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Hartenstein is a Knick!
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martin
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7/2/2022  11:46 AM
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martin
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7/5/2022  7:57 PM
He is just going to be so fun to watch

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martin
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7/6/2022  8:56 AM
Nice article

https://theathletic.com/3401885/2022/07/06/isaiah-hartenstein-knicks/

Get to know Isaiah Hartenstein, Knicks’ newest center
Fred Katz, Law Murray


Jalen Brunson isn’t the only signing for the New York Knicks so far.

On the first night of free agency, New York agreed to a two-year contract with former LA Clippers center Isaiah Hartenstein. Hartenstein, who is coming off a breakout season in L.A., projects to back up Mitchell Robinson. Now, it’s time to discuss how Hartenstein might fit in his new role.

Clippers beat writer Law Murray received five pressing questions about Hartenstein from Knicks beat writer Fred Katz, touching on what makes the 24-year-old such an effective defender, how his passing can help the Knicks, which players he might develop the best chemistry with and more.

Hartenstein was almost like the point guard of the Clippers’ second unit last season. No, he didn’t bring the ball up, but the Clippers ran so much of their second-unit offense through him once they got into the half court. The Knicks, though, have lots of guards and wings who will handle a decent amount: Julius Randle, RJ Barrett and Jalen Brunson with the starters and Derrick Rose and Immanuel Quickley with the reserves. Assuming Hartenstein plays 18 to 22 minutes a game and is mostly with the bench lineups, what do you think is a good way for the Knicks to use him?

The interesting thing about Hartenstein going from the Clippers to the Knicks is that he’s going from one team that looked to spot shooters up, run pick-and-rolls and isolate, to a new team that does the same. Both the Clippers and Knicks were slightly below average in pick-and-roll offense, and both were terrible in isolation. But the Clippers were one of the best-shooting teams in the league last season, while the Knicks … were not.

Hartenstein’s connection with Luke Kennard, the league’s most accurate 3-point shooter last season, was perhaps the highlight of his playmaking. Kennard was the primary recipient of Hartenstein passes last season and the main 3-point target that Hartenstein found, with Terance Mann coming in second and leading the way in Hartenstein’s assist targets inside the arc.

The Knicks have an opportunity to unlock parts of their offense with Hartenstein that they couldn’t with Mitchell Robinson, Nerlens Noel, Taj Gibson or Jericho Sims at center. They can get Hartenstein elbow touches, where he can pivot and find cutters or run handoffs with shooters. Quickley, in particular, should get his connection with Hartenstein going to generate 3s. When Evan Fournier is on the floor with Hartenstein, I expect Fournier to get even more looks from deep.

And yes, Fred, he can bring the ball up! Hartenstein is not merely a basic read passer. The Knicks are going to have to learn how to cut better, particularly Barrett. Hartenstein learned from Nikola Jokić about precision passing, and he looks to get his teammates going in a variety of ways. I’d argue that Hartenstein was underutilized offensively in L.A. New York doesn’t have to fall into the same pattern despite its relative abundance of ballhandlers.

The advanced stats paint Hartenstein as one of the best rim protectors in the NBA this past season, but he doesn’t affect layups and dunks the same way as Robinson, who intimidates with his never-ending arms and athleticism. What does Hartenstein do that makes him so effective there?

Hartenstein is a legitimate 7-footer, and he challenges everything. He was the best shot blocker on the team last season, and he combined with Ivica Zubac to help the Clippers rank third in the NBA in field-goal differential within six feet of the basket last season. Hartenstein had the same number of blocks as Zubac (77) despite playing more than 600 fewer minutes. Only Hassan Whiteside and Isaiah Jackson averaged more than Hartenstein’s 1.1 blocks per game while playing fewer than 20 minutes per game last season.

Hartenstein rotates well to help, and even when he gets beat off the dribble, he has enough length to get back into plays and challenge for blocks. He shared during the season that he watches a lot of film and prioritizes staying vertical. He’s willing to get dunked on if it means saving a bucket. Hartenstein’s effectiveness at the rim was the best part of his season, and it’s what helped him beat out Harry Giles III in the 2021 preseason to secure the Clippers’ final roster spot.

