Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.

Nope.

His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.

Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.

I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.

I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.

Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.

The Knicks FO will take your approval into consideration

Booo lol I said it was the FO's call, not mine.

Right, but you need to see more evidence before they commit lol

They see him every day and you know Thibs sleeps in the gym

Well, I dont want to see them commit to McBride if he sucks for the rest of the season..right?

Again, commit to what?

The last roster spot?

The Knicks are never going to have a roster full of players they are "developing'

At the worst, he's 15th man. Theo Pinson with D. In the middle, a young, cheap, developmental piece. At best, a rotation player.

You're overthinking this.

This discussion started with Deuce being named as part of a rotation that could compete at a high level. That Deuce was just scratching the surface of his scoring ability. To he can be a 15th man at 1.8 million no big deal.

Yes, McBride can always be sent to the end of the bench. Or we can find someone in G-league who might have more to offer the team now. If we were talking about even a couple of years ago, I would agree with you to be patient.

The deeper the bench the better. Every roster spot counts now. We're closer to contending than we've been in a long time. Dont want the Knicks to wait on players who arent showing they're worth the wait.

Mykhailiuk and Arcidiacono played 13 games/37 total mins and 11/26, respectively. Every roster spot doesn't count.

And oh yeah, NONE of those 13 or 11 games were in contest when they appeared.

McBride is EXACTLY how you give those spots too when you're close to contending.

Continuity goes a long way. Roster churning in hopes of winning a lottery ticket is a fan sensibility, not NBA one.

There you go again with the psychoanalyzing. Fan sensibility? You mean like talking about Deuce's amazing untapped scoring potential? We have good young players, more draft picks on the way to develop. We still dont have enough offense to contend. If this is the best we see from McBride this season, absolutely I hope the FO tries to do better in the offseason. Untouchable? Nope.

Nothing to do with psychoanalyzing.

Basic observation.

NBA teams just don't view their last 2 roster spots that way. Nothing to do with you, or me. THEY just don't.

Knicks didn't think Mykhailiuk or Arcidiacono could maybe be future rotation pieces. They don't think Keels will be either.

They're warm bodies.

"Overthinking" "fan sensibility" thats really not hoops related. More about the poster than the post.

Thats true they were warm bodies this season. We could afford a few warm bodies this season. That was not by design. Thibs tried a bigger rotation. If he had enough to make that happen, I think he would have

Also no new draft picks to develop this season. Unless Keels gets some burn in the second half. It was unusual not to have recent picks on the roster this season.

Small rotation, not many injuries to players in the rotation (so far), means those warm bodies werent needed except as trade fodder. We've had seasons were we went to the very last player because of all the injuries. Its one thing to have a big on the roster who doesnt do a lot of scoring. But a guard who cant be counted on for scoring hasnt worked well for us in the past.

I always enjoy thinking of alternative ways to respond to stuff like this.

We'd agree the Milwaukee Bucks have legit title aspirations, and a top flight organization and head coach, right?

So, who is their 15th man? And why he is their 15th man?

If you answer is:

1.) to "develop" him

or

2.) to step in and play significant minutes if needed

... then start over ;-)

You tell me. Teams have specific needs. Bucks have a deep playoff roster, we dont. If the Bucks have a bad run of injuries, going into a deep playoff run. Who is at the end of the bench could be important.

Im all for using a spot to develop a player, if they show they're worth developing. Otherwise I dont see the point. I want to see a sign this season that Deuce is doing just that as a scorer. Not looking for a big jump. More of a willingness to take it to the rim. Because he isnt doing it as a 3pt shooter.

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:For me, adding a Mikal type moves NY into the range of solidifying at least a 6th seed moving forward (and probably up to the 3 seed range with internal improvement), that's their floor with all things being equal.

Mitch, Randle, Mikal, Grimes, Brunson. Deuce, IQ, Hart, Ben, iHart. You of course assume Thibs will play Randle 40+ minutes with Ben getting the remaining.

It is a wild high level of perimeter shooting and (more importantly) coverage. It makes the paint wide open for the likes of Randle and Brunson.

You got guys who can smother 1-3 and fly around the perimeter. You got guys who want to pummel you. You got rebounding up the wazoo.

For me, it's a modern Knicks 90's team.

I agree.. it would be a really good squad, but feel capped a bit and lacks the top heavy talent it (seems to) take to win a chip. Its a good next move but I dont think it's realistic.

