BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:I think the FO won’t retool significantly. We’re not contenders but that is ok when the core is young. I expect them to fix the leaks, tighten the depth, and continue to build a war chest of young talent. I am far from a Randle fan, but I also don’t think they move him or Mitch. Grab a reliable PG like Tyus, get a vet who can mentor the wings like Hayward. Pay Mitch because he can defend the perimeter and go into year three of a rebuild. I think they can push for the playoffs again if they do that because it would fix their defense.

Agree on all points except I think we get a different veteran PG. Tyus will want too much money

You might be right… I just hope the Allure of being a starter is enough. Knicks could offer him a 3 year player option MLE and if he shows and proves he would get more money on the next contract I. Two years than what he’ll get backing up Ja.

Think of guys Like Lowry and Dragic who were initially backups, but took chances on themselves becoming starters and got paid.

The problem with signing Tyus is we don’t even have any assets that Memphis would want in a sign and trade. They already have a defensive Center. Their wing players are better than guys like Burks and EF

After the playoffs I doubt even Dallas does the much rumored Knicks fan fiction sign and trade of Mitch and picks for Brunson. And that Randle for Brunson trade scenario? There’s no way

There is little probablity given the complexities of signing and trades than the simple arrogance of fan fiction which you fail to recognize on yourself.

But there is one thing to all of this and thats Dallas needs a rim. Protector if they think aspire to advance. They can’t stop Warriors. Warriors are deep and playing great. Dallas got a bit lucky to get PHX vulnerable as they were. We also got to see Michyel Bridges offensive limitations and think how it would not have worked if we drafted him. PHX went as far as PG3 could take them and he broke down again.
Warriors are healthy and Dallas has no answers. If they want to advance then need more. That makes Brunson expendable. They can go in many directions not with Knicks too.

It would seem Magic winning the draft would let MoBamba walk. They got lucky in the draft and they still have Jonathon Issac under big bucks. If they can get him back on the court with Jabari Smith that could be very powerful. Another team in the east on the rise perhaps?

Last season we no doubt had some issues but a stronger pool of teams in the east kept us from the play in games which at best was what pundits had predicted.

Bing Bong: Seems the loyal fan wishes did not jive with the reality and thus were crushed.
PHX booed their team game 7. IT happens. Yes, Randle should have handled it better. Lets be real, he gave thumbs down and we came back and beat the celtics. That game BTW was the last blown lead Celts gave and that was a turning point for them.
Randle then told a reporter to STFU>. not fans.

I think Isaac is a candidate to be movedas well. With Wagner and whoever they tap in the top 3, Isaac would probably be redundant. And he's never on the court. Of course, moving Isaac might be easier said than done.

Can't imagine were the minutes become that tight where they don't play him regardless of who they pick and how they play. You play him and if he performs his trade value increases. If not, he is goes into that rare place were he don't play and insurance picks up the tab. Its a bad place but it happens.
Magic drafts via position or best player available? Or trade down and get an asset. Either way its good.

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

wargames wrote:I think the FO won’t retool significantly. We’re not contenders but that is ok when the core is young. I expect them to fix the leaks, tighten the depth, and continue to build a war chest of young talent. I am far from a Randle fan, but I also don’t think they move him or Mitch. Grab a reliable PG like Tyus, get a vet who can mentor the wings like Hayward. Pay Mitch because he can defend the perimeter and go into year three of a rebuild. I think they can push for the playoffs again if they do that because it would fix their defense.

Agree on all points except I think we get a different veteran PG. Tyus will want too much money

You might be right… I just hope the Allure of being a starter is enough. Knicks could offer him a 3 year player option MLE and if he shows and proves he would get more money on the next contract I. Two years than what he’ll get backing up Ja.

Think of guys Like Lowry and Dragic who were initially backups, but took chances on themselves becoming starters and got paid.

The problem with signing Tyus is we don’t even have any assets that Memphis would want in a sign and trade. They already have a defensive Center. Their wing players are better than guys like Burks and EF

After the playoffs I doubt even Dallas does the much rumored Knicks fan fiction sign and trade of Mitch and picks for Brunson. And that Randle for Brunson trade scenario? There’s no way

There is little probablity given the complexities of signing and trades than the simple arrogance of fan fiction which you fail to recognize on yourself.

