Nalod wrote:Barkley rants last night:

He is not entirely wrong. Knicks are not top tier. A few pundits have us 3-4 in the east. PHilly might still be ahead of us if they can add another player. And yes, Cavj’s long term might have bigger upside given Mobleys ceiling.
Im happy with our team and its a better place then we have been in a long time.
Barkley is not considering Leons patience instead doing his job of sensationalizing the moment. I have no issues with what he said.
Fact is Minny not going to trade KAT until there is evidence this season is not going anywhere and they readjust the plan. Rudy is likley an untradable asset unless they give him away.

I doubt KAT for Randle and Evan is enough and I’d think Quick could be part of the trade. Quick is a luxury off the bench for sure but one im not sure we can afford long term.

What ever we think, KAT will cost more than we think. Seems to be how big trades go these days.

Not sure but I think Towns signed a super-max extension last season which will pay him between $50M - $61M over the next 4 seasons. If the Knicks ended up paying Quick $25M per season - the salaries of Randle combined with Quick would be only ~$5 Million higher than KAT's salary next season. Continues to be not worth it IMO especially considering KAT has been in the NBA for 8 Seasons and the Wolves finished last in their division 4 Times, 2nd to last 2 Times, below .500 record 5 times and never advanced past he first round of the playoffs (3X).....AND this includes playing with various guys like Lavine, Rubio, Butler, Wiggins, Edwards, Russell and Gobert along the way.

the same statement however is true for a lot of really, really good players. it may be true for Joel, KAT, many others.

To win it all, it seems you not only need a loaded team but you need that "it" guy who always finds a way to win, not just merely play well, but to come out on top

Personally I love Joel and think he's made for NY, but i'm also skeptical that he's got that "it" factor. KAT i am sure does not have that "it" factor.

If I'm in charge and if I'm selling the farm for that one guy he needs that "it"

Addendum:
when i look at current NBA players there are not many reasonably young "it" guys the way i seem to remember from yesteryear. If i were in charge i would do exactly what Leon is doing in staying disciplined and building depth and developing players. I think we need more clutch shooting, and one guy for those tough moments when you need a bucket. AT the moment i think that's Donovan and hopefully on a cheaper trade (with the pipedream of Donovan essentially saying he's going to NY anyway so Cleveland might as well get something for him). There are a lot of guys i can imagine being part of the team but i think he would be that "it" guy.

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I actually think that the key to an Embiid trade will be a malcontent Karl Anthony Towns/underachieving Wolves team. For all his flaws, KAT has been an advanced metric darling over the years. That quality should make him especially appealing to someone like Darryl Morey, who has built a career as a "numbers guy".

We could theoretically flip Julius Randle and Evan Fournier for Towns, since Randle is more cost-effective AND more of a natural 4 than Towns. I honestly don't think it would take many assets if any beyond the aforementioned players to complete. The next step would be to re-route Towns (Immanuel Quickley and Mitchell Robinson) with draft equity for Embiid (and Tobias Harris). "How much draft equity?" is anyone's guess but I suspect Morey would be more concerned with finding a way to get a defensive-minded forward to replace Mitchell Robinson that would allow KAT to play the 5 full-time again. Does anyone come to mind that fits that description (think a healthy Jonathan Isaac or offense-capable Jared Vanderbilt)? Because if we can find that player, I think we'd have the principles of a deal.

Hopefully we'd have enough left over to also trade for Mikal Bridges. I wonder how much traction we could get with a RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes, Duece McBride and remaining draft assets for Bridges and Royce O'Neale offer?

Knicks can’t trade Randle in a deal that lands back KAT or Embiid because then they have no Pf. I don’t see us getting Embiid anyways. He will stay with Philly until he’s into his 30s and then he’s far less appealing. KAT pairing with Randle will scare some people but also has the potential to getting us to the next step. And I’d keep Robinson as the 3rd big and bring him off the bench so we still have that defensive anchor as a safety net. At some point we do need to take the next step. Guys like Embiid and Giannis are too tough to wait for. KAT is still young and offers talent. He’s a gamble as most are, but we need to take a swing at some point. There’s no easy upgrade to our top 9 rotation that doesn’t include a star player.

