Clean wrote:martin wrote:Clean wrote:The funny thing here is the Thibs defenders don't notice the cognitive dissonance in their attempts to defend him at all costs. You say he knows what he is doing in developing youth because he played Quick real NBA minutes through all his slumps. While also defending him not playing Sims, McBride and Grimes until forced to. Yet another argument where you are trying to make it so you can't possibly be wrong since you are taking both sides. I see you.
You just can't play every player all the time Clean and you now this. There are different circumstances and paths each player will take. Lumping everyone into the same black and white bucket of either they are getting minutes or enough minutes or no minutes at all does not mirror reality.
You haven't yet accepted that there are reasonable explanation of things; your definition of development boils down to seeing a player get minutes. It's not, and if you think it is, that's on you. It's an important step certainly but not the only one, and especially so in a team environment.
Quite frankly, you don't see enough IMHO. And you keep cutting yourself off. Your distaste for Thibs overwhelms you and it shows over and over and over again (Nalod and others give you hints at that).
I've offered it to you before but maybe you have missed it: I'll walk you through what I think are some of the other team and player dynamics going on in a back and forth if you are up for it. Let me know.
I did not lump them into anything. This is what Thibs said. The same guy you guys are defending literally said there are only things real NBA minutes can teach a player. If you have a problem with that take he is the guy who made it.
I have no distaste for Thibs. I have a distaste for his inability to adjust. I literally said Thibs deserve credit for Quicks development in the last game thread. I also admitted I was wrong about Quicks ability to learn PG within this season. I am willing to give him credit when he deserves it and I am willing to say I was wrong when I am. What I am not going to do is give you Thibs lovers both sides of the argument every time an issue comes up. You can't have it both ways.
If when the kids played they were clearly not ready Thibs lovers would have claimed he was right all along to not give them time. Now that he was forced to play them they are arguing he is a great developer of young players because they were ready and providing way more wins than the vets did. Sorry but you don't get both sides of the argument.
Thibs himself says you must get real NBA minutes because there are things you can only learn through real NBA time. You love that when it works for Quick. However, you have a problem when I have said the same thing all year about Obi, Sims, mcBride and Grimes. Remember that Woj podcast I posted where the Cavs GM said the same exact thing. His words were you have to give guards a trial by fire. Thibs deserves credit when he gives Quick real NBA minutes and he deserves credit when he keeps them buried on the bench all year. Sorry but you don't get both sides of the argument.
If the vets were playing well I can understand not giving the young guys a chance. The problem comes when the vets boast the worst defending lineup in NBA History. When those vets give you a 3 wins and 17loss record in a 20 game stretch maybe it is time to give someone else a chance. You know what happened when we gave those young guys a chance? We have a record of 10 wins and 6 losses directly after that 20 game span I mentioned previously. This is also with Grimes and McBride gimpy with injuries. You guys can say what you want but I will not be giving you both sides of every argument.
I am asking you if you would like to try to think differently, put yourself into Thibs position and see the types of decisions he and staff have to make and why he perhaps has taken them and see if they are reasonable.
I am not even asking you to agree or disagree with what Thibs has done. I am asking if you are up for a different perspective.
Again, you have painted this as a Thibs lovers v Thibs haters and I don't even care about that. Walk away from that stance and things become a bit clearer. I am seeing if you are up for seeing different. Really understanding what it takes to develop and develop within a team environment - it's the same thing high level organizations do all the time.
You have a knack for taking the literal and trying to apply it everywhere without a nuace for looking at the bigger picture of things. As an example, the quote by Ty Lue about doing anything it takes to win; it's good for a deep playoff team but really doesn't apply to every team and that should be self evident. Another example, even though Thibs say he is all about winning, it's not his absolute priority given the current team he has for this current year - development of that team to get into the position of playoff or deep playoff and THEN your first priority becomes winning at all costs (we should all understand the "Take a step back to be able take 2 steps forward" quote or whatever it is).
If you don't think differently, you sit there and wonder why high level guys like Thibs and Pops and Riley do what they do. They don't all have the same path or thought process, but they have very well thought out intentions. They also **** up like we all do, and they do it a lot. And then they adjust and get better.
If you want to bang your head against a wall and keep asking yourself WHY IS HE DOING THAT and get frustrated by the process, well this convo that I am offering to you may not be for you.
I will keep repeating: Adjust your perspective. I am not here to defend Thibs. I am here to try to suss out what the hell he is trying to do and then perhaps we can make a judgement. All it seems to me is you want to make a judgement. Don't sit there and get frustrated and just wonder WHY cause that's really not good.
4/3/2022 8:37 PM