But there is one thing to all of this and thats Dallas needs a rim. Protector if they think aspire to advance. They can’t stop Warriors. Warriors are deep and playing great. Dallas got a bit lucky to get PHX vulnerable as they were. We also got to see Michyel Bridges offensive limitations and think how it would not have worked if we drafted him. PHX went as far as PG3 could take them and he broke down again.
Warriors are healthy and Dallas has no answers. If they want to advance then need more. That makes Brunson expendable. They can go in many directions not with Knicks too.

It would seem Magic winning the draft would let MoBamba walk. They got lucky in the draft and they still have Jonathon Issac under big bucks. If they can get him back on the court with Jabari Smith that could be very powerful. Another team in the east on the rise perhaps?

Last season we no doubt had some issues but a stronger pool of teams in the east kept us from the play in games which at best was what pundits had predicted.

Bing Bong: Seems the loyal fan wishes did not jive with the reality and thus were crushed.
PHX booed their team game 7. IT happens. Yes, Randle should have handled it better. Lets be real, he gave thumbs down and we came back and beat the celtics. That game BTW was the last blown lead Celts gave and that was a turning point for them.
Randle then told a reporter to STFU>. not fans.

I think Isaac is a candidate to be movedas well. With Wagner and whoever they tap in the top 3, Isaac would probably be redundant. And he's never on the court. Of course, moving Isaac might be easier said than done.

Can't imagine were the minutes become that tight where they don't play him regardless of who they pick and how they play. You play him and if he performs his trade value increases. If not, he is goes into that rare place were he don't play and insurance picks up the tab. Its a bad place but it happens.
Magic drafts via position or best player available? Or trade down and get an asset. Either way its good.

Jimbo5 wrote:The likelihood of the knicks and Randle parting ways this offseason seems little. His trade value is at an all time low, his new 4 year extension will kick in next year. The FO will be in a pickle with the Randle situation, trying to increase his trade value means letting him play. The knicks fans saw Obi's final few games and it captivated the fan base. Alot of fans will expect Obi to play 20-25mins or so and with Randle on the roster and Thibs refusing to play small ball, this scenario could be a disaster waiting to happen. The last few games atlease for me is the most enjoyable games the knicks play all season. Randle mentally has been struggling, the pressure got to him. Im sure knicks fans wont be shy to boo Randle with every mistake he does specially now the knicks fans can't unsee what Obi might be capable of doing if given a chance to play.

For me there are three major issues the FO needs to address in the offseason.

1. The starting center- i wont Mitch back if not get a young shotblocking rebounding and hopefully a 3point shooting Center.

2. Finally solve the starting point guard question. The FO needs to fully evaluate They have 3 young point guards on their stable: IQ, Deuce and Rokas(in Europe. Is IQ really the starting point guard in 2-3 years time? Are the seeing Rokas joining the team next year and grabing the starting stop? Or is it Deuce? The 1st need to answer these questions to know what point guard they need. Is it a veteran mentor to groom IQ, is it a short 1year placeholder until Rokas arrives? Or will they outsource the starting PG of the future?

3. They need to have a plan for Randle and let the fans in it. If the plan to build his trade stock, knicks fams should be supportive of it coz booing Randle will only bring out the worse in him.

The knicks wont necessarily need a major facelift, aside from securing the starting Center and PG, they ned to build a much better team chemistry. I think the team's young group are solid, as early as now they have been working out. Ironically the FO brought in veterans to bring stability and help show team chemistry but they havent done that this year.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:If Randle gets it back together, why trade him if team is doing well unless we get an offer we can't refuse?
Chemistry was great this year except to start when Kemba and EF pissing off Randle. That all got fixed. Randle's sour disposition did not infect the the locker room.

Issac is very openly intense christian and the Devoss family must love that. He is a florida kid and if he can play they can still play him with Jabari Smith if they don't take Holmgren who has the highest ceiling but will scare little children with that face.