I'm pretty convinced it's gonna be Towns. We'll move RJ/Obi/IHart/McBride and a bunch of picks and take on KAT and his stupid contract without totally wrecking our roster.

I would be pretty good with a "finished product" that looked something like this rotation:
Brunson/Grimes/JHart/Jules/KAT
bench: IQ/Mitch/pick-a-wing (maybe Fournier cause nykmentalcase loves him)

I'm for the same type of trade but for Embiib.

im in this camp. Embiid can handle NYC. pkg would probably include Mitch

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.

Nope.

His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.

Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.

I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.

I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.

Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.

The Knicks FO will take your approval into consideration

Booo lol I said it was the FO's call, not mine.

Right, but you need to see more evidence before they commit lol

They see him every day and you know Thibs sleeps in the gym

Well, I dont want to see them commit to McBride if he sucks for the rest of the season..right?

Again, commit to what?

The last roster spot?

The Knicks are never going to have a roster full of players they are "developing'

At the worst, he's 15th man. Theo Pinson with D. In the middle, a young, cheap, developmental piece. At best, a rotation player.

You're overthinking this.

This discussion started with Deuce being named as part of a rotation that could compete at a high level. That Deuce was just scratching the surface of his scoring ability. To he can be a 15th man at 1.8 million no big deal.

Yes, McBride can always be sent to the end of the bench. Or we can find someone in G-league who might have more to offer the team now. If we were talking about even a couple of years ago, I would agree with you to be patient.

The deeper the bench the better. Every roster spot counts now. We're closer to contending than we've been in a long time. Dont want the Knicks to wait on players who arent showing they're worth the wait.

Mykhailiuk and Arcidiacono played 13 games/37 total mins and 11/26, respectively. Every roster spot doesn't count.

And oh yeah, NONE of those 13 or 11 games were in contest when they appeared.

McBride is EXACTLY how you give those spots too when you're close to contending.

Continuity goes a long way. Roster churning in hopes of winning a lottery ticket is a fan sensibility, not NBA one.

There you go again with the psychoanalyzing. Fan sensibility? You mean like talking about Deuce's amazing untapped scoring potential? We have good young players, more draft picks on the way to develop. We still dont have enough offense to contend. If this is the best we see from McBride this season, absolutely I hope the FO tries to do better in the offseason. Untouchable? Nope.

Nothing to do with psychoanalyzing.

Basic observation.

NBA teams just don't view their last 2 roster spots that way. Nothing to do with you, or me. THEY just don't.

Knicks didn't think Mykhailiuk or Arcidiacono could maybe be future rotation pieces. They don't think Keels will be either.

They're warm bodies.

"Overthinking" "fan sensibility" thats really not hoops related. More about the poster than the post.

Thats true they were warm bodies this season. We could afford a few warm bodies this season. That was not by design. Thibs tried a bigger rotation. If he had enough to make that happen, I think he would have

Also no new draft picks to develop this season. Unless Keels gets some burn in the second half. It was unusual not to have recent picks on the roster this season.

Small rotation, not many injuries to players in the rotation (so far), means those warm bodies werent needed except as trade fodder. We've had seasons were we went to the very last player because of all the injuries. Its one thing to have a big on the roster who doesnt do a lot of scoring. But a guard who cant be counted on for scoring hasnt worked well for us in the past.

I always enjoy thinking of alternative ways to respond to stuff like this.

We'd agree the Milwaukee Bucks have legit title aspirations, and a top flight organization and head coach, right?

So, who is their 15th man? And why he is their 15th man?

If you answer is:

1.) to "develop" him

or

2.) to step in and play significant minutes if needed

... then start over ;-)

You tell me.

Okay.

His brother.

It isn't a coincidence,

Teams have specific needs. Bucks have a deep playoff roster, we dont. If the Bucks have a bad run of injuries, going into a deep playoff run. Who is at the end of the bench could be important.

Im all for using a spot to develop a player, if they show they're worth developing. Otherwise I dont see the point. I want to see a sign this season that Deuce is doing just that as a scorer. Not looking for a big jump. More of a willingness to take it to the rim. Because he isnt doing it as a 3pt shooter.

My hands are sort of tied Gustav, because if I say I think it's ridiculous you or any fan to slap a ceiling on a player of his age and experience and to get impatient, I get accused of unsavory things.

... but I think that.

So there's that.

Then there is the idea of "Who is at the end of the bench could be important."

If you're down to your 15th man, you're done.

Period.

