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LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Gut shot

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Ouch.

If you think about just pure/basic talent —- there are probably 10-15 guys with Randle’s overall combo of physical/skill talent and with RJ there are probably +200.

If you throw in court awareness, that number might is +20 for Randle. I don't want to even do an estimate for RJ after the Bucks game.

Nalod wrote:Nalod not as clairvoyant as some of you, but RJ carried us the first quarter with 18 and set the tone for the game.
A game we won.
He carried until the others got going early.

Needs to do on a more consistent basis. Doesn't take Nostradamus or other clairvoyant to figure that out.

Swishfm3 wrote:

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:Nalod not as clairvoyant as some of you, but RJ carried us the first quarter with 18 and set the tone for the game.
A game we won.
He carried until the others got going early.

Needs to do on a more consistent basis. Doesn't take Nostradamus or other clairvoyant to figure that out.

This has been RJ since his Rookie season and the majority fall for it EVERY TIME. One hot month followed by two months of mediocrity.

He will have another few weeks of near All Star level play around Feb, and we will fall in love again and call him anoint him a franchise cornerstone

I will go one step further: As much as RJ played very well in the first quarter "carrying" the Knicks, he also makes the most boneheaded plays during that same time period. And also almost cost the Knicks the game at the end.

5th year player who has had a lot of ball-in-hands reps and still has blinders on a lot of times. He will make the right pass occasionally but he also like to challenge blockers like Lopez for zero reason when there is a guy in the same eye-sight vicinity who has an easier shot with an all-defensive player in his grill.

IMO that's what is separating RJ right now.

franco12 wrote:RJ has made 1 or 0 3pt shots in 13 games he has played out of 25.

I think he should be traded. There is no excuse for the bad shooting from deep. He is getting paid $150M and he should have done nothing over the summer except shoot threes.

He came out red hot and the migraines seemed to put him back into "Same old RJ".
While he has been here now in his 5th season and paid well its about what he is to become, not what he has been or is at the moment.

For fans, its an emotional swing. Win, its all good. Not, find blame. Since Jules has shown much since he has been here he gets a bit of pass because he has demonstrated the high ceiling of play that his potential called for.

HE was 25 when he first came here. In NOLA he was inconsistent but showed a lot.
Now we have hindsight were we first had hope.

RJ has shown bits and pieces and since he has yet to put a long stretch together (Despite not so bad over all stats" we are hyper critical of him and his potential. Calls for a trade or banishment without understanding what comes back in return is more fans exhibiting frustration. Its valid. But the results? He is 23.

What is missing? If any of us knew besides guessing we'd be employed by an NBA club.
We lost. He had ANOTHER bad game. Thibs puts him in and he made a pass that got stolen. Not a good look. Thibs thought he needed size. Sometimes you win and sometimes you don't.

My take is Thibs understands IQ might be traded and this team might be better served if he is not finishing. Just a stab guess of understanding.
Jules was an enigma. Now not so. Brunson was a well decorated proven college player who did not get to this level until year 4 at age 26. Excuses? Not really. Just reasoning. Will I be right? I don't know.
Other teams "NEVER" have this issues?
Sucked Jalen Williams lit us up.

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:RJ has made 1 or 0 3pt shots in 13 games he has played out of 25.

I think he should be traded. There is no excuse for the bad shooting from deep. He is getting paid $150M and he should have done nothing over the summer except shoot threes.

He came out red hot and the migraines seemed to put him back into "Same old RJ".
While he has been here now in his 5th season and paid well its about what he is to become, not what he has been or is at the moment.

For fans, its an emotional swing. Win, its all good. Not, find blame. Since Jules has shown much since he has been here he gets a bit of pass because he has demonstrated the high ceiling of play that his potential called for.

HE was 25 when he first came here. In NOLA he was inconsistent but showed a lot.
Now we have hindsight were we first had hope.

RJ has shown bits and pieces and since he has yet to put a long stretch together (Despite not so bad over all stats" we are hyper critical of him and his potential. Calls for a trade or banishment without understanding what comes back in return is more fans exhibiting frustration. Its valid. But the results? He is 23.

What is missing? If any of us knew besides guessing we'd be employed by an NBA club.
We lost. He had ANOTHER bad game. Thibs puts him in and he made a pass that got stolen. Not a good look. Thibs thought he needed size. Sometimes you win and sometimes you don't.

My take is Thibs understands IQ might be traded and this team might be better served if he is not finishing. Just a stab guess of understanding.
Jules was an enigma. Now not so. Brunson was a well decorated proven college player who did not get to this level until year 4 at age 26. Excuses? Not really. Just reasoning. Will I be right? I don't know.
Other teams "NEVER" have this issues?
Sucked Jalen Williams lit us up.

I think I disagree. Jalen, Randle, all showed out early and developed each year. RJ has been basically a marginally inefficient, high usage, poor shooting, sometimes willing defender and able to exploit bully ball inside since he got into the league.

