Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:Smith has been a terrible NBA player. I hoped we would see something good here but he's god awful in every way. His rookie season was not good. His shooting was abysmal on terrible team. His A/TO ratio was terrible. He did nothing good with any consistency. Hoped I was wrong on him since we need some of these young guys to break out. DS had many chances and has looked so bad its almost weird

Wait. Realize he has had a terrible 2019 but this is a huge exaggeration from the patient and pro youth development fan base. All who have complained about the Knicks development of players. The kid has played a total of 21 games averaging 16 minutes per, was hurt then had mom die. Yes he has a hitch in his shot and it is a problem. His confidence, helped by loyal booing fans, is at a all time low. But for the ones, with usual fan insight, to say he is "terrible NBA player", lets talk facts. Kid averaged 15/5 his first year. If Frank had done that his first year fans would have had a year long hard on despite the TO ratio analytics fetched from the deep and of course the lack of defense. He then went on to 13/5 despite Mavs finding their Unicorn and Smith dealing with being put in back seat. If Frank had done that the same Knick fans would have had a hard on through Christmas. He then comes here and with all the haters, guess who, saying the kid was a selfish chucker, goes on to average 15/5 and made the haters realize he was more pass first PG than chuker. Again, if Frank did that that the insightful fans would be calling for a max extension. Where was the "God Awful" preached for Frank when he went 5.9/3 first year? 5.7/2.8 second year? Happy Frank has showed some progress in a few games this year and have always maintained we should not give up on him but we are throwing parades for him and the kid has the same numbers he did his first year? Lets cut the bull**** and call it what it is. Reason for bringing Frank into this is to show the hypocrisy with some fans. Smith averaged decent numbers, is extremely athletic, is on team friendly deal, 22 years old, has played limited minutes but fans have struck their gavels. Smh

Have always agreed that ALL young player drafted should be given a chance to succeed and given 3 to 5 years. Frank included. Specially on a team that is rebuilding. Have always preached patience with team full of new players and need for time to gel. This Smith pile on is just another bull**** one sided take fans have when trying to prove some other narratives.

When your defense of a player is to bring up another player, it’s telling and not in a good way

Posted stats to defend Smith. Mentioned Frank to back claim of hypocrisy when claiming a young 22 year old is shot.

Once again, for someone to say a 22 kid is a terrible NBA player, with those type of numbers, they must be biased. Saying a player with those type of numbers is "shot" is short sighted and a bunch of bull.

Sorry for the Frank fans that don't like him being used as an example. Could have used Mitch, RJ or Knox to show that young players have many things to work on but should not be given up on in their first three years.

Point was that preaching patience for other players with the excuse of age and need for development (Which I believe should be the case) but not having the same for Smith is hypocritical. The flack on Smith has other unfair narratives. Don't know why some are pretending they don't exist?

Pretty much everything you are saying is on point. Of all the under 23 and under players on our roster, Smith has shown just as much if not more promise than any of them. Our objective should be to un-tap the 22 yr old pg's potential and get him right. But instead, our impatient fanbase wants to ship him out.

One of my biggest problems with this franchise and some of our fanbase is the lack of patience and stability. Its the reason why we have had 6 coaches in 7 years, and why we boo a d 22 year old. However, we are quick to preach patience when its convent to our agenda or biases. Some are quick to preach patience when it comes to Frank, but Dennis is not afforded that same luxury. Anyone who frequents this board and doesn't see that there's a clear bias towards Frank by some of the posters here is either bias or not being truthful.

With that said, I think most of Dennis's issues are between the ears. I remember seeing Smith rocking a New York or Nowhere hat last year and seeing some of his interviews, it looked as though he was committed to being. The moment we signed Payton, rightly or wrongly, I think he felt as though we weren't as committed to him as he was committed to us. Add in the death of his stepmother, getting booed at home, hearing the crowd chant for the back-up QB, all had a toll on him.

As far as these reports are concerned, who knows if they are true or not. There is direct quote where Dennis says he wants to be here. You can call Dennis soft, or a snowflake, but also, make sure you call him a 22 year old.