Nobody's season is being saved by the 15th man. On the Miami Heat the 15th man is an Emeritus roster spot ... for real.

Knicks will have room on the roster for the Dallas pick rookie, an undrafted FA type, AND McBride.

And if you want to develop a G league type... well, good news, that's what the G League is for!!

But really, that's secondary. McBride is fine, is the real point.

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Don't get me wrong, I really like Mikal and would take him on the Knicks in a heart beat. My point was really "at what cost"? If you are exchanging him straight up for RJ - definitely a yes. If you have to send RJ, Obi and Picks and take back Simmons as well - just not worth it to me. Knicks really need an A player.....would rather continue to wait it out because when I look at competition in the East, spending that much to still not be able to get past the Celtics and Bucks and with other teams compiling talent (i.e. think of who will land Wembanyama).

That is the crux of it, at what cost.

For me, does Brooklyn right now have a player to build around? Face of franchise type player. Is Mikal that type of guy? I don't think so. Is RJ? I think a lot more than Mikal and you will get some traction from just being in NY. So maybe that works, maybe. I would do the exchange of RJ for Mikal too. I have no idea what teams need on the non-basketball side of things but for some reason I think RJ has some cred there.

Obi? Does Obi really have a path with the Knicks? For me, no. So you prob wouldn't care if he is moved or not. Plus he is up to be extended soon.

And the cost of Ben? That's just $$ and the Knicks shouldn't care about that too much, it's just Dolan who would be hit.

So the picks. No idea on that but the Knicks go a plenty and not very much room to have multiple rookies going on.

I agree that RJ has intangible value - however his on-court value is probably dipping at this point, hopefully he recovers some offensive acumen and the team continues moving upwards in the standings as to improve his off-season trade value should the FO choose to go in that direction.

Obi is a cost efficient back-up through next season even if not extended. If he is traded, Knicks would need to replace him. Not sure where this would come outside of a late FRP or the scrap heap.

Salaries - not sure how to make this work. Mikal and Simmons will be around $60 Million in combined salaries next year. Knicks are projected to be about $15M over the Cap for 2023 even with not executing Rose option and likely even less room with the JR making the all star team and his $2.3M incentive kicking in. RJ and Obi total about $31M. Would have to add something like Fournier, I-Hart and Deuce to make it work.

So the actual trade would look something like: RJ, Obi, Fournier, I-Hart, Deuce and Picks for Mikal and Simmons. Would need a 3rd team as Nets would likely have to either cut some of these guys or move them for picks.

Brunson
Grimes
Mikal
Randle
Mitch

Rokas / Simmons (assuming he is not released)
IQ
Open (J-Hart would need to be re-signed)
Open (FRP or Vet Minimum pickup)
Open (Simms would need to be re-signed)

Resigning J-Hart/Simms will leave the team probably ~$25M over the cap - I just don't think this move would set the team up well for the future.

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.

Nope.

His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.

Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.

I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.

I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.

Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.

The Knicks FO will take your approval into consideration

Booo lol I said it was the FO's call, not mine.

Right, but you need to see more evidence before they commit lol

They see him every day and you know Thibs sleeps in the gym

Well, I dont want to see them commit to McBride if he sucks for the rest of the season..right?

Again, commit to what?

The last roster spot?

The Knicks are never going to have a roster full of players they are "developing'

At the worst, he's 15th man. Theo Pinson with D. In the middle, a young, cheap, developmental piece. At best, a rotation player.

You're overthinking this.

This discussion started with Deuce being named as part of a rotation that could compete at a high level. That Deuce was just scratching the surface of his scoring ability. To he can be a 15th man at 1.8 million no big deal.

Yes, McBride can always be sent to the end of the bench. Or we can find someone in G-league who might have more to offer the team now. If we were talking about even a couple of years ago, I would agree with you to be patient.

The deeper the bench the better. Every roster spot counts now. We're closer to contending than we've been in a long time. Dont want the Knicks to wait on players who arent showing they're worth the wait.

Mykhailiuk and Arcidiacono played 13 games/37 total mins and 11/26, respectively. Every roster spot doesn't count.

And oh yeah, NONE of those 13 or 11 games were in contest when they appeared.

McBride is EXACTLY how you give those spots too when you're close to contending.

Continuity goes a long way. Roster churning in hopes of winning a lottery ticket is a fan sensibility, not NBA one.

