martin wrote:The culture just switched to cow towing to players instead of player/team development

Pretty much....Lue or Mark Jackson will take over next year...

Back in December, Brooklyn Nets coach Kenny Atkinson shared some pretty prescient thoughts for a guy who had recently landed Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving on his roster. “I know my time is ticking,” he said after becoming the longest-tenured major professional league coach in the New York metro area. “It puts me on edge. Tough business, tough town, expectations have been raised. So I know my time will eventually come. Just do the best I can until that happens.”

This reminds me of MDA when we traded for Melo....When we had Amare, Gallo, Chandler, Ray, etc it was very close an equal opportunity offense. Of course Amare was the clear #1 option , but on any night it wasn't unusual for Landry Fields to be the second leading scorer. Once we traded for Melo, it was easy to see the writing on the wall for MDA and you could tell he wasn't a fan of coaching Melo

Same with Atkinson. Just reading what Atkins said back in December, he seemed to enjoy the equal opportunity offense. Adding Kyrie and KD added unwanted pressure to Atkinson, and he probably knew that some of his coaching principles and philosophy would be challenged. He's stubborn, but most successful coaches and athletes are...He wants to win his way and trust his philosophy so I'm sure if he were to take this job, it's pretty easy to determine what direction the Knicks are headed.

martin wrote:The culture just switched to cow towing to players instead of player/team development

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:The culture just switched to cow towing to players instead of player/team development

This. KD/Kyrie has a good shot at being worse then Pierce/KG.

The history shows that teams can be build around stars to get a chip or two.
KD/Kyrie will not be enough. They need 3rd star and a bunch of role players (which they kind of have).
But to build a sustainable success to field winning team for many years not talking about dynasty is another story.
The Nets project is one and done attempt and probability to make it all the way to the chip is small.
I am glad we have no way to do this kind of stuff in NY any more. In fact we can build something special given 5-6 years of time.
The problem is to have a strong desire on overcome the impatience on NY fans and Dolan.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Chandler wrote:Nice option. But let’s not pretend he’s budenholzer

I would like a gm and team identity first though

The work Bud did with Tim & Prince made him a stud in my eyes as that's harder to do than take over good teams. But at the same time could be comparable to KAs work with Deangelo, Dinwiddie & Levert. Bud had more to work with in ATL and Milwaukee if comparing records though.

I would add Harris to guys Atkinson helped fix. Also, his players love him and he is known for working guys really hard.

good points

Up here in Boston, the Celtics announcers/color guys used to say good coaches can develop players or win; great coaches do both

Can Kenny win -- as in win big?

He very well may be the best candidate for us at this point. I certainly like him better than Thibs, JVG, Mark Jackson and some of the other retreads

I still think we need to have a gm and identity first. Kenny's identity (last season pre-KI) seemed to be race up the court and take the first open shot -- playing the odds. Is that what we want? Personally i think that style plays better in the regular season than in the playoffs. And not sure it plays well to our youth core FWIW. I'd like a team with good court balance between O and D and that has enough versatility on offense that they can score deep, midrange and down low

p.s.,
Kenny got hosed but this is probably a blessing in disguise

As i mentioend before FA when i frowned on the KD and KI approach

KI is a bit of a kook and definite prima donna (plus injury prone)
KD is a super talent but still think the bitch move he played with OKC says a lot about him; sort of did a similar thing with us. Really if he was not interested in Kincks he should have been clear long ago. It's not like he needed us to leverage up his contract -- which would have been a bitch move in its own right; he and his team knew he'd get whatever he wanted in this past FA .

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Uptown wrote:Clearly, Jordan was one of the players lobbying for Atkinson to fired! Also, looks like Vaughn is auditioning the job next year trying to get in good with KD, Kyrie, Jordan and Kleinman.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/Alex__Schiffer/status/1236702847997300738

Yup, pretty much confirms that Kyrie and KD weren't happy with Kenny for not starting their friend. Also their GM wanted to fire him last season but couldn't because they did better than anticipated. Also seems like Kenny had enough of Kyrie and KD pretty early on. Put the three together and his firing is explained

Pretty much...As soon as I heard Atkinson was available, I was all-in for hiring him to coach the Knicks. The more I thought about though, there are some concerns. I don't watch the nets except for when they play the knicks, but being that he is a D'Antoni disciple, one thing that irked the hell out of me with MDA was the lack adjustments he had during games. He believed in his system so much, he rarely made many in game adjustments. I read that that could be a problem with Atkinson as well.

let it be a problem... because if we get to that point Kenny would have done his job. We need a top developmental guy in here to build up this young roster.