Patience is great thing but every patience has its limits.
The issue with Smith is about how he can handle the pressure and his limited defensive abilities.
Frank defense and age (2 years younger) allows us to be much more patient with him.
He has value no matter what. Smith not so much.
Our early rebuild situation may not be good for his timeline.
He is forced to perform and compete with other prospects which reflects purely on him.
If he will have some smaller role elsewhere he may get better opportunity to easy himself back and get healthy.

arkrud wrote:
Patience is great thing but every patience has its limits.
The issue with Smith is about how he can handle the pressure and his limited defensive abilities.
Frank defense and age (2 years younger) allows us to be much more patient with him.
He has value no matter what. Smith not so much.
Our early rebuild situation may not be good for his timeline.
He is forced to perform and compete with other prospects which reflects purely on him.
If he will have some smaller role elsewhere he may get better opportunity to easy himself back and get healthy.

Frank is 8 months younger than Dennis, not 2 years.

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:Smith has been a terrible NBA player. I hoped we would see something good here but he's god awful in every way. His rookie season was not good. His shooting was abysmal on terrible team. His A/TO ratio was terrible. He did nothing good with any consistency. Hoped I was wrong on him since we need some of these young guys to break out. DS had many chances and has looked so bad its almost weird

Wait. Realize he has had a terrible 2019 but this is a huge exaggeration from the patient and pro youth development fan base. All who have complained about the Knicks development of players. The kid has played a total of 21 games averaging 16 minutes per, was hurt then had mom die. Yes he has a hitch in his shot and it is a problem. His confidence, helped by loyal booing fans, is at a all time low. But for the ones, with usual fan insight, to say he is "terrible NBA player", lets talk facts. Kid averaged 15/5 his first year. If Frank had done that his first year fans would have had a year long hard on despite the TO ratio analytics fetched from the deep and of course the lack of defense. He then went on to 13/5 despite Mavs finding their Unicorn and Smith dealing with being put in back seat. If Frank had done that the same Knick fans would have had a hard on through Christmas. He then comes here and with all the haters, guess who, saying the kid was a selfish chucker, goes on to average 15/5 and made the haters realize he was more pass first PG than chuker. Again, if Frank did that that the insightful fans would be calling for a max extension. Where was the "God Awful" preached for Frank when he went 5.9/3 first year? 5.7/2.8 second year? Happy Frank has showed some progress in a few games this year and have always maintained we should not give up on him but we are throwing parades for him and the kid has the same numbers he did his first year? Lets cut the bull**** and call it what it is. Reason for bringing Frank into this is to show the hypocrisy with some fans. Smith averaged decent numbers, is extremely athletic, is on team friendly deal, 22 years old, has played limited minutes but fans have struck their gavels. Smh

Have always agreed that ALL young player drafted should be given a chance to succeed and given 3 to 5 years. Frank included. Specially on a team that is rebuilding. Have always preached patience with team full of new players and need for time to gel. This Smith pile on is just another bull**** one sided take fans have when trying to prove some other narratives.

When your defense of a player is to bring up another player, it’s telling and not in a good way

Posted stats to defend Smith. Mentioned Frank to back claim of hypocrisy when claiming a young 22 year old is shot.

Once again, for someone to say a 22 kid is a terrible NBA player, with those type of numbers, they must be biased. Saying a player with those type of numbers is "shot" is short sighted and a bunch of bull.

Sorry for the Frank fans that don't like him being used as an example. Could have used Mitch, RJ or Knox to show that young players have many things to work on but should not be given up on in their first three years.

Point was that preaching patience for other players with the excuse of age and need for development (Which I believe should be the case) but not having the same for Smith is hypocritical. The flack on Smith has other unfair narratives. Don't know why some are pretending they don't exist?

Pretty much everything you are saying is on point. Of all the under 23 and under players on our roster, Smith has shown just as much if not more promise than any of them. Our objective should be to un-tap the 22 yr old pg's potential and get him right. But instead, our impatient fanbase wants to ship him out.