There you go again with the psychoanalyzing. Fan sensibility? You mean like talking about Deuce's amazing untapped scoring potential? We have good young players, more draft picks on the way to develop. We still dont have enough offense to contend. If this is the best we see from McBride this season, absolutely I hope the FO tries to do better in the offseason. Untouchable? Nope.

Nothing to do with psychoanalyzing.

Basic observation.

NBA teams just don't view their last 2 roster spots that way. Nothing to do with you, or me. THEY just don't.

Knicks didn't think Mykhailiuk or Arcidiacono could maybe be future rotation pieces. They don't think Keels will be either.

They're warm bodies.

"Overthinking" "fan sensibility" thats really not hoops related. More about the poster than the post.

Thats true they were warm bodies this season. We could afford a few warm bodies this season. That was not by design. Thibs tried a bigger rotation. If he had enough to make that happen, I think he would have

Also no new draft picks to develop this season. Unless Keels gets some burn in the second half. It was unusual not to have recent picks on the roster this season.

Small rotation, not many injuries to players in the rotation (so far), means those warm bodies werent needed except as trade fodder. We've had seasons were we went to the very last player because of all the injuries. Its one thing to have a big on the roster who doesnt do a lot of scoring. But a guard who cant be counted on for scoring hasnt worked well for us in the past.

I always enjoy thinking of alternative ways to respond to stuff like this.

We'd agree the Milwaukee Bucks have legit title aspirations, and a top flight organization and head coach, right?

So, who is their 15th man? And why he is their 15th man?

If you answer is:

1.) to "develop" him

or

2.) to step in and play significant minutes if needed

... then start over ;-)

You tell me.

Okay.

His brother.

It isn't a coincidence,

Teams have specific needs. Bucks have a deep playoff roster, we dont. If the Bucks have a bad run of injuries, going into a deep playoff run. Who is at the end of the bench could be important.

Im all for using a spot to develop a player, if they show they're worth developing. Otherwise I dont see the point. I want to see a sign this season that Deuce is doing just that as a scorer. Not looking for a big jump. More of a willingness to take it to the rim. Because he isnt doing it as a 3pt shooter.

My hands are sort of tied Gustav, because if I say I think it's ridiculous you or any fan to slap a ceiling on a player of his age and experience and to get impatient, I get accused of unsavory things.

... but I think that.

So there's that.

Then there is the idea of "Who is at the end of the bench could be important."

If you're down to your 15th man, you're done.

Period.

Nobody's season is being saved by the 15th man. On the Miami Heat the 15th man is an Emeritus roster spot ... for real.

Knicks will have room on the roster for the Dallas pick rookie, an undrafted FA type, AND McBride.

And if you want to develop a G league type... well, good news, that's what the G League is for!!

But really, that's secondary. McBride is fine, is the real point.

Unsavory is discussing a poster's thought process. You do that a lot.

Where we disagree is wether or not Deuce has improved enough to this point to justify bringing him back next season. You're sold, I'm not. I would like to see more this season. If his value to the team pushes McBride to the last player on the roster, then it might be better if he played somewhere else. Where he might be a better fit.

Back to my original point, we dont have enough offense from this rotation, and McBride is one of the players who could help by stepping up.

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahkoi iijler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I like Deuce, but his D isnt enough to justify keeping him beyond this season.

Nope.

His $1.8m salary, the fact Thibs luvs him and and his status as a second year player who might not be anywhere near his potential offensive ceiling is.

Thats optmistic to say the least. If we dont see more than a brief glimpse of McBride's alleged unrealized potential. We can find players just as good in G-league, who can also put pts on the board.

I think the general consensus from what we can gather is that the Knicks love Deuce, especially at his price. He is the perfect end of bench guy with potential to get rotation minutes.

I get that part, I do. I believe to contend, we need as many rotation players as feasible, who can step up and score. When the D is daring them to.

Is McBride that kind of player? I'd like to see more evidence of that this season before the FO commits to Deuce beyond this season.

The Knicks FO will take your approval into consideration

Booo lol I said it was the FO's call, not mine.

Right, but you need to see more evidence before they commit lol

They see him every day and you know Thibs sleeps in the gym

Well, I dont want to see them commit to McBride if he sucks for the rest of the season..right?

Again, commit to what?

The last roster spot?

The Knicks are never going to have a roster full of players they are "developing'

At the worst, he's 15th man. Theo Pinson with D. In the middle, a young, cheap, developmental piece. At best, a rotation player.

You're overthinking this.