All of the available candidates (Thibs, Mark, etc) have their own baggage, so I get that. Just a bit of concern about him. With that said, if Rose is committed to legit rebuild, then Atkinson is a no-brainer. Hopefully, Dolan doesn't mettle and go for a quick fix.

Thats a tough call. I think I want Miller or Atkinson. I feel like Frank and Knox are improving under Miller. At this point, my guess is the front office is planning on moving on from Dot and Zo.

Miller is such a small sample size, so dont mind me while I make broad sweeping judgments based on tiny data points. I like Miller a lot and think he would be a great choice to lead a young developing team. He is also clearly NOT going to push veterans to change their game much and that is less a red flag as a "has special needs" requirement if Miller is our coach. That requirement means really limiting the veterans on his roster. Maybe its just Randle but Julius appears to have carte blanche freedom to make every bad choice he's capable of making (and I LIKE Randle!)

Atkinson seems to do really well with the young veteran group of guys who have been around a little but clearly need work (hey! Its the Kncicks roster!)

We def DID see tweaks to the offense under Miller. Frank seems to be having more and more uptick type games with his current role.

Can we see Mitch attempt a jump shot? Just try? He's shooting 9-26 on the season from anywhere more than 3' outside the rim. Im betting 25 of those 26 were tip in type chucks in traffic that hit rim and count as FG attempts.

Randle plays hard but not smart and has been making the same mistakes all year.

I like Miller's body language (a lot) and I think he's a good guy and an easy guy to play hard for. I think he may have some coaching chops. He strikes me an inexperienced for what we are looking to accomplish, but fingers crossed that Rose makes the right move. I actually think he will make a good choice.

Chandler wrote:one of the knocks I'm reading on Atkinson was poor record against good teams

Another reason I'd like a GM in place (and an identity). We need someone with real vision and sense of judgment to identify talent -- both players, coaches, whole shebang

Im really stuck on this but I don't think GM are stuck with an identity as much as they fulfill the job being asked of them. Sure we got guys that succeed with high tempo and we label them as suck.
SAS evolved over the years. Talent is talent. Rile went from Showtime to Smash mouth Knick bully ball. Its not like a GM can only see a certain type of player.
My guess is the owner and president set the agenda. Phil had his Triangle thing and has 11 rings to show for it. He was a coach and showed he thought like one thru out.
My take is a Good Gm can build what his owner asked him to. I do agree that everyone should be on the same page. Also, that Atkinson if so choosen would be expected to coach stars. He should ask for some say. At the end of the day Blatt was hired to develop a team then Lebron came a callin'........and it all changed. Marks/Atkinson were on the same page until Tsai bought controlling interest. his team. He wants Durant and Kyrie are his GM/coach asked if its a good idea? Or told to get them if they are available. To that point, Joe Tsai is in the room when it happens! Dolan was in the room with Lebron when they courted him 10 years ago. This shyt does not happen without the owner on board. But it does happen without the President/GM. Dolan traded for Melo, not Donnie.
Was Durant and Kyrie asked about the Culture and if they were cool buying into it BEFORE? I don't know. but If IM tsai I asked them if they don't like it, to tell them and they will change it. Looks all pretty amicable. Atkinson was part of the convo and agreed a change was good for all. I like that. He was given a chance. He likely got a nice pay out. No Drama....... Owner is entitled to change the direction of the team, gave his coach an extension, a year to make it work, and they all came away with a good resolution. From what is being written Atkinson wanted out. Reason nobody is up in arms about Kenny in the coaching world is nobody got undercut, dirty dogged or not paid.
This is how you do it right. Good for them.
Does this mean Kenny Atkinson can't grow and coach stars? Is he perhaps totally fine with a 4-5 year window to build a team and if proven he can't, then move on? Im good with that BTW.
I thought MDA handled his exit decently. If he was not being bought back then end it sooner than later for everyone.
JVG was called a quitter? I thought he was just being honest.
Back on task, I do want all on board with this next hire. Pres, GM and coach all on the same page. If Toronto GM is tabbed I can imagine he'll be asked back channeled who he would want, or vet Atkinson if need be.

Owner and President are setting the agenda. GM executes the roster preferences and coach's those players. There will be unity to start. Its down the road that gets unpredictable. Not much you can do until you get there!!