BRIGGS wrote:I think the bottom line is that I personally feel Wiseman will be an nba franchise player. You win in the nba w franchise players. Just because we have Robinson won’t change my thinking. I always think what will win big. A franchise big player sets the foundation for 10-13 years. He’s got every physical measurable. He’s a hard worker. He’s a smart kid. Every team needs 2-3 big players surrounded by perimeter players. But the big thing for me is Wiseman is a franchise type player and the other guys are very good to good nba players.

I think those are his biggest question marks.

BRIGGS wrote:I think the bottom line is that I personally feel Wiseman will be an nba franchise player. You win in the nba w franchise players. Just because we have Robinson won’t change my thinking. I always think what will win big. A franchise big player sets the foundation for 10-13 years. He’s got every physical measurable. He’s a hard worker. He’s a smart kid. Every team needs 2-3 big players surrounded by perimeter players. But the big thing for me is Wiseman is a franchise type player and the other guys are very good to good nba players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWgyy_rlmag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzin1DgexlE

Briggs, I have a lot of love in my heart for you. You are probably the most passionate person about the Knicks here. But you tend to suffer from recency bias and overvaluing counting stats. It's why you thought paying Enes Kanter 4/64 would be a good decision.

Why do small ball lineups, using jumbo wings as pivots, work?

1) It improves your floor spacing naturally

2) It dramatically improves your turnover differential compared to using a traditional pivot or even a classic Stretch 5

3) It offers you, on the average, better free throw shooting, which is paramount since Small Ball lineups tend to be more prevalent late game and in the playoffs when rotations are shortened.

4) It gives you a better opportunity to hide poor defenders on your rotation.

5) It gives you a natural pathway to control game pace and game flow

6) There are only going to be 4-5 traditional pivots in the entire league who can punish you for using a small ball lineup

Does it have limitations? Yes, because it's essentially a "Burst Concept", the level of attrition it creates makes it non viable for full time use. Which is why progressive teams are signing Tier 4 and Tier 5 traditional pivots to basically batter down other teams so using small ball in specific matchups in bursts can be more effective.

Progressive teams (Houston, Boston, etc) and the elite coaches (Spo, Kerr, etc) in the league are using/did use small ball lineups when games hit critical junctures. Even if you don't like it, you have no choice but to match up against league trends. Popovich didn't like the barrage of three point shots that other teams were firing up, but his teams had to adjust and follow suit because the rest of the league was doing it and he had no way to counter it.

The 76ers are paying Al Horford 4 years/109 million. The Celtics are paying Daniel Theis 2 years/10 million, after extracting the value of his first two years for a little over 2 million dollars total. Boston saw what they got for the 83 million they paid Horford and decided it was simply better to save the money to pay for Kemba Walker and reup Brown and Tatum. Houston is using PJ Tucker. Spolestra uses Bam Adebayo.

Can you buck league trends and thrive? Russell Westbrook is about as Anti-Morey ball as a player can come. He is a **** defender and he has no long range shooting. But to make it work, the Rockets have to surround him with four legit shooters and RWB only manages because he's a generational athlete. If you want an exception to the rule, you need one bad mother****er and James Wiseman doesn't fit that bill.

It comes down to this - How far away from Joel Embiid is James Wiseman? The further away he is from that baseline, the more of a risk he presents.

Wiseman is only a value if he drops, and if the Knicks are in that position, Wiseman is not such an overwhelming prospect where ignoring positional value (wings) is going to be the best market based decision.

Right now you are the old guy at the table shouting good body and Fabio is the shortstop from Seattle. Be more progressive than that.

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think the bottom line is that I personally feel Wiseman will be an nba franchise player. You win in the nba w franchise players. Just because we have Robinson won’t change my thinking. I always think what will win big. A franchise big player sets the foundation for 10-13 years. He’s got every physical measurable. He’s a hard worker. He’s a smart kid. Every team needs 2-3 big players surrounded by perimeter players. But the big thing for me is Wiseman is a franchise type player and the other guys are very good to good nba players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWgyy_rlmag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzin1DgexlE

Briggs, I have a lot of love in my heart for you. You are probably the most passionate person about the Knicks here. But you tend to suffer from recency bias and overvaluing counting stats. It's why you thought paying Enes Kanter 4/64 would be a good decision.

Why do small ball lineups, using jumbo wings as pivots, work?

1) It improves your floor spacing naturally

2) It dramatically improves your turnover differential compared to using a traditional pivot or even a classic Stretch 5

3) It offers you, on the average, better free throw shooting, which is paramount since Small Ball lineups tend to be more prevalent late game and in the playoffs when rotations are shortened.

4) It gives you a better opportunity to hide poor defenders on your rotation.

5) It gives you a natural pathway to control game pace and game flow

6) There are only going to be 4-5 traditional pivots in the entire league who can punish you for using a small ball lineup

Does it have limitations? Yes, because it's essentially a "Burst Concept", the level of attrition it creates makes it non viable for full time use. Which is why progressive teams are signing Tier 4 and Tier 5 traditional pivots to basically batter down other teams so using small ball in specific matchups in bursts can be more effective.

Progressive teams (Houston, Boston, etc) and the elite coaches (Spo, Kerr, etc) in the league are using/did use small ball lineups when games hit critical junctures. Even if you don't like it, you have no choice but to match up against league trends. Popovich didn't like the barrage of three point shots that other teams were firing up, but his teams had to adjust and follow suit because the rest of the league was doing it and he had no way to counter it.