Not just Jabari, but Franz. This is all assumptions based on a rumor from a reputable source (Givony), but you don't key in on Jabari if you still consider Isaac as part of the future. Wagner was just a bit off from winning ROY. Isaac's got to see the writing on the wall. I think Banchero should be the #1 choice, but my opinion means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I do mostly agree. Take the best player on the board and see how it fits. If its Chet, he needs time to develop. If Jabari can start, Can you get Franz on the wing?
The better the roster, the better to make a trade to upgrade another area.

Same here with Obi and Randle. Personally I think Randle can play some wing if he stays light and the handle a bit tighter. OBI is the anti Randle in that he rarely creates for himself. A lot of his offense is from assists. Not a bad thing, but as a starter you need creation at times. THere is not easy answer here.

fwk00 wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:The likelihood of the knicks and Randle parting ways this offseason seems little. His trade value is at an all time low, his new 4 year extension will kick in next year. The FO will be in a pickle with the Randle situation, trying to increase his trade value means letting him play. The knicks fans saw Obi's final few games and it captivated the fan base. Alot of fans will expect Obi to play 20-25mins or so and with Randle on the roster and Thibs refusing to play small ball, this scenario could be a disaster waiting to happen. The last few games at least for me is the most enjoyable games the knicks play all season. Randle mentally has been struggling, the pressure got to him. Im sure knicks fans wont be shy to boo Randle with every mistake he does specially now the knicks fans can't unsee what Obi might be capable of doing if given a chance to play.

For me there are three major issues the FO needs to address in the offseason.

1. The starting center- i wont Mitch back if not get a young shotblocking rebounding and hopefully a 3point shooting Center.

2. Finally solve the starting point guard question. The FO needs to fully evaluate They have 3 young point guards on their stable: IQ, Deuce and Rokas(in Europe. Is IQ really the starting point guard in 2-3 years time? Are the seeing Rokas joining the team next year and grabbing the starting spot? Or is it Deuce? The 1st need to answer these questions to know what point guard they need. Is it a veteran mentor to groom IQ, is it a short 1year placeholder until Rokas arrives? Or will they outsource the starting PG of the future?

3. They need to have a plan for Randle and let the fans in it. If the plan to build his trade stock, knicks fams should be supportive of it coz booing Randle will only bring out the worse in him.

The knicks wont necessarily need a major facelift, aside from securing the starting Center and PG, they need to build a much better team chemistry. I think the team's young group are solid, as early as now they have been working out. Ironically the FO brought in veterans to bring stability and help show team chemistry but they havent done that this year.

The "pickle" with Randle is this. The *ONLY* way Randle staying a Knick is that Randle plays like an All-Star (more or less). *ANYTHING SHORT OF THAT* is an unmitigated disaster.

Its fine to talk about "building up" his trade value but that pretty much ensures another looooooooooooong losing, no-playoff season and inevitably a mid-season coaching change. It is not hard to imagine the angry mobs that will picket MSG in a NY minute if Randle is retained and Thibs plays him no matter what.

Is there a chance? Well, yes. Let's say Randle stinks out the place and Thibs isn't suicidal. Are the Knicks willing to cut bait on that contract? Playing Obie *could possibly* prevent the Knicks from going down with Randle should he fail but then that's a lost opportunity to have been rid of him this summer in the first place. Sometimes you just have to fold the hand you're playing.

There is a point you insinuate that Obi would be a sort of savior, that his play would supersede Randles by a wide margin.
at 20-10 how bad really was randle this past season? Doing the on paper stat thing not bad. But we know better.
So what is the expectation? Stat wise if he was this guy but with a tad more efficiency and a jollier disposition thats about were he is paid. His ocntract is not one of an allstar. Its for a good starter, a top 50 player. He paid about that. Its not far off the mark.
So in my book he can be less than allstar, and really missing in definition is "winning". Win more, we good.

fwk00 wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:The likelihood of the knicks and Randle parting ways this offseason seems little. His trade value is at an all time low, his new 4 year extension will kick in next year. The FO will be in a pickle with the Randle situation, trying to increase his trade value means letting him play. The knicks fans saw Obi's final few games and it captivated the fan base. Alot of fans will expect Obi to play 20-25mins or so and with Randle on the roster and Thibs refusing to play small ball, this scenario could be a disaster waiting to happen. The last few games at least for me is the most enjoyable games the knicks play all season. Randle mentally has been struggling, the pressure got to him. Im sure knicks fans wont be shy to boo Randle with every mistake he does specially now the knicks fans can't unsee what Obi might be capable of doing if given a chance to play.

