martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Cam is the same player he was in college. Very inconsistent. Difference is he was athletically superior than most in Div. 1 NCAA ball. Might say the same for RJ also but he does that at a high level. Cam has yet to string a season together.
Its why RJ has the big bag and Cam none.
If we signed Obi it prevents future opportunties in the future.

For me, I’d go a little further in their differences.

RJ is very good at being a professional. He has put the work in on his body. He puts in the work to add to his game. His attitude is that he wants to succeed and is willing to do anything to do so. He is obviously a very good teammate. All of those things matter.

Cam is probably more talented in just raw ability but seems to lack the know how and work ethic to fulfill what he has been given. Those things matter.

One has $100M guaranteed coming to him, the other does not.

agreed,

the difference between guys like CAM and RJ comes down to attitude and professionalism. Heck even a guy like Wood who is on his 9th team in 9 years, has all the talent in the world. But guys like Wood and CAM think they are already "him" and don't need to put the work in or think they are too good to play a role or go all out defensively.

and IQ plays a role as well, I don't think CAM knows how to play basketball at a high level, he's just an athlete. Unfortunately I think that applies to Obi as well, he just doesn't have a great feel for the game.

nycericanguy wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:Cam is the same player he was in college. Very inconsistent. Difference is he was athletically superior than most in Div. 1 NCAA ball. Might say the same for RJ also but he does that at a high level. Cam has yet to string a season together.
Its why RJ has the big bag and Cam none.
If we signed Obi it prevents future opportunties in the future.

For me, I’d go a little further in their differences.

RJ is very good at being a professional. He has put the work in on his body. He puts in the work to add to his game. His attitude is that he wants to succeed and is willing to do anything to do so. He is obviously a very good teammate. All of those things matter.

Cam is probably more talented in just raw ability but seems to lack the know how and work ethic to fulfill what he has been given. Those things matter.

One has $100M guaranteed coming to him, the other does not.

agreed,

the difference between guys like CAM and RJ comes down to attitude and professionalism. Heck even a guy like Wood who is on his 9th team in 9 years, has all the talent in the world. But guys like Wood and CAM think they are already "him" and don't need to put the work in or think they are too good to play a role or go all out defensively.

and IQ plays a role as well, I don't think CAM knows how to play basketball at a high level, he's just an athlete. Unfortunately I think that applies to Obi as well, he just doesn't have a great feel for the game.

I think the difference is Cam can’t dribble the ball in the half court without taking a bad shot or turning the ball over. I have no idea how hard he works. It definitely seems that he see himself as a guy that should get the ball have the opportunity to create with it in the half court. Statistically he’s been terrible his whole career when trying to do those things. As for Obi he gets lost on D. I think it’s fair to attribute that to “feel”. He’s also a lighting fast decision maker on O. he’s high feel on one end and low on the other.

Nalod wrote:We really think we know how Cam “Feels”?
None of us know him, or know anyone in his circle?
I agree and see how RJ works on his game. Cam might also, but he has not elevated his game to this level. RJ has. He has shown to be inconsistent in his long range shooting.
I don’t doubt Obi and Cam, and lets throw Frank in here too, these guys did not cut it. Why? PErsonality? Arrogance? Who knows, we don’t, but NOT ALL GUYS MAKE IT! There is a thin line between those that do and those that don’t.

Feel, as in, his feel or understanding or bbalIQ for the game. Not how his emotional state is cause his panties are too bunched up.

Nalod wrote:

martin wrote:

Nalod wrote:We really think we know how Cam “Feels”?
None of us know him, or know anyone in his circle?
I agree and see how RJ works on his game. Cam might also, but he has not elevated his game to this level. RJ has. He has shown to be inconsistent in his long range shooting.
I don’t doubt Obi and Cam, and lets throw Frank in here too, these guys did not cut it. Why? PErsonality? Arrogance? Who knows, we don’t, but NOT ALL GUYS MAKE IT! There is a thin line between those that do and those that don’t.

Feel, as in, his feel or understanding or bbalIQ for the game. Not how his emotional state is cause his panties are too bunched up.

OK, Its formulaic to call out Cam and wussify him to make us all feel better. There are lots of reasons players don’t elevate to fulfill a draft position.

