mitch’s role became so small. I think double big lineups went out the window a long time ago. Towns’ backup is a small role going forward just like it was in the playoffs. Two vet mins like Drummond and JV gives us depth and insurance and two guys more than capable of playing the 13-15mpg role at a high level.

good point, I mean Mitch played just 13.9mpg in the playoffs and 13.4 in the finals, but truth be told it would have been even less if KAT wasn't being called for some nonsense fouls against Wemby.

But aren’t we better off managing KAT’s minutes in the regular season? Drummond and JV gives us 2 guys that don’t play defense, are slow and don’t offer rim protection. I think we’re downplaying how that will impact us. A guy like Moussa Cisse, if we can get him, would pair much better with Drummond. He could easily pop and become an important player

KAT has never played huge minutes, 31 last year. He can play around 32-33 without issue. Leaves Dre around 15mpg but I don't think we're done at the C spot.

And I do think we'll see stretches of MO at smallball 5 and maybe even Sochan if we bring him back

My other worry with this abyss at C after KAT is the coaching staff runs KAT into the ground with too many minutes in the regular season. It’s really looking we are going small ball next season with OG and Mo getting serious minutes at C. OG might even start games at C.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm a little surprised Leon went with the worst defensive Center available to replace Mitch but I'll give him the benefit of doubt. Drummond can rebound and isn't a zero on offense like Mitch but he's a bandaid and I bet Leon is still working the phones and likely will sign another Center for the minimum. We will also see more of small ball with OG playing back up Center with some bench players.

With 2 minimum spots left, I'd love to bring back Clarkson and sign another Center and I wouldn't be against Jemison if Looney turns us down.

Drummond was available dirt cheap because he can’t guard a stop sign. Maybe they can trade Deuce for a Center next February

Hold on. I’m not gonna act like the guy is 24, but he has been aging his game to do what he does best - rebound. He could stand to lose some weight and work on his conditioning, but he is still perhaps the best rebounder in the game. He’s hampered by injuries that come with age, but with a lower weight and better conditioning he could be a real productive backup. He’s not a 4 year solution at C. I kind of wish we held onto our draft picks. Cam Carr wouldn’t have solved our C problems but between those picks we could have had the next in line.

That said, I’m still riding that Championship high. Smoke em if you got em.

Yeah, see what our staff can do with him. Maybe Philly sucks and their trainers are garbage and Nick Nurse was a waste of space. Put Drummond in touch with our slimfast crew and insert Coach Brown's chip into his noggin and see what happens before deciding he's as useless as some here think he is. Now Yabusele was useless as a Knick. Drummond is not that level of bad

nycericanguy wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm a little surprised Leon went with the worst defensive Center available to replace Mitch but I'll give him the benefit of doubt. Drummond can rebound and isn't a zero on offense like Mitch but he's a bandaid and I bet Leon is still working the phones and likely will sign another Center for the minimum. We will also see more of small ball with OG playing back up Center with some bench players.

With 2 minimum spots left, I'd love to bring back Clarkson and sign another Center and I wouldn't be against Jemison if Looney turns us down.

Drummond was available dirt cheap because he can’t guard a stop sign. Maybe they can trade Deuce for a Center next February

Hold on. I’m not gonna act like the guy is 24, but he has been aging his game to do what he does best - rebound. He could stand to lose some weight and work on his conditioning, but he is still perhaps the best rebounder in the game. He’s hampered by injuries that come with age, but with a lower weight and better conditioning he could be a real productive backup. He’s not a 4 year solution at C. I kind of wish we held onto our draft picks. Cam Carr wouldn’t have solved our C problems but between those picks we could have had the next in line.

That said, I’m still riding that Championship high. Smoke em if you got em.

Yeah, see what our staff can do with him. Maybe Philly sucks and their trainers are garbage and Nick Nurse was a waste of space. Put Drummond in touch with our slimfast crew and insert Coach Brown's chip into his noggin and see what happens before deciding he's as useless as some here think he is. Now Yabusele was useless as a Knick. Drummond is not that level of bad

I mean DRE did play some significant minutes for them, started 25 games and played 26 minutes in a G2 win against BOS in playoffs.

The guy will be in the rotation unless they land another center who is higher on the depth chart

But he will play and he will have his good moments that lead to victory.

PatCummings wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm a little surprised Leon went with the worst defensive Center available to replace Mitch but I'll give him the benefit of doubt. Drummond can rebound and isn't a zero on offense like Mitch but he's a bandaid and I bet Leon is still working the phones and likely will sign another Center for the minimum. We will also see more of small ball with OG playing back up Center with some bench players.