The other side of Hartenstein’s defense is the hacking. He finished eighth in the league in fouls per minute this past season. Six of those eight players were backup centers whose teams let them play aggressively in limited minutes. There will be nights when Hartenstein has to run for more minutes because of Robinson’s foul trouble. The Knicks could have some issues guarding guys on the perimeter, which would mean contesting more shots in the paint, too. How do you anticipate the trend carries over to the Knicks?

Every game Hartenstein played last season was off the bench behind Zubac, and Hartenstein hasn’t played 30 minutes in a game since December 2019. It will be interesting to see how Hartenstein would handle a longer leash because he is certainly a magnet for fouls. Last season, Hartenstein averaged a career-best 4.9 personal fouls per 36 minutes. The fouls show up most notably in the post; despite Hartenstein’s size at 250 pounds, he can get overwhelmed by the league’s more physical interior scorers. That physicality shows up on the glass at times too; while Hartenstein is a great rim protector, he’s not as impressive when it comes to defensive rebounding.

The Clippers were the second-best team in the league last season at guarding without fouling, while the Knicks were in the bottom 10 in that category. Hartenstein is still a young player, having only turned 24 this past spring. But foul trouble is going to be an issue for New York and for Hartenstein next season, and Knicks head coach Tom Thibodeau will have to account for that.

Hartenstein is not a stretch five, and he’s never been a stretch five, but over the final week and a half of this past season, he started taking 3s and was making them. It’s not like these were meaningless April games. The Clippers were fighting for a playoff spot and still endorsed the change enough to let him do it. Hartenstein made eight 3s over his last five games, sinking at least one triple in each of them. Is this a flukish 10-day stretch or is there reason to think he could step out to the arc moving forward?

It took Hartenstein all season to get the green light from 3, but his light was certainly yellow when the season started. Hartenstein rarely shot from beyond the arc before March, making only four 3-pointers through the end of February. That total matched his career output entering this season. Hartenstein barely looks at the basket anyway, as we have established how much of a pass-first player he is. To say that he was content with his role is an understatement.

But when the Clippers were in Chicago at the end of March, Hartenstein had coach Tyronn Lue look at the eight 3s that he had in a 2019 G-League playoff game with the Rio Grande Valley Vipers. In the G League, Hartenstein made 56 3s in 85 games, including the postseason. The Clippers coaching staff finally gave Hartenstein the green light, and he made 8-of-13 3s.

Hartenstein isn’t going to make half of his 3s all of a sudden, but I was surprised that Hartenstein only had a yellow light from 3. I told him as much during the season. As I mentioned before, Hartenstein was quite underutilized in L.A. offensively. Memo to Tom Thibodeau: give Hartenstein that green light! After seeing Taj Gibson embrace the 3 last season, I don’t think Hartenstein will have a problem finding some shots from deep in New York.

Let’s assume the Knicks’ second unit is Hartenstein, Rose, Quickley, Quentin Grimes and Obi Toppin, though Cam Reddish could squeeze his way in there somehow, as well. You watch the league. You know these players’ tendencies. Which of them do you think Hartenstein is most likely to make better? Is there someone in the first unit you see his game meshing with particularly well?

If Grimes (ironically, a draft pick made for the Knicks by the Clippers last year) is going to be in that second unit, then I believe that Hartenstein can help free him up for prime looks. I would have said the same about Reddish, but his 3-pointer abandoned him in New York, while Grimes is already a 38 percent shooter from deep and wouldn’t be doing a whole lot of ballhandling with Rose and Quickley on the floor.

I mentioned Fournier as another shooter that Hartenstein could help get going, but I would imagine that Barrett is going to play with Hartenstein quite often. They’re both left-handed players, and Hartenstein shared the floor often with another southpaw wing in Los Angeles: Amir Coffey. I can envision plenty of handoffs that get Barrett downhill with Hartenstein rolling as a lob threat or for one of his elite-level floaters. New York missed having a solid roll man who could also cut and finish when Robinson was off the floor last season. They have a solid player in that role now with Hartenstein, and it’s up to Barrett to show that he can be a better playmaker to take advantage of what Hartenstein can do.