We only know he wanted out of ATL so he can get an opportunity. Maybe Thibs was not the best coach for him, and with a lot of wings in Portland he also needed out. He’ll get a chance in Laker land and in one game he looks like ****.
If he is an arrogant entitled prick and thats what is keeping him from being more of a player then perhaps Darvin Ham and Lebron can team him the humility to submit who he is, and he either mans up or plays abroad.

He has had opportunities, That I don’t deny. Im just not ready to label him as if I know him.

To make us feel better? I don’t understand what type of projection that is.

I’m just trying to make my best judgement as to why he has not succeeded and lay out those details to inform. There is definitely a level of obvious and overt guessing going on cause we are not in the proverbial room.

I don’t write those things to make myself feel better. Is that what you do or think I or others are trying to do in these Cam takes?

Cause that’s exactly how I am reading the way you are framing my response.

FrenchKnicks wrote:Wasn’t Roby supposed to become the backup PF ?
His release makes Toppin’s trade even worse.

I think he was given an opportunity and we don't know the deal.
Is a trade pending? Seems like they cleared roster spots.
Did RObey not impress enough in practice? IS Simms destined to have the role? Thibs has said he likes Ihart and him together.
Does RJ slide over and play some with the second unit?
Thibs has precedence with some lineups last year with these guys.

KnickDanger wrote:Thibs says it’s more about practice. Seems end of the bench guys need to be absolutely “Thibs guys.” That they are spreading the gospel in the way they practice. Also assuming the unguaranteed 2 million of Roby’s contract was seen as more useful elsewhere. I was hoping for him but can’t get too worked up over it.

Just means there's nothing holding Jacob and Nathan back. Always liked Nathan Knight over Roby anyway. Jacob Toppin is more athletic than Roby and bigger than Martin. Plus Jacob is more likely to continue our tradition of Slam Dunk kings.

GustavBahler wrote:Watched the highlights of Obi in preseason. You can tell they've already embraced him, and will be looking to get him going this season.

3 basket hanging dunks and a three. His offensive game has really evolved.

ToddTT wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Watched the highlights of Obi in preseason. You can tell they've already embraced him, and will be looking to get him going this season.

3 basket hanging dunks and a three. His offensive game has really evolved.

His offense as a starter doesn’t look too bad.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=what+are+obi+toppin%27s+wins+and+losses+when+starting

I’m curious to see if he’ll be able to step it up on defense. For example, I think Randle will maul and appall Obi.

Notice that no one has posted any Obi Toppin defensive highlights. This team will definitely miss his athleticism and movement without the ball. Hali and TJ will definitely find him off cuts for easy baskets. But he still looks weak in defense and the boards. I'm not sure his scoring will be enough to offset the points he gives up.

EwingPSD wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Watched the highlights of Obi in preseason. You can tell they've already embraced him, and will be looking to get him going this season.

3 basket hanging dunks and a three. His offensive game has really evolved.

His offense as a starter doesn’t look too bad.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=what+are+obi+toppin%27s+wins+and+losses+when+starting

I’m curious to see if he’ll be able to step it up on defense. For example, I think Randle will maul and appall Obi.

Notice that no one has posted any Obi Toppin defensive highlights. This team will definitely miss his athleticism and movement without the ball. Hali and TJ will definitely find him off-cuts for easy baskets. But he still looks weak in defense and the boards. I'm not sure his scoring will be enough to offset the points he gives up.

99% of highlights happen on offense. That said Toppin has a big challenge ahead of him on defense. The Pacers don't over-help like us. They switch a lot, stay home, and try to limit 3s. That means more individual responsibility. As for rebounding, occasionally he'll get pushed under by the monsters that push just about everyone under sometimes but he'll generally be fine. The Knicks rebounded well with him on the floor all 3 years and no one mentioned his rebounding until year 3 when he was shooting the 3 well and still not playing. He'll be asked to grab a couple more in Indy b/c they aren't as good a rebounding team and he probably will.

Obi's rebounding has always been bad. He has a total rebounding rate of 11% and an averages 7 rebounds per 36 minutes for his career. The point about Indiana not over helping doesn't really change my view on Obi's defense since he's bad at help and man to man defense too. I would give Obi the benefit the doubt on the physical matchups, but he also fails to move his feet on the perimeter. Indiana not helping as much may expose Obi even more. His strength is scoring and he will have to do so on a high clip to justify a spot in the starting lineup.