He’s been available and hasn’t waved a gun around on IG live. That is his chief advantage over the two guys picked ahead of him.

Looking at his per 100, he is giving up more that he gets.

Trade him.

LivingLegend wrote:Not jumping on this RJ is great now bandwagon --- just yet.

I love the results but really don't see much if any change to the game --- he's making shots.

We've seen him go thru big swings before --- even season to season but again I don't see him moving quicker, faster on either end of the court - he's just scoring efficiently (which is great).

Hope he keeps it up - he mostly plays smart and is showing decent effort defensively - he is easy to root for -- hope this is all legit and is repeatable for next 8-10 years.

Slow down. First he needs to be respectable for the next 8-10 weeks.

Nalod wrote:

blkexec wrote:We are built around two inefficient and redundant players in RJ and Jules.
Both can carry a team but they also share the same weaknesses.

The difference is RJ is a different player when Jules is out. RJ is a different player when he’s the focal point. He’s not good when he’s the 3rd or 4th option which is the case today.

But I never liked this union. Both rarely have impact games together. Trade one and the other will shine. Then eventually go back to his inefficient play.

But to Randles credit, hes playing more bully ball this season and u can see his impact has been better. Less 3s more bullying. RJ is similar but less talented than Randle.

RJ is that little boy with all the hopes and dreams to make it. Probably has the most nba and professional support since birth between his Godfather Steve Nash and his dad. His foundation is solid and he’s very mature for a young guy. But you can tell he trained to be the man and never worked on how to be a roll player. Which means doing the little things to impact the game besides scoring.

Your in his head?
I do think he has issue with Jules and being able to coexist.
Other things besides scoring? that is a broad label.
The main thing here is him fitting in with Brunson perhaps as well.
For reasons I don't all agree with, but perhaps to the point he might not be a good fit.
But who would be then? OG is a good defender but has other issues and wants to be paid.
Easy to say "Spot up shooter". OK. Who is that? Bojan is 35. Might be a short term fix. Very short.

My criticism of RJ is - why can't he hit open 3s? And why is his 3pt shooting percentage so poor still?

I would trade RJ today for DeMar DeRozan, try to get a draft pick or other young player back- and he would be a 1 year rental. He would be the move I would make to try to improve this groups chances in the playoffs. I resign IQ and try to use whatever cap room left in the off season.

I would also explore the best package I could get from Toronto for RJ, my thinking is no other franchise would have the potential to exploit his Canadian roots as much as the Raptors could. I would love to get either Siakam or Anunoby.

Again, thinking one of those players helps this group get as far as possible in the playoffs.

I don't think I am wrong for believing we may be getting the best production from Jalen and Julius when we look back at their careers. This is the year to try to go all in. Not unless the plan is to add someone far better than those two in the future, either through FA or the draft.

I like RJ as a person, but just from a production standpoint, fit stand point- we need more size. We could probably replace his offensive production through the new addition and better utilization of others like IQ, Donte, Hart, etc.

Nalod wrote:Hoping RJ can get back to that early breakout at age 23 and 5th season like Coby White has.
While the Migraine has been an even that has divided his season, one has to wonder if the slow start by Randle and his return to form puts RJ in a lessor position to succeed and gain that rhythm he might need. If so, Thibs has to continue to find a way to make work or FO has to consider the ceiling of this team with those two as is.

What do you mean if? It's been 5 years already. How much film you need to change that "if" to an "is".

What we are seeing are 2 flaws.
1. Roster Makeup
2. Thibs Structured Rotation

We have 3 players that impact the game with their offense. If they don't have it on offense, their impact drops. But their offense is more consistent than RJ, so we ignore their individual flaws. In a different offensive culture and a different roster, RJ can excel. Just like Philly had to build around AI, you have to build around RJ. RJ is not wired to be a roll player. Either he's going to lead the first unit or second unit as the first or second option. He's not built to be 3rd option, when there's 2 volume shooters in front of him.

The FO needs to step up and make a trade. Unfortunely, trading RJ now is a bad idea. For some reason, fans want to trade a player when his value is down, but keep him when his value is high.

In the short term, Thibs needs to do something, thats why he gets the big bucks. Call up Steve Nash, hire his dad, move him to the bench, hire a whisperer, something!

As long as JB and Randle are on this team, RJ will continue this roller coaster. He's "Canadian Mamba" since he was a kid, so he's going to shoot, even when he's off.

I would love for RJ and Randle to both have solid efficient games together. But Randle's body languange whenever RJ has the ball is deflating. I feel for RJ because he's just watcing JB and Randle go 1 on 1, so he's waiting his turn. As soon as he gets the ball, Randle is there with his hands open saying pass the ball. RJ needs rthym and he's not getting that playing with JB and Randle. I was hoping Grimes would be the 3rd wheel, since he's a low volume shooter and solid defender.

I believe RJ is a future NBA Star, just not in a knick uniform.