KAT can't do PF? I don't really watch him at all

Putting him at PF is taking away a lot of the advantage he has I think. It’s the reason he’s struggling next to Gobert. I wouldn’t expect much different next to mitch. KAT can play some PF minutes but he’s most valuable at center.

Offensively, I agree. On defense he's probably better at the 4, but he sucks either way.

GustavBahler wrote:I'm opposed to bringing Embiid to NY, not at this stage in his career. But if the FO was all-in, I dont see how we would win it all without a pass first starting PG.

As constructed I think Joel is by far the best fit among possible stars. He’s a great rim protector, he’s provides spacing from the 5, and he is a master isolation scorer that thrives in a slower paced game. He is the one guy that would address the teams weaknesses, allow it to maintain its current play style, and wouldn't compromising it’s strengths. Joel makes the Knicks a Thibs dream imo

GustavBahler wrote:I'm opposed to bringing Embiid to NY, not at this stage in his career. But if the FO was all-in, I dont see how we would win it all without a pass first starting PG.

That is my one issue with Brunson. I personally want my PGs to be pass first. Brunson carried us last season so I give him a break but his lack of looking for others is not sitting right with me.

blkexec wrote:

Clean wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I'm opposed to bringing Embiid to NY, not at this stage in his career. But if the FO was all-in, I dont see how we would win it all without a pass first starting PG.

That is my one issue with Brunson. I personally want my PGs to be pass first. Brunson carried us last season so I give him a break but his lack of looking for others is not sitting right with me.

JOKE FOR THE DAY

What does a PASS FIRST PG have in common with a tyrannosaurus?

They are extinct.

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I'm opposed to bringing Embiid to NY, not at this stage in his career. But if the FO was all-in, I dont see how we would win it all without a pass first starting PG.

As constructed I think Joel is by far the best fit among possible stars. He’s a great rim protector, he’s provides spacing from the 5, and he is a master isolation scorer that thrives in a slower paced game. He is the one guy that would address the teams weaknesses, allow it to maintain its current play style, and wouldn't compromising it’s strengths. Joel makes the Knicks a Thibs dream imo

If Brunson was willing to be more of a distributor, we would be competitive. Otherwise its drama waiting to happen.

He doesn't need to be a playmaker with Joel. They just have to take turns and they are built to take turns. JB was willing to let Randle have a higher usage rate than him and got along with the usage super King in Dallas.

Embiid would not have won the MVP if Harden hadnt led the league in assists that season. He sure wouldnt have won it with a shoot first PG.

More importantly, to trade for a recent MVP in the same division as the Knicks is going to cost us a massive haul. What would be left?

As the FO tries to fill the holes in the roster left by the trade, Embiid will be getting older.

If we're giving away the store, I'd prefer it was for a younger player, which would give us more years of contention.

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I'm opposed to bringing Embiid to NY, not at this stage in his career. But if the FO was all-in, I dont see how we would win it all without a pass first starting PG.

As constructed I think Joel is by far the best fit among possible stars. He’s a great rim protector, he’s provides spacing from the 5, and he is a master isolation scorer that thrives in a slower paced game. He is the one guy that would address the teams weaknesses, allow it to maintain its current play style, and wouldn't compromising it’s strengths. Joel makes the Knicks a Thibs dream imo

If Brunson was willing to be more of a distributor, we would be competitive. Otherwise its drama waiting to happen.

He doesn't need to be a playmaker with Joel. They just have to take turns and they are built to take turns. JB was willing to let Randle have a higher usage rate than him and got along with the usage super King in Dallas.

Embiid would not have won the MVP if Harden hadnt led the league in assists that season. He sure wouldnt have won it with a shoot first PG.

More importantly, to trade for a recent MVP in the same division as the Knicks is going to cost us a massive haul. What would be left?

As the FO tries to fill the holes in the roster left by the trade, Embiid will be getting older.

If we're giving away the store, I'd prefer it was for a younger player, which would give us more years of contention.