This discussion started with Deuce being named as part of a rotation that could compete at a high level. That Deuce was just scratching the surface of his scoring ability. To he can be a 15th man at 1.8 million no big deal.

Yes, McBride can always be sent to the end of the bench. Or we can find someone in G-league who might have more to offer the team now. If we were talking about even a couple of years ago, I would agree with you to be patient.

The deeper the bench the better. Every roster spot counts now. We're closer to contending than we've been in a long time. Dont want the Knicks to wait on players who arent showing they're worth the wait.

Mykhailiuk and Arcidiacono played 13 games/37 total mins and 11/26, respectively. Every roster spot doesn't count.

And oh yeah, NONE of those 13 or 11 games were in contest when they appeared.

McBride is EXACTLY how you give those spots too when you're close to contending.

Continuity goes a long way. Roster churning in hopes of winning a lottery ticket is a fan sensibility, not NBA one.

There you go again with the psychoanalyzing. Fan sensibility? You mean like talking about Deuce's amazing untapped scoring potential? We have good young players, more draft picks on the way to develop. We still dont have enough offense to contend. If this is the best we see from McBride this season, absolutely I hope the FO tries to do better in the offseason. Untouchable? Nope.

Nothing to do with psychoanalyzing.

Basic observation.

NBA teams just don't view their last 2 roster spots that way. Nothing to do with you, or me. THEY just don't.

Knicks didn't think Mykhailiuk or Arcidiacono could maybe be future rotation pieces. They don't think Keels will be either.

They're warm bodies.

"Overthinking" "fan sensibility" thats really not hoops related. More about the poster than the post.

Thats true they were warm bodies this season. We could afford a few warm bodies this season. That was not by design. Thibs tried a bigger rotation. If he had enough to make that happen, I think he would have

Also no new draft picks to develop this season. Unless Keels gets some burn in the second half. It was unusual not to have recent picks on the roster this season.

Small rotation, not many injuries to players in the rotation (so far), means those warm bodies werent needed except as trade fodder. We've had seasons were we went to the very last player because of all the injuries. Its one thing to have a big on the roster who doesnt do a lot of scoring. But a guard who cant be counted on for scoring hasnt worked well for us in the past.

I always enjoy thinking of alternative ways to respond to stuff like this.

We'd agree the Milwaukee Bucks have legit title aspirations, and a top flight organization and head coach, right?

So, who is their 15th man? And why he is their 15th man?

If you answer is:

1.) to "develop" him

or

2.) to step in and play significant minutes if needed

... then start over ;-)

You tell me.

Okay.

His brother.

It isn't a coincidence,

Teams have specific needs. Bucks have a deep playoff roster, we dont. If the Bucks have a bad run of injuries, going into a deep playoff run. Who is at the end of the bench could be important.

Im all for using a spot to develop a player, if they show they're worth developing. Otherwise I dont see the point. I want to see a sign this season that Deuce is doing just that as a scorer. Not looking for a big jump. More of a willingness to take it to the rim. Because he isnt doing it as a 3pt shooter.

My hands are sort of tied Gustav, because if I say I think it's ridiculous you or any fan to slap a ceiling on a player of his age and experience and to get impatient, I get accused of unsavory things.

... but I think that.

So there's that.

Then there is the idea of "Who is at the end of the bench could be important."

If you're down to your 15th man, you're done.

Period.

Nobody's season is being saved by the 15th man. On the Miami Heat the 15th man is an Emeritus roster spot ... for real.

Knicks will have room on the roster for the Dallas pick rookie, an undrafted FA type, AND McBride.

And if you want to develop a G league type... well, good news, that's what the G League is for!!

But really, that's secondary. McBride is fine, is the real point.

Unsavory is discussing a poster's thought process. You do that a lot.

Because there IS significant disconnect between fans perception of sports and actual sports.

I don't have other, better ways to describe that.

And then you can tell me sports fans don't psychoanalyze players and coaches and executives ALL the time.

Go ahead.... try ;-)

Where we disagree is wether or not Deuce has improved enough to this point to justify bringing him back next season. You're sold, I'm not.

Nope, not it all at all.

Where we disagree is whether or not he has to.

I would like to see more this season. If his value to the team pushes McBride to the last player on the roster, then it might be better if he played somewhere else. Where he might be a better fit.

As I've clearly stated, you are ignoring other relevant value he brings to the roster and locker room, all of which go away if he's playing for another team.

