Marv wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Amare Mom was going to jail and his family life was turbulent. He dropped in the draft.
Somtimes this all works out great and he was ROY and a great pick at the 9th spot.
NBA draft as we know is far from a perfect science! Read his Wiki early life story and its easy to see why he was a risky pick. He also had no played a lot of ball.
Some kids defy the odds. Most go with the odds. The odds are talent alone does not predict the outcome.
No team should be applauded or lauded for picks until they they are proven either way. Summer league is not enough. It just demonstrates proficiency or lack of within a subset of players that the youngest of players, recent draftees, and young free agents hoping to land a spot.

We coulda drafted an 18 year old Amare AND kept Marcus Camby

Thanks Layden

Uggh, have I taught you nothing? Neophyte GM dictates hundred million dollar decisions or the Starphucher owner who no matter who the GM, will do this until he pays Phil?
You also forget what a basket case Camby was at that time.

but u forget what a whitebread milquetoast utah-bred bastion of mediocrity layden was. couldn’t wait till that cracker exited.

I will never forget trading away Spree for KVG (Utah product) who we traded away for Tim Thomas who we then traded away and got back for nothing. Net: trade Spree for nothing.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Amare Mom was going to jail and his family life was turbulent. He dropped in the draft.
Somtimes this all works out great and he was ROY and a great pick at the 9th spot.
NBA draft as we know is far from a perfect science! Read his Wiki early life story and its easy to see why he was a risky pick. He also had no played a lot of ball.
Some kids defy the odds. Most go with the odds. The odds are talent alone does not predict the outcome.
No team should be applauded or lauded for picks until they they are proven either way. Summer league is not enough. It just demonstrates proficiency or lack of within a subset of players that the youngest of players, recent draftees, and young free agents hoping to land a spot.

We coulda drafted an 18 year old Amare AND kept Marcus Camby

Thanks Layden

Uggh, have I taught you nothing? Neophyte GM dictates hundred million dollar decisions or the Starphucher owner who no matter who the GM, will do this until he pays Phil?
You also forget what a basket case Camby was at that time.

Ernie Grunfeld working for the same owner just a couple years earlier had no problem building a NBA Finals roster

BL: Layden was and still is an idiot — have you ever heard the guy talk?

Nalod wrote:

Kemet wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:6’7 RJ Barrett perhaps?
6’9 Randle? He really plays a lot o wing like minutes?

Maybe its not so much that Randle might not have elite defense on the parimeter but then seems most wings won’t be able to guard him. I can’t tell you the next 2 years either.

RJ and Randle's presence shouldn't prevent us from from taking the best player on the board. You can never have enough elite wings on the roster. In Johnson, we add a a player allstar potential, that we will control for the next 4-5 years? Talent like that is rarely available outside of the lottery.

There are a lot more things to consider outside of just raw, potential talent?

Bro quit on his team, was ineligible his last year in HS, and when did did play at Duke they weren't even ranked in top 25 and barely suffered after he left?

Meanwhile guy like Grimes leads his team to a final four appearance.

The Knicks all but told us that they HEAVILY consider things like character, readiness, proven track record regarding their selections. That's their MO.

Why do you think they would make a heavy exception for him?

Did Mitch quit on his team?

Johnson opted out during a global pandemic. He did what was best for himself and his health. He didn't owe Duke anything.

Point is, Knicks did their scouting and they decided they liked Grimes more. 18 other teams graded JJ and they passed. Did the Knicks and those other teams mess up? Maybe, it happens. Is summer league to soon to die on this hill? Heck yeah. Why not wait until half of a season to make this a thing. That would still be too early, but at least you'd have a few games of actual game play to go on.