He currently averaging 30, 11, and 7 without Embiid. He was averaging 30 in the 60 or so games before the Harden trade in 21-22. A healthy Joel is defiantly capable of winning MVP with a "shoot first PG". He doesn't need to be set up all night, he is consistently one of the best players in the league with or without Harding, and honestly, there are very few pass first PG left in the NBA.

Not a coincidence that Embiid won the MVP after Harden became more of a distributor in Philly. You're comparing the first 4 games to an 82 game season. Talk about a small sample size. Most PGs dont look for their shot as much as Brunson does.

I still wouldnt do a trade. Too old, much too expensive to trade with a division rival.

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

EwingPSD wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I'm opposed to bringing Embiid to NY, not at this stage in his career. But if the FO was all-in, I dont see how we would win it all without a pass first starting PG.

As constructed I think Joel is by far the best fit among possible stars. He’s a great rim protector, he’s provides spacing from the 5, and he is a master isolation scorer that thrives in a slower paced game. He is the one guy that would address the teams weaknesses, allow it to maintain its current play style, and wouldn't compromising it’s strengths. Joel makes the Knicks a Thibs dream imo

If Brunson was willing to be more of a distributor, we would be competitive. Otherwise its drama waiting to happen.

He doesn't need to be a playmaker with Joel. They just have to take turns and they are built to take turns. JB was willing to let Randle have a higher usage rate than him and got along with the usage super King in Dallas.

Embiid would not have won the MVP if Harden hadnt led the league in assists that season. He sure wouldnt have won it with a shoot first PG.

More importantly, to trade for a recent MVP in the same division as the Knicks is going to cost us a massive haul. What would be left?

As the FO tries to fill the holes in the roster left by the trade, Embiid will be getting older.

If we're giving away the store, I'd prefer it was for a younger player, which would give us more years of contention.

He currently averaging 30, 11, and 7 without Embiid. He was averaging 30 in the 60 or so games before the Harden trade in 21-22. A healthy Joel is defiantly capable of winning MVP with a "shoot first PG". He doesn't need to be set up all night, he is consistently one of the best players in the league with or without Harding, and honestly, there are very few pass first PG left in the NBA.

Not a coincidence that Embiid won the MVP after Harden became more of a distributor in Philly. You're comparing the first 4 games to an 82 game season. Talk about a small sample size. Most PGs dont look for their shot as much as Brunson does.

I still wouldnt do a trade. Too old, much too expensive to trade with a division rival.

It’s a total coincidence. Look at his acreages right now

https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2023/05/03/joel-embiid-singles-out-sixers-james-harden-after-winning-mvp-award/

Joel Embiid singles out Sixers' James Harden after winning MVP award

BOSTON–The Philadelphia 76ers pulled the trigger back in February 2022 to acquire James Harden from the Brooklyn Nets in order to have him team up with Joel Embiid and lead the Sixers to new heights. The two of them have combined to form one of the best tandems in the league on the court.

The pick-and-roll game between Harden and Embiid has been terrific and Harden’s playmaking and sacrifices have helped the big fella soar on the court. The Beard has clearly taken a step back and allowed Embiid to do his thing and his playmaking skills have helped him grow as a player.

Embiid led the league in scoring in the 2022-23 season on his way to winning the MVP award while Harden led the league in assists. The star big man made sure to give Harden his love for helping him win the award

James is, man, I don’t even know where to start,” Embiid smiled. “I think since he’s been here, I think he won’t tell me that, but I think he kinda made his goal for me to be the MVP. He’s given up a lot and obviously, I’ve always said it, he’s the best playmaker I’ve ever played with and he’s the best playmaker in probably the NBA.”

For Harden to go from ruthless scorer to elite playmaker has been a seamless transition. He has the ability to be a scorer when the time calls for it, such as Game 1 on Monday, but he has taken a bit of a backseat to Embiid and it has allowed everybody to succeed out on the floor.

“He’s been helping me as far as getting me easy opportunities whether it’s scoring the ball or just be a better basketball player on and off the court,” Embiid added of Harden. “He was just extremely happy for me just like they (his teammates) all were and that meant a lot for me. That meant a lot to me to know that your teammates care about you as much as I care about them.”

Highest scoring avg and fg pct of his career.