Back to my original point, we dont have enough offense from this rotation, and McBride is one of the players who could help by stepping up.

As could Rose, Fournier, Toppin, or Keels or another guy in that roster spot or the 15th unfilled roster sport. Or by more efficient offense by guys already in the rotation.

There's no factor compelling it needs to come from a second round player the Knicks KNEW might take a few years given where they drafted him.

Werent you saying the same thing about being patient with Frank? Frank brought those same "intangibles". He's in the "where are they now file". Cheap contract or not, I dont want to see "Frank Part Deux", if it can be avoided. I hope Deuce has a great second half. Not untradeable though.

SupremeCommander wrote:Why anyone would want Ben Simmons is beyond me. There is an article in the post comparing him to Penny Hardaway, and I like that comp, as both had a great start to their careers, then it just all went to **** for both

Give me Mikal. Do you want RJ?

Hardaways knee(s) were toast at an early age. Whats ailing Simmons seems to be mostly between the ears.

SupremeCommander wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:Why anyone would want Ben Simmons is beyond me. There is an article in the post comparing him to Penny Hardaway, and I like that comp, as both had a great start to their careers, then it just all went to **** for both

Give me Mikal. Do you want RJ?

Hardaways knee(s) were toast at an early age. Whats ailing Simmons seems to be mostly between the ears.

oh yeah, it is not an apples:apples comp, but they were both effective for four years, and they both were sad as hell to watch after that.

it's not my comp, so I will drop the article here

Thanks. I think the writer missed a better comp on the team..Nick Anderson. Remember the 4 missed free throws in the Finals? Wasnt the same player afterwards.

Knickoftime wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

martin wrote:

foosballnick wrote:Don't get me wrong, I really like Mikal and would take him on the Knicks in a heart beat. My point was really "at what cost"? If you are exchanging him straight up for RJ - definitely a yes. If you have to send RJ, Obi and Picks and take back Simmons as well - just not worth it to me. Knicks really need an A player.....would rather continue to wait it out because when I look at competition in the East, spending that much to still not be able to get past the Celtics and Bucks and with other teams compiling talent (i.e. think of who will land Wembanyama).

That is the crux of it, at what cost.

For me, does Brooklyn right now have a player to build around? Face of franchise type player. Is Mikal that type of guy? I don't think so. Is RJ? I think a lot more than Mikal and you will get some traction from just being in NY. So maybe that works, maybe. I would do the exchange of RJ for Mikal too. I have no idea what teams need on the non-basketball side of things but for some reason I think RJ has some cred there.

Obi? Does Obi really have a path with the Knicks? For me, no. So you prob wouldn't care if he is moved or not. Plus he is up to be extended soon.

And the cost of Ben? That's just $$ and the Knicks shouldn't care about that too much, it's just Dolan who would be hit.

So the picks. No idea on that but the Knicks go a plenty and not very much room to have multiple rookies going on.

I agree that RJ has intangible value - however his on-court value is probably dipping at this point, hopefully he recovers some offensive acumen and the team continues moving upwards in the standings as to improve his off-season trade value should the FO choose to go in that direction.

Obi is a cost efficient back-up through next season even if not extended. If he is traded, Knicks would need to replace him. Not sure where this would come outside of a late FRP or the scrap heap.

Salaries - not sure how to make this work. Mikal and Simmons will be around $60 Million in combined salaries next year. Knicks are projected to be about $15M over the Cap for 2023 even with not executing Rose option and likely even less room with the JR making the all star team and his $2.3M incentive kicking in. RJ and Obi total about $31M. Would have to add something like Fournier, I-Hart and Deuce to make it work.

So the actual trade would look something like: RJ, Obi, Fournier, I-Hart, Deuce and Picks for Mikal and Simmons. Would need a 3rd team as Nets would likely have to either cut some of these guys or move them for picks.

Brunson
Grimes
Mikal
Randle
Mitch

Rokas / Simmons (assuming he is not released)
IQ
Open (J-Hart would need to be re-signed)
Open (FRP or Vet Minimum pickup)
Open (Simms would need to be re-signed)

Resigning J-Hart/Simms will leave the team probably ~$25M over the cap - I just don't think this move would set the team up well for the future.

Simms is locked up for the next two seasons for cheap.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/jericho-sims-74166/

U R correct. I read the footnotes wrong.

martin wrote:😍

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/ianbegley/status/1626061871156436993

Now he’s really unattainable lol.