For me there are three major issues the FO needs to address in the offseason.

1. The starting center- i wont Mitch back if not get a young shotblocking rebounding and hopefully a 3point shooting Center.

2. Finally solve the starting point guard question. The FO needs to fully evaluate They have 3 young point guards on their stable: IQ, Deuce and Rokas(in Europe. Is IQ really the starting point guard in 2-3 years time? Are the seeing Rokas joining the team next year and grabbing the starting spot? Or is it Deuce? The 1st need to answer these questions to know what point guard they need. Is it a veteran mentor to groom IQ, is it a short 1year placeholder until Rokas arrives? Or will they outsource the starting PG of the future?

3. They need to have a plan for Randle and let the fans in it. If the plan to build his trade stock, knicks fams should be supportive of it coz booing Randle will only bring out the worse in him.

The knicks wont necessarily need a major facelift, aside from securing the starting Center and PG, they need to build a much better team chemistry. I think the team's young group are solid, as early as now they have been working out. Ironically the FO brought in veterans to bring stability and help show team chemistry but they havent done that this year.

The "pickle" with Randle is this. The *ONLY* way Randle staying a Knick is that Randle plays like an All-Star (more or less). *ANYTHING SHORT OF THAT* is an unmitigated disaster.

Its fine to talk about "building up" his trade value but that pretty much ensures another looooooooooooong losing, no-playoff season and inevitably a mid-season coaching change. It is not hard to imagine the angry mobs that will picket MSG in a NY minute if Randle is retained and Thibs plays him no matter what.

Is there a chance? Well, yes. Let's say Randle stinks out the place and Thibs isn't suicidal. Are the Knicks willing to cut bait on that contract? Playing Obie *could possibly* prevent the Knicks from going down with Randle should he fail but then that's a lost opportunity to have been rid of him this summer in the first place. Sometimes you just have to fold the hand you're playing.

I agree with nolad on stat wise, it’s not even close between Obi and Randle who’s a solid 20 and 10. But I agree that the fans can not unsee Obi play towards the end of the season. Did I hear them say Obi scored 30 several games in a row? To end the season? I know with Obi and IQ they have magic together that spreads throughout the team better than any other combination of players on the roster last season. Their chemistry is contagious.

If Randle comes back, it’s going to take 1 or 2 major blowups by Randle before the boo birds come out. So right now the FO is in a tight spot. I say trade him if we plan on bringing back the same team. We not winning anyway with or without him so why not see what Obi and company can do. Or play Randle and Obi which thibs will not do unless….we have to keep three defenders around them and EF isn’t one of them, even though he can shoot his azz off. I don’t know what the stats say, but clearly thibs agrees with me on pairing them together removes rim protection and thibs doesn’t like that.

Maybe all the small ball in the playoffs will rub off on us and look at Randle and Obi again. If it can work on defense, imagine the potential on offense? I’m coming around to this lineup as I’m typing. But again I feel like Randle is on a thin leash. And this is the only way to remove the attention from him cause fans want to see Obi play including me. Otherwise why draft him?

What if by that move the front office can wheel and deal with the kings to package #7 and 11 to move up to 4 and draft Ivey.

Im not sure i think next year Bledsoe's contract wont be fully guaranteed so if they waive him there can be cap space. If the FO continue to be active and deal Noel or Burks or Evan or Kemba(hopefully all four of them) can that create enough cap space to sign Bamba and Lavine? If they let mitch walk.

If they can find a way to flip Randle by starting with trading him for the 7th pick, is that still considered selling Randle low if the final result is Ivey and Lavine?

An offseason haul that gives the knicks a starting line up of:

Mitch or Bamba
Obi
RJ
Lavine
Ivey

I wont say no to that! This can be an ideal offseason. Im even ok to include extra pick for a move to #7 and extra picks to move to #4.
This is a much better haul than last year's offseason of Burks, Noel, Walker and Evan.