Why did the Knicks FO (Perry) select a SG (Grimes) with the Knicks first pick in the draft?
Wasn't the Knicks biggest weakness (after D.Rose arrive) the SF position? Bullock did a well job, but we got nothing from Knox as a backup SF in the rotation, we had to use Burks, which gave us a 3-Guard lineup in the 2nd unit. Having Knox tier-3 inconsistent performance, plus losing Bullock to the FA market ..
The Knicks first priority in the 2021 draft class were to select the best SF available. really made
The 2021 NBA draft were strong at having 11 decent NBA-ready SF & Point-Forward players.
The Knicks first selection with the 19th pick in the 2021 draft class were to select a Knicks team priority Jalen Johnson, and forget the Dukes incident because of Covid-19 !!!

To give the Knicks the strength they need at the forward position in the 2021-22 NBA season, the Knicks should've been ready to select one out of the 11 potential SF names below if available at the 19th pick.

1) Cunningham
2) Green
3) Barnes
4) Kuminga
5) Jalen Johnson
6) Wagner
7) Bouknight
8) Duarte
9) Kispert
10) Murphy
11) Giddey

Thats your list. Its not how 18 NBA guys that actually scouted him or had research on him made their picks.
Granted, your assuming Jalen Johnson turns into a really good player. Thats your opinion and given his limited resume that is not easy to back up.
Knicks obviously felt for many reasons they did not want to bring in 4 picks this year. A year ago we laughed at ATL picks. Now we don’t. Winning makes it legit. We got legit too last year. Our wings:

RJ
Burks
Fournier
Grimes

Knicks are not interested in picking Jalen and developing him over time. ATL, thats their business. Perhaps they trade Cam Redish and keep moving. Perhaps Jalen gets Gleague’d or never off the bench. We don’t know.
I dont’ follow ATL or any other team that close. But I won’t say becuase ATL took him we made a mistake. Now when I can’t implicitly what our goal was, or ATL.
Your logic is not off base. Take the best player possible and see what becomes. In this case we had two picks at 19 and 21. We had our agenda/goals and ATL has theirs.

At the 20th pick in the 2021 Draft Class the Atlanta Hawks picked the best available player .. Jalen Johnson!
A 2-Way athletic player the Knicks NEEDED to forefill a weak position that's been abandon by Bullocks.
Knicks Fans would've been happy with Bullock & Jalen Johnson at SF in the upcoming season rotation.
The Knicks first two picks in the 2021 Draft Class ....

19. Knicks draft Kai Jones (officially traded to Hornets)
21. Knicks draft Keon Johnson (officially traded to Clippers)

BigDaddyG wrote:

Kemet wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Kemet wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:6’7 RJ Barrett perhaps?
6’9 Randle? He really plays a lot o wing like minutes?

Maybe its not so much that Randle might not have elite defense on the parimeter but then seems most wings won’t be able to guard him. I can’t tell you the next 2 years either.

RJ and Randle's presence shouldn't prevent us from from taking the best player on the board. You can never have enough elite wings on the roster. In Johnson, we add a a player allstar potential, that we will control for the next 4-5 years? Talent like that is rarely available outside of the lottery.

There are a lot more things to consider outside of just raw, potential talent?

Bro quit on his team, was ineligible his last year in HS, and when did did play at Duke they weren't even ranked in top 25 and barely suffered after he left?

Meanwhile guy like Grimes leads his team to a final four appearance.

The Knicks all but told us that they HEAVILY consider things like character, readiness, proven track record regarding their selections. That's their MO.

Why do you think they would make a heavy exception for him?

Did Mitch quit on his team?

Johnson opted out during a global pandemic. He did what was best for himself and his health. He didn't owe Duke anything.

Point is, Knicks did their scouting and they decided they liked Grimes more. 18 other teams graded JJ and they passed. Did the Knicks and those other teams mess up? Maybe, it happens. Is summer league to soon to die on this hill? Heck yeah. Why not wait until half of a season to make this a thing. That would still be too early, but at least you'd have a few games of actual game play to go on.