With 2 minimum spots left, I'd love to bring back Clarkson and sign another Center and I wouldn't be against Jemison if Looney turns us down.

Drummond was available dirt cheap because he can’t guard a stop sign. Maybe they can trade Deuce for a Center next February

Hold on. I’m not gonna act like the guy is 24, but he has been aging his game to do what he does best - rebound. He could stand to lose some weight and work on his conditioning, but he is still perhaps the best rebounder in the game. He’s hampered by injuries that come with age, but with a lower weight and better conditioning he could be a real productive backup. He’s not a 4 year solution at C. I kind of wish we held onto our draft picks. Cam Carr wouldn’t have solved our C problems but between those picks we could have had the next in line.

That said, I’m still riding that Championship high. Smoke em if you got em.

Adding Carr to this team would’ve been unfair to the rest of the league. Still bummed about that…

Moving on, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Knicks make a trade and revamp the roster a bit. There’s a really good chance we can’t afford to keep Deuce and Dadiet next year. Moving them both for a strong defensive center could also free up a roster spot for a 15th player. So we could bring in a center and then sign 4 vet min FAs and / or young guys. Maybe a PF to add some size. Maybe a guy like McCullar or Dillon Jones, probably Clarkson, maybe a summer league star?

You're probably right. They're not done and I doubt everyone under contract is staying.

My ideal scenario is using Deuce and Dadiet's contracts to land an athletic young defensive center to develop and resigning McCullar. That would cap off a good overall roster alignment. There might even be something left over for Clarkson, though he is not a priority for me.

I know they may be interested in Val, but I'd prefer they try to pry loose a talented young big with big defensive upside instead.

Lots of clubs are taking big swings this off-season with all kinds of cap space factors of their own and I'm betting somebody is going to have to make a deal we can capitalize on.

PatCummings wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm a little surprised Leon went with the worst defensive Center available to replace Mitch but I'll give him the benefit of doubt. Drummond can rebound and isn't a zero on offense like Mitch but he's a bandaid and I bet Leon is still working the phones and likely will sign another Center for the minimum. We will also see more of small ball with OG playing back up Center with some bench players.

With 2 minimum spots left, I'd love to bring back Clarkson and sign another Center and I wouldn't be against Jemison if Looney turns us down.

Drummond was available dirt cheap because he can’t guard a stop sign. Maybe they can trade Deuce for a Center next February

Hold on. I’m not gonna act like the guy is 24, but he has been aging his game to do what he does best - rebound. He could stand to lose some weight and work on his conditioning, but he is still perhaps the best rebounder in the game. He’s hampered by injuries that come with age, but with a lower weight and better conditioning he could be a real productive backup. He’s not a 4 year solution at C. I kind of wish we held onto our draft picks. Cam Carr wouldn’t have solved our C problems but between those picks we could have had the next in line.

That said, I’m still riding that Championship high. Smoke em if you got em.

Adding Carr to this team would’ve been unfair to the rest of the league. Still bummed about that…

Moving on, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Knicks make a trade and revamp the roster a bit. There’s a really good chance we can’t afford to keep Deuce and Dadiet next year. Moving them both for a strong defensive center could also free up a roster spot for a 15th player. So we could bring in a center and then sign 4 vet min FAs and / or young guys. Maybe a PF to add some size. Maybe a guy like McCullar or Dillon Jones, probably Clarkson, maybe a summer league star?

You're probably right. They're not done and I doubt everyone under contract is staying.

My ideal scenario is using Deuce and Dadiet's contracts to land an athletic young defensive center to develop and resigning McCullar. That would cap off a good overall roster alignment. There might even be something left over for Clarkson, though he is not a priority for me.

I know they may be interested in Val, but I'd prefer they try to pry loose a talented young big with big defensive upside instead.

Lots of clubs are taking big swings this off-season with all kinds of cap space factors of their own and I'm betting somebody is going to have to make a deal we can capitalize on.

100%. In that scenario, there’s room for Clarkson and McCullar

I’m with you on a young, talented big man instead of Val. In the not too distant future, Trevon Brazile is going to be one of those guys we talk about trading for. He’s 6’10”, crazy athletic and has a 3 pt shot. Nuggets drafted him at 35. He was there for us at 31 along with Carr at 24

It is also possible any such trade is made by the mid-season trade deadline, because that type of player could shake loose by then as teams determine their depth charts. Therefore, we may see Deuce in the lineup for the first few months if they don't make a trade now.

That may make some sense from the Knicks perspective as they see how well Drummond adapts in case he exceeds his reputation on defense.

