martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

martin wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:I think the issue Randle has is just how quickly the fans in New York turn on guys. Other places fans are disinterested but New York fans will jeer the home team. I get why players sour on it.

Julius's assists per game over the past 3 seasons are: 3/6/5~ he's still moving the ball.
In some ways Julius has been more of a leader than Melo was. He might be the biggest leader since Marbury.

Trading Randle would be disastrous for the team's culture and record. If the Knicks can lock up Mitchell, most of the roster is set outside of PG. What can the Knicks expect from Kemba, Rose, And Noel?

If we trade Randle it means we will rebuild so should trade Randle and Fournier to LAL for Westbrook.

Have you played team ball or been part of an organization where leadership is actually a thing?

You are a stat guy and you will need to read and watch beyond raw numbers to get a better understanding of basketball and team performance.

The bold leads me to believe there is a ton of growth and data to human interpretation that needs a ton more experience.

Something happened last season as awesome as Linsanity- out of nowhere Randle became a really good player. We all saw it, the holdover guys had front row seats. Trading Randle for pennies on the dollar would be waving the white flag- why not try to capture that lightning in the bottle again? Better just to keep our expirings and move Randle and Fournier for Westbrook.

I am definitely not suggesting a pennies on dollar trade or to move him in a Westbrook type deal; Knicks need to get some value for him.

But his overall style of play and the literal maintenance needed on his personality is probably exhausting for the team, and his absence would have a positive trickle effect on other players.

Randle is not a ball mover. He is a high usage guy who releases the ball at the very end of an iso play in desperation and the assist he gets are negated by the TO's he also accumulates.

I wonder if a different coach could get through to him. Perhaps that is Woodson?

He's got great skills and abilities. Being able to bully your way to points is worth something. We came up short last year because we didn't have enough weapons. We still don't, but we're close.

I think Thibs and Randle should have dinner together in the off season and try to find a way to meet heart to heart. They are both high driven people. We forget we're dealing with people and personalities- I know I do.

And they both need to take a chill pill! We don't need Randle to play big minutes or score at the same volume. He could easily become our Charles Oakley or Larry Johnson player. Where we have a role, and it's toughness on both sides of the ball. Give me 15 & 10 with energy and strong shooting from 3.

Randle has had his favorite coach in the world on the bench with him for the past 2 years just up until recently.

There is just no doubt in my mind that Thibs and every coach on the staff has told him everything he needs to know - it's the same stuff we fans EASILY see and we don't even review video with Randle on a daily basis. It's obvious.

Randle gotta fix the Randle problems IMHO. Not for nothing, but most of it is mental. Play with effort. Don't do the iso thing. Move the ball, don't hold it. Stop complaining on every play. If you are wide open, shoot; stop it already with the pump and side set while letting the defender get closer to you. Randle is literally making like most every shot he is taking much harder with his moves.

If Randle has blocked out the voices of the coaching staff, it's time to move him.

I think he's most likely to turn it around here next season. All you say is true but frankly this season was cooked when Kemba and Rose were done. Not having Noel didn't help either.

Even next season starting Burks, running Rose and IQ off the bench with Grimes Noel and Cam or Obi makes me think we could be back in the playoffs.

In 2 of 3 seasons Randle has been with the Knicks he has been flat awful. Before that, Lakers and NOP were flat willing to let him walk.

What would leave you to believe he will turn it around?

I hope to not sound like a Randle apologist but Lakers let him walk to open cap space for Lebron. To their credit he was not a surefire lock to extend but by the time he showed well a team that wanted him need only sign him rather than trade. They lost leverage. They got him and eventually AD and a chip.

Nola got god to give them Zion. The season was already done and they let him walk. Did Fizdale and that crap team have any impact?

Question at hand is “Can he return to near all pro form?” I have said many times that might not doable but a better version of this season is. If he can do a 18 and 8 rebs he is not a bad value given his contract.
So I lower the bar on my expectations and the reality of his contract (not PhilC robotic parroting) and I find a decent place for him. He is a 3 option type player who I prefer we do better giving him the ball “down hill” than iso. We all see this. He giving the ball up to IQ many times of late.

if his insolence is predicated on a bruised ego and he needs to move on then I hope his valuation is not hit too bad. If its unrealistic then it will be. Then he is delusional. All we can do is guess until some verification is presented.

foosballnick wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Randle’s contract is hardly outrageous or untradeable. But Knicks fans always want to sell low.

So true. Generally I chalk this up to Knicks fans general histrionics as well as NY Media feeding frenzy. Randle is a decent contract for a 20/10 guy who is extremely durable, talented and strong - especially on the right team where he is paired with a star type player. I was listening to Hahn who suggested that he would be extremely effective on a team like Denver (ie something like Randle for Morris and Gordon). There are trades out there - the FO just has to work to find a partner.

Thats not a bad trade actually if this is to be. He will have to deal with Jokic, Murry, and Porter before his number is called. But he’d be playing with an MVP/future HOF and one of the best passing bigs like ever.
Randle has yet to play on a good team really. Last year had too many anomalies to truly quantify his talent other than his ceiling. He earned a max contract. He did not get it.