Why did the Knicks FO (Perry) select a SG (Grimes) with the Knicks first pick in the draft?
Wasn't the Knicks biggest weakness (after D.Rose arrive) the SF position? Bullock did a well job, but we got nothing from Knox as a backup SF in the rotation, we had to use Burks, which gave us a 3-Guard lineup in the 2nd unit. Having Knox tier-3 inconsistent performance, plus losing Bullock to the FA market ..
The Knicks first priority in the 2021 draft class were to select the best SF available. really made
The 2021 NBA draft were strong at having 11 decent NBA-ready SF & Point-Forward players.
The Knicks first selection with the 19th pick in the 2021 draft class were to select a Knicks team priority Jalen Johnson, and forget the Dukes incident because of Covid-19 !!!

To give the Knicks the strength they need at the forward position in the 2021-22 NBA season, the Knicks should've been ready to select one out of the 11 potential SF names below if available at the 19th pick.

1) Cunningham
2) Green
3) Barnes
4) Kuminga
5) Jalen Johnson
6) Wagner
7) Bouknight
8) Duarte
9) Kispert
10) Murphy
11) Giddey

Thats your list. Its not how 18 NBA guys that actually scouted him or had research on him made their picks.
Granted, your assuming Jalen Johnson turns into a really good player. Thats your opinion and given his limited resume that is not easy to back up.
Knicks obviously felt for many reasons they did not want to bring in 4 picks this year. A year ago we laughed at ATL picks. Now we don’t. Winning makes it legit. We got legit too last year. Our wings:

RJ
Burks
Fournier
Grimes

Knicks are not interested in picking Jalen and developing him over time. ATL, thats their business. Perhaps they trade Cam Redish and keep moving. Perhaps Jalen gets Gleague’d or never off the bench. We don’t know.
I dont’ follow ATL or any other team that close. But I won’t say becuase ATL took him we made a mistake. Now when I can’t implicitly what our goal was, or ATL.
Your logic is not off base. Take the best player possible and see what becomes. In this case we had two picks at 19 and 21. We had our agenda/goals and ATL has theirs.

At the 20th pick in the 2021 Draft Class the Atlanta Hawks picked the best available player .. Jalen Johnson!
A 2-Way athletic player the Knicks NEEDED to forefill a weak position that's been abandon by Bullocks.
Knicks Fans would've been happy with Bullock & Jalen Johnson at SF in the upcoming season rotation.
The Knicks first two picks in the 2021 Draft Class ....

19. Knicks draft Kai Jones (officially traded to Hornets)
21. Knicks draft Keon Johnson (officially traded to Clippers)

The Knicks signed a wing during free agency and drafted one. By many accounts, most scouts saw Johnson as a PF, especially defensively. Go on Atlanta Hawks boards a many posters saw Johnson as a future replacement for Collins. If you're saying Johnson was Obi's replacement, I wouldn't disagree as much. But Grimes is a better defender at the wing. The Knicks came away with an extra first, Grimes, McBride and Sims. I think most fans, me included, are happy with that haul. That could change if Johnson blows up, but he hasn't even played a game yet.

Probably the New NBA looked at Skinny Jalen Johnson as a PF, but all us Magic/Bird NBA fans seen Jalen Johnson quick athletic hops as the next Pippin.
Grimes last 3 SL games performance prove he may turn out to be a much better consistent 2-Way big-guard than RJ Barrett.
The Knicks last best SF were 6.8 Marcus Morris Sr. whom they traded to the Clippers 2 season ago on the trade deadline, the Clippers using Morris at the PF position in the playoff, after losing the bulky 6.7 PF Montrezl Harrell to the FA market did'nt help the Clipper get pass the Phoenix Suns in the (WCF) playoffs.

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:Barrett inside ability to get to the rim in my opinion puts him at the 3. His perimeter shooting really took off in the second half last year (be nice to see 10 game samples vs whole season stats) but his inside prowess to penetrate at the 2 is not as effective. With his outside game improve it gets easier to get to the rim.
We talk about Bullock gone and Fornier in but is Evan the 3 or the 2?

