Nalod wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Welpee wrote:martin wrote:fitzfarm wrote:Papabear wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:ramtour420 wrote:fitzfarm wrote:I think randle is in the best shape of his life and it’s showing...also I think we finally have a great coaching staff that puts players in there comfort zones for success.No way should we trade randle if he keeps playing this good, he’s playing like a super star something we’ve been needing for years
If he keeps up this level of play he is worth way more than a FRP. This year he is said to display leadership qualities and that's worth more to this team than another FRP
Randle is a 20-10 guy and maybe the best player on a miserable team. But I do not see him as a transformational superstar of a Karl Malone or Charles Barkley caliber. His absolute ceiling is a Kevin Love. And Love still needs LeBron to win a championship. Whereas LeBron does not need Love to win a championship.
I see any one of the Cade-Suggs-Mobley trio as a transformational superstar, so I think anything that increases our chances of getting one of them must be done. Marcus Morris is also an awesome player, but we did well by trading him for a late first rounder.
Papabear SaysSure they win championships with LeBron but in the books they need to put an asterisk next to the team because when a group of superstars all make a plan to play on the same team just to win a championship should be illegal.
+1k LBJ screwed the nba with stars wanting to team up never happened before because everyone wanted to be the best not join the best...
It’s gotta burn LBJ that he couldn’t do it on his own
? He carried that CLE team
Yeah, but Lebron doesn't even come to Cleveland without Kyrie (22 year old, two time all-star) already being there and knowing they would flip that #1 pick (Wiggins) for a guy who was 2nd team all-NBA who just posted 26.1 ppg, 12.5 rebs, 4.4 assists (Kevin Love).
Exactly, he failed his first time in cle on his own and only went back knowing Kyrie and love were there waiting . Another super team. Then goes to LA and can’t even make the playoffs in his first year then wins a chip with arguably the best player on earth right now in AD the next.
LBJ has never been able to carry a team like Jordan. He shouldn’t even be in the conversation of who’s best. You might be able to argue he’s as good as magic but Jordan is at a whole different level of talent then the rest and it’s not even close
And there in lies the truth. I’ll make it easier for you to digest.
Lebron been to 10 finals. Jordan not.
Bill Russell won 11 rings in 13 years.
Jabbar got 5. Alltime leading scorer.
Lebron has 4 chips. No asterisks. These are different eras. Hard to keep a team together than back in the day.
If Lebron gets to 5, and exceeds Kareem there gets to be a different narrative.
Lebron went to a laker team that did not make the playoffs his first year. AD was traded for.
Gotta give credit due.
Jordan is a the best player ever. Russell is the chip leader. Jordan had a great HOF side kick in his 6 chip run and what turned to be a genius coach. Lebron has won with three different coaches.
Jordan had HOF Dennis Rodman for 3. Horace Grant was underrated.
Lebron vs Jordan? Jordan is the GOAT but Lebron might have had a better career. He played longer matter? Yes, it is an achievement not just physical, but mental fortitude. Trips to finals are to be applauded. one can say “Jordan only went to 6 finals?” Jordan succeeded in an era diluted of expansion? I have read this. Hand checking? Big men Era? Its all impressionable and debatable.
Lebrons success does not tarnish Jordans achievements.
I would counter with the following:
1)Lebron reportedly had been in contact with AD for a while before the trade happened. So we can't pretend Lebron wasn't working on AD to make that trade happen. No way the Lakers woke up one morning and discovered AD was available.
2)Lebron won three of his four rings playing along side two future hall of famers in their prime (Bosh and Wade in Miami, Irving and Love in Cleveland). Jordan won three of his rings with only one in his prime HOFer (Pippen). And Rodman was great, but he was a wild card and you never knew what you would get from him from day to day (remember when he needed to take a "vacation" in the middle of the season).
3)If you reference the "diluted league" argument with Jordan, then isn't the league even more diluted in Lebron's era?
4)Regarding Lebron having the better career (keeping in mind Lebron is still going):
League MVPs: Jordan 5, Lebron 4
Finals MVPs: Jordan 6, Lebron 4
Led league in scoring: Jordan 10, Lebron 1
Defensive POY: Jordan 1, Lebron 0
All-defense: Jordan 9, Lebron 6
Assist leader: Jordan 0, Lebron 1
All-NBA: Jordan 11, Lebron 16
Rookie of the year: Jordan 1, Lebron 1
Rings: Jordan 6, Lebron 4
Lebron has certainly been great for longer than Jordan. Not sure I would concede he had the better career. I think Jordan did more in fewer years. Hand checking wasn't banned until 1994 so Jordan won three of his rings during the hand checking era. The bigs when Jordan played were much better and more physical than the so-called bigs in the modern era. And when you consider the biggest weakness in Lebron's game is his jump shot, you don't think he greatly benefitted from the freedom to get in the paint unimpeded and with lesser caliber bigs waiting for him once he got in the paint?
Injecting era is tricky because the game constantly changes. Players before Jordan had challenges to deal with that both Jordan and Lebron never faced. So while it's valid, it's probably best to not deal with it. Makes the debate way too complicated.
Sorry for going on a tangent.
12/30/2020 3:06 PM