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BingBong
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7/6/2022  10:30 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/6/2022  10:40 AM
Thanks for posting. Good read.

I wasn't aware that Hart is also left handed. Interesting (to me anyway) because the Knicks front office's biggest concern about Rokas Jokubaitis was that he was left handed and they said it could be a problem working with left handed RJ, yet failed to mention that Randle is also left-handed. Since then, they've acquired a left handed PG in Brunson and a left handed PF/C Hart. Not sure what to make of that unless the team is working to become the only all left-handed team in the NBA. I guess if the left hand is dominate and facing a right handed opponent, it's dominate hand against dominate hand which would be good for defense...not so much in offense. According to crap I learned in school, right handed people are more pragmatic and analytical; whereas, left handed people tend to be artistic and creative. Could that make a difference in basketball? It's a big deal in baseball of course (unless you are a non-first baseman infielder). I have a friend (left handed squash pro) who has told me many times over the years that left handed athletes in racquet sports have an unfair advantage over right handed people. Or maybe it's all just a bunch of hooey. Whatever it is, the Knicks are sure loading up on them.

edit: Jericho Sims is also left-handed, but ambidextrous and shot foul shots with this left hand throughout high school and as a freshman in college, then started shooting foul shots with his right hand in his sophomore year. In his freshman year his FT% was .426, and each year a slight improvement so by his senior year he was shooting .520 (not great) and as a Knick last year he shot 41% from the free throw line.

martin
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7/6/2022  11:18 AM
BingBong wrote:Thanks for posting. Good read.

I wasn't aware that Hart is also left handed. Interesting (to me anyway) because the Knicks front office's biggest concern about Rokas Jokubaitis was that he was left handed and they said it could be a problem working with left handed RJ, yet failed to mention that Randle is also left-handed. Since then, they've acquired a left handed PG in Brunson and a left handed PF/C Hart. Not sure what to make of that unless the team is working to become the only all left-handed team in the NBA. I guess if the left hand is dominate and facing a right handed opponent, it's dominate hand against dominate hand which would be good for defense...not so much in offense. According to crap I learned in school, right handed people are more pragmatic and analytical; whereas, left handed people tend to be artistic and creative. Could that make a difference in basketball? It's a big deal in baseball of course (unless you are a non-first baseman infielder). I have a friend (left handed squash pro) who has told me many times over the years that left handed athletes in racquet sports have an unfair advantage over right handed people. Or maybe it's all just a bunch of hooey. Whatever it is, the Knicks are sure loading up on them.

edit: Jericho Sims is also left-handed, but ambidextrous and shot foul shots with this left hand throughout high school and as a freshman in college, then started shooting foul shots with his right hand in his sophomore year. In his freshman year his FT% was .426, and each year a slight improvement so by his senior year he was shooting .520 (not great) and as a Knick last year he shot 41% from the free throw line.

dang, Jericho too?!

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Swishfm3
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7/6/2022  11:20 AM
I hate that he only signed a two year deal.

I'm saying it now....he is going to outplay Robinson this coming season.

fishmike
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7/6/2022  12:21 PM
Swishfm3 wrote:I hate that he only signed a two year deal.

I'm saying it now....he is going to outplay Robinson this coming season.


he's not the athlete Mitch is but he does a lot of things really well that are going to put pressure on Mitch to be a better player. #1 is setting screens which Mitch sucks at and its just gotta improve.
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martin
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7/7/2022  8:29 AM
Another good article: https://theknickswall.com/isaiah-hartenstein-adds-new-look-knicks-bench/

As well:

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Knixkik
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7/7/2022  8:50 AM
I questioned investing in another center, but hoping we got a steal who can provide a different look at the center position. He clearly compliments Mitch bringing different skills while still being a good defensive big.
martin
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7/7/2022  9:15 AM
Knixkik wrote:I questioned investing in another center, but hoping we got a steal who can provide a different look at the center position. He clearly compliments Mitch bringing different skills while still being a good defensive big.

I have to tell you, I loved the iHart signing and think he can be key to adding a dimension to the Knicks that they have not had, and he has got plenty of upside given his minutes so far. Feel like this situation is like when Jusuf Nurkić was traded from Denver to Portland after playing behind Nikola Jokić for a couple of years.