The 76ers are paying Al Horford 4 years/109 million. The Celtics are paying Daniel Theis 2 years/10 million, after extracting the value of his first two years for a little over 2 million dollars total. Boston saw what they got for the 83 million they paid Horford and decided it was simply better to save the money to pay for Kemba Walker and reup Brown and Tatum. Houston is using PJ Tucker. Spolestra uses Bam Adebayo.

Can you buck league trends and thrive? Russell Westbrook is about as Anti-Morey ball as a player can come. He is a **** defender and he has no long range shooting. But to make it work, the Rockets have to surround him with four legit shooters and RWB only manages because he's a generational athlete. If you want an exception to the rule, you need one bad mother****er and James Wiseman doesn't fit that bill.

It comes down to this - How far away from Joel Embiid is James Wiseman? The further away he is from that baseline, the more of a risk he presents.

Wiseman is only a value if he drops, and if the Knicks are in that position, Wiseman is not such an overwhelming prospect where ignoring positional value (wings) is going to be the best market based decision.

Right now you are the old guy at the table shouting good body and Fabio is the shortstop from Seattle. Be more progressive than that.

I think Aaron Nesmith reminds me of Glen Rice and I would consider that the number 2 prospect for the draft despite being mocked in n the lower lottery. There are other good players. ball Halliburton probably my two picks 3-4 after wiseman Nesmith. Those are my personal tier one players but that’s a 1a1b scenario abd only wiseman is 1a

martin wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

martin wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I think the bottom line is that I personally feel Wiseman will be an nba franchise player. You win in the nba w franchise players. Just because we have Robinson won’t change my thinking. I always think what will win big. A franchise big player sets the foundation for 10-13 years. He’s got every physical measurable. He’s a hard worker. He’s a smart kid. Every team needs 2-3 big players surrounded by perimeter players. But the big thing for me is Wiseman is a franchise type player and the other guys are very good to good nba players.

I think those are his biggest question marks.

I think I read he was a top student in his class abd speaks fluent Mandarin Chinese. I would call that pretty smart.
Also I’ve followed him— he’s worked almost every day training for the nba since removal from Memphis— going from 235-254Pd

How does that have anything to do with BBIQ?

Well usually someone says smart it’s about their individual intelligence? But basketball iq? Where is one sign that it’s poor?

That’s his first game. I see a array of understanding of basketball and hustle. Understanding pick and roll positioning yourself helping on d leading the break good shooting form.
If someone takes a second to think
Wouod I rather have 6-5 Halliburton who will be a good nba player— not great
Or would I rather swing for the fences at 7-1 255 I’m swinging The Knicks have been pretty weak drafters over the years If and again it’s big If. If we have a chance to get. YOU pick him!

BRIGGS wrote:

That’s his first game. I see a array of understanding of basketball and hustle. Understanding pick and roll positioning yourself helping on d leading the break good shooting form.
If someone takes a second to think
Wouod I rather have 6-5 Halliburton who will be a good nba player— not great
Or would I rather swing for the fences at 7-1 255 I’m swinging The Knicks have been pretty weak drafters over the years If and again it’s big If. If we have a chance to get. YOU pick him!

Unfortunately, neither Wiseman or Nesmith played a complete season. Neither one of them got a chance to compete against elite competition last season (although Nesmith did play Auburn before he was injured). Would have liked to see both play conference games where you have to play each team twice, and are better scouted and are forced to adjust to a different game plan the second time around especially in Wiseman's case. I think Triple nailed it when he said, Wiseman's value goes up the longer he remains on the board. If he's there @ 6 or 7 then you grab him without a second thought. At some point, a decision would have to be made between Robinson and Wiseman. Might not be smart business to max out two bigs.

I knew/ know videos like this would start coming out. This guy is no regular joe. This is a7-1 250 pound agile athletic player who can move 5-4 that can handle jump pass and really shoot it. Really no one here has taken the tine to really see what this kid is it will become. Tgis is a Kevin Garnett/ David Robinson type clone. There is no other player I look at abd say I’m feeling this good about that guy. I have one more video that will show more.

BRIGGS wrote:

I knew/ know videos like this would start coming out. This guy is no regular joe. This is a7-1 250 pound agile athletic player who can move 5-4 that can handle jump pass and really shoot it. Really no one here has taken the tine to really see what this kid is it will become. Tgis is a Kevin Garnett/ David Robinson type clone. There is no other player I look at abd say I’m feeling this good about that guy. I have one more video that will show more.

Really don't see us landing a top 4 pick, plus when it comes to trading up, Twolves are well placed to out bid us- their pick (likely higher than ours) plus the Nets (16th or 17th) would be very tempting for any team in the top 3.

What sense would it make to have two canters that can't shoot perimeter shots unless the plan on trading mitch, i see no difference in their style of play.

knicks1248 wrote:with more than half the league playing small ball and switching on defense, it would be so easy to get a mismatch.

What sense would it make to have two canters that can't shoot perimeter shots unless the plan on trading mitch, i see no difference in their style of play.

I haven’t seen where M Robinson has shown he’s a center piece player. If we don’t get Wiseman I’d go after Christian Woods. If we get Wiseman I’m gonna sift my spending assets to shooters. The reason why I made this thread is I think Wiseman is a franchise type player. You win w franchise players. Good players are nice to surround them with