Plus, the Mo experiment will begin in earnest. If he blossoms on defense, that will give us some more frontline length to play with.

Adding another center is not urgent yet, but becomes more important for the playoffs. IOW, this could take a minute.

martin wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm a little surprised Leon went with the worst defensive Center available to replace Mitch but I'll give him the benefit of doubt. Drummond can rebound and isn't a zero on offense like Mitch but he's a bandaid and I bet Leon is still working the phones and likely will sign another Center for the minimum. We will also see more of small ball with OG playing back up Center with some bench players.

With 2 minimum spots left, I'd love to bring back Clarkson and sign another Center and I wouldn't be against Jemison if Looney turns us down.

Drummond was available dirt cheap because he can’t guard a stop sign. Maybe they can trade Deuce for a Center next February

Hold on. I’m not gonna act like the guy is 24, but he has been aging his game to do what he does best - rebound. He could stand to lose some weight and work on his conditioning, but he is still perhaps the best rebounder in the game. He’s hampered by injuries that come with age, but with a lower weight and better conditioning he could be a real productive backup. He’s not a 4 year solution at C. I kind of wish we held onto our draft picks. Cam Carr wouldn’t have solved our C problems but between those picks we could have had the next in line.

That said, I’m still riding that Championship high. Smoke em if you got em.

Adding Carr to this team would’ve been unfair to the rest of the league. Still bummed about that…

Moving on, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Knicks make a trade and revamp the roster a bit. There’s a really good chance we can’t afford to keep Deuce and Dadiet next year. Moving them both for a strong defensive center could also free up a roster spot for a 15th player. So we could bring in a center and then sign 4 vet min FAs and / or young guys. Maybe a PF to add some size. Maybe a guy like McCullar or Dillon Jones, probably Clarkson, maybe a summer league star?

You're probably right. They're not done and I doubt everyone under contract is staying.

My ideal scenario is using Deuce and Dadiet's contracts to land an athletic young defensive center to develop and resigning McCullar. That would cap off a good overall roster alignment. There might even be something left over for Clarkson, though he is not a priority for me.

I know they may be interested in Val, but I'd prefer they try to pry loose a talented young big with big defensive upside instead.

Lots of clubs are taking big swings this off-season with all kinds of cap space factors of their own and I'm betting somebody is going to have to make a deal we can capitalize on.

100%. In that scenario, there’s room for Clarkson and McCullar

I’m with you on a young, talented big man instead of Val. In the not too distant future, Trevon Brazile is going to be one of those guys we talk about trading for. He’s 6’10”, crazy athletic and has a 3 pt shot. Nuggets drafted him at 35. He was there for us at 31 along with Carr at 24

How about this take:

I loved Carr too and thought he would have been an ideal, long term fit for team given his potential and make up. I didn't quite realize this but first round picks count 120% against the cap IMMEDIATELY for a team on draft night, second round picks do not (I think). A small guess: Knicks couldn't dare hope to have fit backup C #1 & #2, Clarkson, Shamet, GTA, Mo and/or Mitch with a first round pick on their cap if they drafted in the first round with the second apron limit, feels like that was the real reason for dropping Carr. Carr salary would take up to ~1.5 roster spots of vet min players (give or take) and you need to hit that 14 count; that would have been a logistical nightmare on top of the regular nightmare of keeping their guys.

Knicks have taken a long term ramp up path with all of their youngsters. Knicks expect those players to take at least 2-3 years before they'll be ready to be in the main rotation, if they make it that far. They need a big man and know it and dont think the expectation of a second round pick to be that guy, especially with an immediate need at big man rotation. Lots of guys draft in late first and second shouldn't be counted on to even make the league, roster or rotation in their first couple of years and have been treated that way by the Knicks cause they are already top heavy with players. If they pop quick like Mo, that's great (and lucky) but not expected.

Knicks probably know they will make a trade for backup C or trickle along with backups who can hit the ground running and build offense/defense from that point.

The 24 pick has a cap number around $3.4M. It’s definitely more than a vet min but it’s a very manageable number if you love the prospect. Maybe the Knicks aren’t high on Carr. There was no report of them working him out prior to the draft. That’s likely bc he wasn’t expected to be available at 24. Historically, the Knicks don’t draft guys they haven’t worked out unless they’re foreign or injured. So maybe the Knicks didn’t do enough homework on him to feel comfortable drafting him?