Johnson taken at 19 likely says that teams see him as inexperienced needing time. If his character has diva qualities then he is not a top prospect. How do I know? 19th pick tells me this. Knicks have Knox for now. Do you keep two at the same time?
would this FO have taken knox knowing he was “low motor and super young”?
Kenny Payne might have all the answers to his outlook given he had him right out of high school. I know what the media answer is. We’ll find out if any of it plays out this season.

The Hawks have Huerter, Bogdon, Cam Reddish and Hunter on the wing, but that didn't stop them from taking Johnson @20, right after we moved our pick. The Hawks have really good management and have done a really good job of rebuilding that team. The Hawks took the best player on the board, regardless of position.

Yes. The team that collected all those players was laughed at before the season for doing all that and Signing Gallo. Then a nice season and ending and now we valid the pick because?
Look, that's working for them and Im not saying its wrong. Time will prove it. Teams should keep doing their thing. WE did ours and felt confident. ATL now has room to do what they did.
ATL was laughed at for doing the Trae/Redish swap for Doncic. Maybe Reddish does not pan out but Johnson does? Its a process.
ATL looks prime to make a trade actually. Also part of a process. You can't use all that Depth effectively. OKC can't draft all the picks they have. At some point you cash in or keep kicking the can down the road.
We got RJ and wanted vets behind him. Did not want or see three rooks rostered? I really don't disagree with taking him as an asset, but at the same time just because ATL did it, does not mean it was right for us.

Maybe we ****ed up. Maybe that pick we moved to charlotte is the difference in a trade down the road? We won’t really know.

KnickDanger wrote:"The next Pippen." Geezuz....

Or next Oscar Robertson based on 4 exhibition games

Uptown wrote:

wargames wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Nalod wrote:Barrett inside ability to get to the rim in my opinion puts him at the 3. His perimeter shooting really took off in the second half last year (be nice to see 10 game samples vs whole season stats) but his inside prowess to penetrate at the 2 is not as effective. With his outside game improve it gets easier to get to the rim.
We talk about Bullock gone and Fornier in but is Evan the 3 or the 2?

Johnson taken at 19 likely says that teams see him as inexperienced needing time. If his character has diva qualities then he is not a top prospect. How do I know? 19th pick tells me this. Knicks have Knox for now. Do you keep two at the same time?
would this FO have taken knox knowing he was “low motor and super young”?
Kenny Payne might have all the answers to his outlook given he had him right out of high school. I know what the media answer is. We’ll find out if any of it plays out this season.

The Hawks have Huerter, Bogdon, Cam Reddish and Hunter on the wing, but that didn't stop them from taking Johnson @20, right after we moved our pick. The Hawks have really good management and have done a really good job of rebuilding that team. The Hawks took the best player on the board, regardless of position.

Because Johnson is a PF. They didn’t know if Collins was coming back and at PG they have Gallo a tweener forward and Okongwu who got limited minutes as a rookie. Maybe Jalen Johnson is a tweener forward too but he ironically enough plays a lot like James Johnson a good yet flawed bench PF. All of the SF’s were more or less gone by 19.

Maybe we’ll grab or trade for another SF. Maybe the combination of Fournier and RJ is enough. I really think this obsession with a PF because he might (though very unlikely) develop into a SF is a exercise in futility. Especially now in the wedge time betweeen summer league and preseason.

Even if Johnson projects as a PF, Hawks selected Okongwu who is a PF with a lotto pick the year before. So they picked a PF in back to back years. My point is, the Hawks grabbed the best player on the board, regardless of position. Not sure where you are getting obsession from me, just making conversation. We had 3 picks, and thought we could have used one of them to take a homerun swing at Johnson. The way the the draft shook-out, we could have walked away with Johnson, Grimes and McBride.

With that said, of course there is a chance that Johnson is a tweener and ends up being journeyman. That may be unforgivable in the top 8, but not so much @ 19 especially when you have 3 picks.