Also think that the Mitch signing was more of a Push call by the FO, i.e. it would have been more of a (short-term) loss if they didn't sign him rather than they thought he was a major resign priority and major building block to keep.

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CanItGetAnyWorse
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7/7/2022  9:17 AM
martin wrote:Another good article: https://theknickswall.com/isaiah-hartenstein-adds-new-look-knicks-bench/

As well:

Nice new metric, thanks for that.
I love the Hartenstein pickup. I wonder if he eventually ends up being our starter though? I like Mitch a lot but I wonder on a few things - Will he stay healthy? Will he develop an offensive game? Will he up his FT%? 15 million a year seems excessive and Mitch will be a liability in the playoffs at the end of games.

I wish we would have not made the 2nd trade by shipping off Duren. I think he would have been a great backup to Hartenstein and eventually a great starter who can shoot a bit and also hit his free throws (along with playing good defense and most of what Mitch does, eventually anyway.)

BigDaddyG
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7/9/2022  6:10 PM
Warning, it's a rabbit hole. Also, they may need to ramp up security around Hart during the off-season.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hartenstein/comments/pldolm/7_amazing_isaiah_hartenstein_facts_oc/
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Jmpasq
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7/9/2022  7:09 PM
foosballnick wrote:
MS wrote:Honestly…

Still not a great result.

He’s overpaid Julius whose turned into a diva.

He signed three guys he didn’t need to and had to give up a pick to do so. The kid we traded to the Pistons looks like he could be a nice player.

He wasted a first on Cam Resdish for no apparent reason.

Obi over Haliburton.

Fournier over Bullock.

So we are a 6th seed locked in with no future space. He needs to do something.

But, this is a nice signing. Even Bill Simmons and the guys at the ringer liked it.

Jalen is a nice player, you need to overpay everyone, the number doesn’t seem terrible.


The measure of competency is not the mistakes you make - but how you fix those mistakes.

Also .... I'm not sure Randle's salary was an overpayment given where salaries are currently trending (i.e. $50M-$60M for super max deals) and projected increases to the cap. Randle will be $23.7 next year - then $25.6, $27.5 and a player option at $29.4.

Isn't Lillard making 60 million a year with his 2 year extension

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Jmpasq
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7/9/2022  7:10 PM
martin wrote:
TPercy wrote:This is a A++++++ signing.

The added benefits that come with this signing are extraordinary


Why can't I be 7'0" tall.

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Kemet
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7/9/2022  8:03 PM
Ssh, don't tell Knicks FO but FA Hartenstein are the FA you sign in Aug not July.
Who would a contender team sign as a backup F/C? Hartenstein or Taj Gibson ???
ToddTT
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7/9/2022  8:23 PM
Jmpasq wrote:Why can't I be 7'0" tall.

What would 7’, ugly and broke get you?


Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
BigDaddyG
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7/9/2022  10:46 PM
ToddTT wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Why can't I be 7'0" tall.

What would 7’, ugly and broke get you?


Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
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7/11/2022  2:51 PM
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technomaster
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7/11/2022  6:06 PM
martin wrote:

I love these highlight vids. Looks like a bonafide superstar.
Actually, I think he's got some Pau Gasol vibes, particularly around the high post - he's very aware of what's going on the court and looks like he has a pretty wide range of moves and counters - he makes some really slick passes.

In close games, I can see the Knicks potentially going with iHart as a closer in the 4th quarter in close games - he'll help his teammates kick the hero-ball isolation habit.

I really like the addition of him and Brunson as ball movers and as opportunistic players that see/feel/probe for high percentage shots. They're good "system" players that make opponents pay for defensive lapses.

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Jmpasq
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7/11/2022  8:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/11/2022  8:34 PM
martin wrote:He is just going to be so fun to watch

Nice signing. We needed a player that could give the team a different look. All of our bigs were rim runners outisde of Randle. Made the team a little stale. Advanced stats say this guy is an elite center. Why the hell does he keep bouncing around?

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Hartenstein is a Knick!

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