I hear you re Brazile at 31. A championship team can’t pencil in a guy like that to be in the rotation, same with Carr at 24. We’d have to have enough room on the roster to let them develop. It would mean moving a guy like Dadiet, etc…

I just have a feeling Brazile will be the type of backup center that we all want

martin wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm a little surprised Leon went with the worst defensive Center available to replace Mitch but I'll give him the benefit of doubt. Drummond can rebound and isn't a zero on offense like Mitch but he's a bandaid and I bet Leon is still working the phones and likely will sign another Center for the minimum. We will also see more of small ball with OG playing back up Center with some bench players.

With 2 minimum spots left, I'd love to bring back Clarkson and sign another Center and I wouldn't be against Jemison if Looney turns us down.

Drummond was available dirt cheap because he can’t guard a stop sign. Maybe they can trade Deuce for a Center next February

Hold on. I’m not gonna act like the guy is 24, but he has been aging his game to do what he does best - rebound. He could stand to lose some weight and work on his conditioning, but he is still perhaps the best rebounder in the game. He’s hampered by injuries that come with age, but with a lower weight and better conditioning he could be a real productive backup. He’s not a 4 year solution at C. I kind of wish we held onto our draft picks. Cam Carr wouldn’t have solved our C problems but between those picks we could have had the next in line.

That said, I’m still riding that Championship high. Smoke em if you got em.

Adding Carr to this team would’ve been unfair to the rest of the league. Still bummed about that…

Moving on, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Knicks make a trade and revamp the roster a bit. There’s a really good chance we can’t afford to keep Deuce and Dadiet next year. Moving them both for a strong defensive center could also free up a roster spot for a 15th player. So we could bring in a center and then sign 4 vet min FAs and / or young guys. Maybe a PF to add some size. Maybe a guy like McCullar or Dillon Jones, probably Clarkson, maybe a summer league star?

You're probably right. They're not done and I doubt everyone under contract is staying.

My ideal scenario is using Deuce and Dadiet's contracts to land an athletic young defensive center to develop and resigning McCullar. That would cap off a good overall roster alignment. There might even be something left over for Clarkson, though he is not a priority for me.

I know they may be interested in Val, but I'd prefer they try to pry loose a talented young big with big defensive upside instead.

Lots of clubs are taking big swings this off-season with all kinds of cap space factors of their own and I'm betting somebody is going to have to make a deal we can capitalize on.

100%. In that scenario, there’s room for Clarkson and McCullar

I’m with you on a young, talented big man instead of Val. In the not too distant future, Trevon Brazile is going to be one of those guys we talk about trading for. He’s 6’10”, crazy athletic and has a 3 pt shot. Nuggets drafted him at 35. He was there for us at 31 along with Carr at 24

How about this take:

I loved Carr too and thought he would have been an ideal, long term fit for team given his potential and make up. I didn't quite realize this but first round picks count 120% against the cap IMMEDIATELY for a team on draft night, second round picks do not (I think). A small guess: Knicks couldn't dare hope to have fit backup C #1 & #2, Clarkson, Shamet, GTA, Mo and/or Mitch with a first round pick on their cap if they drafted in the first round with the second apron limit, feels like that was the real reason for dropping Carr. Carr salary would take up to ~1.5 roster spots of vet min players (give or take) and you need to hit that 14 count; that would have been a logistical nightmare on top of the regular nightmare of keeping their guys.

Knicks have taken a long term ramp up path with all of their youngsters. Knicks expect those players to take at least 2-3 years before they'll be ready to be in the main rotation, if they make it that far. They need a big man and know it and dont think the expectation of a second round pick to be that guy, especially with an immediate need at big man rotation. Lots of guys draft in late first and second shouldn't be counted on to even make the league, roster or rotation in their first couple of years and have been treated that way by the Knicks cause they are already top heavy with players. If they pop quick like Mo, that's great (and lucky) but not expected.

Knicks probably know they will make a trade for backup C or trickle along with backups who can hit the ground running and build offense/defense from that point.

Good analysis

When you're the defending champs and dealing with 2nd apron issues, the imperative is who is on deck this year and MAYBE the next season, but the longest term development projects at this point are already maturing. Like you're saying, if someone picked in the 2nd round or a rando FA pickup on a budget deal unexpectedly pops like Mo then that's gravy.

But otherwise, this is not the year they are onboarding players they expect to follow the three year development pipeline. The only one who may fit that profile is Jack Kayil, but until hearing otherwise he's a draft and stash asset only. Tyler Nickel is a fourth year college player and the best shooter in the draft. He was not drafted to be developed. Either he sinks or he swims, but if he can't hack it he won't be here 2-3 years from now.

Repeating is the mandate now.