In 2 of 3 seasons Randle has been with the Knicks he has been flat awful. Before that, Lakers and NOP were flat willing to let him walk.

What would leave you to believe he will turn it around?

Regression to the mean. I see him shooting 36% from 3 pt range next season.

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Oscar__NBA/status/1509738265628319745

Seen this interesting take on the Randle situation. I have not thought enough about it to say if I agree or not but it is an interesting take.

Uptown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Oscar__NBA/status/1509738265628319745

Seen this interesting take on the Randle situation. I have not thought enough about it to say if I agree or not but it is an interesting take.

I'd be more pissed if I got exposed in the playoffs only to prepare in the off-season and get exposed again the following season. BTW, Evan Fournier is rounding into the movement shooter they envisioned when he signed. Anyway, this isn't much of an excuse for the poor shooting percentages, inconsistent defense and bad turnovers.

It's all about perspective. I'm sure this is pretty close to what Randle is thinking. Regardless of how he feels he is being treated by the media and fans, how does this excuse him from being a ****ty teammate?

1. The Atlanta series. Just because we finished a game ahead of ATL did not mean it was some big upset. That season was full of anomalies and we just as easy could have finished 6th. Knicks played really well down the stretch but so did ATL and Miami. Elf was floundering and we over relied on Drose.
2. Randle was not given the contract he qualified for. It was likley not offered nor did he demand it. He got a good deal based on an incredible season.

I cannot begin to understand what he is thinking and tweet is what a teenager might thing. Might be part true. Also that the chemistry is making him look bad. Or, Thibs agenda to develop the team is not making him look good. Frustrated over fans? Yeah, bad look. For some this is like some personal agenda and "good riddance" like he took someones sister out and treated her as would Triple Threat would have. Granted, if you loved "We here" and he was your guy, did he really offend your good senses personally? My take, it was a bad look but not fatal in my book. If Mook Morris can get us a late 1st (IQ) Randle has shown more to warrant a better price. That said, Im not sold on trading him just yet.

And certainly not for Myles Turner. He has a broken foot and while I like his game not for what he might cost. Indy might have asked for two 1st round picks but that is not happening.

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Clean wrote:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Oscar__NBA/status/1509738265628319745

Seen this interesting take on the Randle situation. I have not thought enough about it to say if I agree or not but it is an interesting take.

I'd be more pissed if I got exposed in the playoffs only to prepare in the off-season and get exposed again the following season. BTW, Evan Fournier is rounding into the movement shooter they envisioned when he signed. Anyway, this isn't much of an excuse for the poor shooting percentages, inconsistent defense and bad turnovers.

It's all about perspective. I'm sure this is pretty close to what Randle is thinking. Regardless of how he feels he is being treated by the media and fans, how does this excuse him from being a ****ty teammate?

who said he's been a ****ty teammate? That's your take but has anything come out supporting that?

I am not defending Randle but there's a lot of agenda projecting that goes on once a guy is sour. I mean do we know what was or wasnt asked of Randle?

Some uncomfortable truths:
Randle was just given a big contract
Randle was our best player by a lot last year, and even with his **** play was this year also (see record)

The above tweet is just one of many reasons Thibs can NOT jerk Randle's minutes around. Thibs only course of action is to run him out there and get him right. Benching him for Obi is NOT going to improve the team fabric. They need to get him right or move him. That's how the league works.

Seems like the best scenario to me is getting a pick from Portland in a Bledsoe/Randle trade.

So, throwing your ball over the fence and angrily storming home ( to the locker room) as if you lost, while every single one of your teammates is celebrating a Victory, is being a good teammate?

Telling the Knicks Fans to Shut the F*** up, then boycotting the media because you don't like what's being said about you, leaving a 21-year-old to answer questions about why the leader of this team ain't talking. Is that being a good leader?

Racking up close to 140,000 in fines, fighting with opponents, refs, violently shoving teammates out of the way, compromising your coach who has to answer accountability questions about you. The same coach who throughout the season is trying to defend you, but while doing so, is inadvertently throwing his teammates under the bus, basically calling Obi a back-up QB. Good teammate?

There are reports that he isolates himself from the team in the locker room on numerous occasions. On the road, every single member of the team participates in the pre-game starting line-up intros and huddles together for pre-game rituals while the good teammate hangs out in the back, in isolation.

There were also reports that when Kemba was benched the first time, members of the team were questioning how a the good teammate was being held to a different standard. Just because all the **** he has stirred up hasn't caused a deep rift within the team doesn't mean he hasn't been a ****ty teammate this year.

KnickDanger wrote:Saw this on another board:

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1511333835513888770

Begley saying there were teams interested in Randle at the trade deadline, seeing him as a contributor in a somewhat different role than on the Knicks. Also makes clear his contract isn't a bad one, particularly as the cap rises over the next few years.

It's a very good point. Also should be applied to both RJ and Mitch when their contracts come up.

The Knicks (assistant) coach Thibs made a fool out of himself throughout the Knicks 2021-22 season.
Plus the 2nd season of coach Thibs, and the Knicks are still without an Identity!
Thibs need to be replace asap .. Hire Atkinson or someone !!!