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'm a little surprised Leon went with the worst defensive Center available to replace Mitch but I'll give him the benefit of doubt. Drummond can rebound and isn't a zero on offense like Mitch but he's a bandaid and I bet Leon is still working the phones and likely will sign another Center for the minimum. We will also see more of small ball with OG playing back up Center with some bench players.

With 2 minimum spots left, I'd love to bring back Clarkson and sign another Center and I wouldn't be against Jemison if Looney turns us down.

Drummond was available dirt cheap because he can’t guard a stop sign. Maybe they can trade Deuce for a Center next February

Hold on. I’m not gonna act like the guy is 24, but he has been aging his game to do what he does best - rebound. He could stand to lose some weight and work on his conditioning, but he is still perhaps the best rebounder in the game. He’s hampered by injuries that come with age, but with a lower weight and better conditioning he could be a real productive backup. He’s not a 4 year solution at C. I kind of wish we held onto our draft picks. Cam Carr wouldn’t have solved our C problems but between those picks we could have had the next in line.

That said, I’m still riding that Championship high. Smoke em if you got em.

Adding Carr to this team would’ve been unfair to the rest of the league. Still bummed about that…

Moving on, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Knicks make a trade and revamp the roster a bit. There’s a really good chance we can’t afford to keep Deuce and Dadiet next year. Moving them both for a strong defensive center could also free up a roster spot for a 15th player. So we could bring in a center and then sign 4 vet min FAs and / or young guys. Maybe a PF to add some size. Maybe a guy like McCullar or Dillon Jones, probably Clarkson, maybe a summer league star?

You're probably right. They're not done and I doubt everyone under contract is staying.

My ideal scenario is using Deuce and Dadiet's contracts to land an athletic young defensive center to develop and resigning McCullar. That would cap off a good overall roster alignment. There might even be something left over for Clarkson, though he is not a priority for me.

I know they may be interested in Val, but I'd prefer they try to pry loose a talented young big with big defensive upside instead.

Lots of clubs are taking big swings this off-season with all kinds of cap space factors of their own and I'm betting somebody is going to have to make a deal we can capitalize on.

100%. In that scenario, there’s room for Clarkson and McCullar

I’m with you on a young, talented big man instead of Val. In the not too distant future, Trevon Brazile is going to be one of those guys we talk about trading for. He’s 6’10”, crazy athletic and has a 3 pt shot. Nuggets drafted him at 35. He was there for us at 31 along with Carr at 24

How about this take:

I loved Carr too and thought he would have been an ideal, long term fit for team given his potential and make up. I didn't quite realize this but first round picks count 120% against the cap IMMEDIATELY for a team on draft night, second round picks do not (I think). A small guess: Knicks couldn't dare hope to have fit backup C #1 & #2, Clarkson, Shamet, GTA, Mo and/or Mitch with a first round pick on their cap if they drafted in the first round with the second apron limit, feels like that was the real reason for dropping Carr. Carr salary would take up to ~1.5 roster spots of vet min players (give or take) and you need to hit that 14 count; that would have been a logistical nightmare on top of the regular nightmare of keeping their guys.

Knicks have taken a long term ramp up path with all of their youngsters. Knicks expect those players to take at least 2-3 years before they'll be ready to be in the main rotation, if they make it that far. They need a big man and know it and dont think the expectation of a second round pick to be that guy, especially with an immediate need at big man rotation. Lots of guys draft in late first and second shouldn't be counted on to even make the league, roster or rotation in their first couple of years and have been treated that way by the Knicks cause they are already top heavy with players. If they pop quick like Mo, that's great (and lucky) but not expected.

Knicks probably know they will make a trade for backup C or trickle along with backups who can hit the ground running and build offense/defense from that point.

Reasonable take but I think you need to add one more piece to the that puzzle. You have to assume that some combination of Deuce/Shamet will be better for the team over the next 4 years - considering both present skill level and expected salary. I saw him as a plug and play replacement for one of Deuce / Shamet with higher upside and lower cost - but rookie growing pains.

I do expect Carr to get a max extension when eligible. He checks all the boxes.

Happy to wait and see what the FO does with this team. Carr just seemed like a no-brainer even at the rookie scale.

I suppose any franchise can have a perpetual pipeline, but it looks like the Knicks see this now post chip as either you're moving into the rotation soon or you're not in their plans.

They are all-in on repeating so I expect this off-season and next off-season to be very similar unless there is something wrong with one of our core players in the next two seasons.

TBH, I think their expectations or hopes for Mo made it easier to take this approach which includes staying under the 2nd apron so they can work out the extensions for the starters.

Mo is the one player outside the starting unit with star potential. He's the wild card that could impact roster construction over the next 1-2 years.