One of my biggest problems with this franchise and some of our fanbase is the lack of patience and stability. Its the reason why we have had 6 coaches in 7 years, and why we boo a d 22 year old. However, we are quick to preach patience when its convent to our agenda or biases. Some are quick to preach patience when it comes to Frank, but Dennis is not afforded that same luxury. Anyone who frequents this board and doesn't see that there's a clear bias towards Frank by some of the posters here is either bias or not being truthful.

With that said, I think most of Dennis's issues are between the ears. I remember seeing Smith rocking a New York or Nowhere hat last year and seeing some of his interviews, it looked as though he was committed to being. The moment we signed Payton, rightly or wrongly, I think he felt as though we weren't as committed to him as he was committed to us. Add in the death of his stepmother, getting booed at home, hearing the crowd chant for the back-up QB, all had a toll on him.

As far as these reports are concerned, who knows if they are true or not. There is direct quote where Dennis says he wants to be here. You can call Dennis soft, or a snowflake, but also, make sure you call him a 22 year old.

The commitment is Knicks picked up his option. He's under contract. Thats the commitment. Its year 3 bro... up to you to start playing better basketball and showing something deserving of a commitment.

My god I wonder what DS was thinking watching Kadeem Allen come in and immediately have a good impact? Getting DS "fixed" would be great. The Knicks need talent and impact players. But if guys are going to cry about minutes or commitment when every time they are on the floor they are terrible what is the FO supposed to do?

The Knicks PG play is improving but still not great. This guy should be working getting healthy and getting back on the floor.

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:Smith has been a terrible NBA player. I hoped we would see something good here but he's god awful in every way. His rookie season was not good. His shooting was abysmal on terrible team. His A/TO ratio was terrible. He did nothing good with any consistency. Hoped I was wrong on him since we need some of these young guys to break out. DS had many chances and has looked so bad its almost weird

Wait. Realize he has had a terrible 2019 but this is a huge exaggeration from the patient and pro youth development fan base. All who have complained about the Knicks development of players. The kid has played a total of 21 games averaging 16 minutes per, was hurt then had mom die. Yes he has a hitch in his shot and it is a problem. His confidence, helped by loyal booing fans, is at a all time low. But for the ones, with usual fan insight, to say he is "terrible NBA player", lets talk facts. Kid averaged 15/5 his first year. If Frank had done that his first year fans would have had a year long hard on despite the TO ratio analytics fetched from the deep and of course the lack of defense. He then went on to 13/5 despite Mavs finding their Unicorn and Smith dealing with being put in back seat. If Frank had done that the same Knick fans would have had a hard on through Christmas. He then comes here and with all the haters, guess who, saying the kid was a selfish chucker, goes on to average 15/5 and made the haters realize he was more pass first PG than chuker. Again, if Frank did that that the insightful fans would be calling for a max extension. Where was the "God Awful" preached for Frank when he went 5.9/3 first year? 5.7/2.8 second year? Happy Frank has showed some progress in a few games this year and have always maintained we should not give up on him but we are throwing parades for him and the kid has the same numbers he did his first year? Lets cut the bull**** and call it what it is. Reason for bringing Frank into this is to show the hypocrisy with some fans. Smith averaged decent numbers, is extremely athletic, is on team friendly deal, 22 years old, has played limited minutes but fans have struck their gavels. Smh

Have always agreed that ALL young player drafted should be given a chance to succeed and given 3 to 5 years. Frank included. Specially on a team that is rebuilding. Have always preached patience with team full of new players and need for time to gel. This Smith pile on is just another bull**** one sided take fans have when trying to prove some other narratives.

When your defense of a player is to bring up another player, it’s telling and not in a good way

Posted stats to defend Smith. Mentioned Frank to back claim of hypocrisy when claiming a young 22 year old is shot.

Once again, for someone to say a 22 kid is a terrible NBA player, with those type of numbers, they must be biased. Saying a player with those type of numbers is "shot" is short sighted and a bunch of bull.

Sorry for the Frank fans that don't like him being used as an example. Could have used Mitch, RJ or Knox to show that young players have many things to work on but should not be given up on in their first three years.

Point was that preaching patience for other players with the excuse of age and need for development (Which I believe should be the case) but not having the same for Smith is hypocritical. The flack on Smith has other unfair narratives. Don't know why some are pretending they don't exist?

Pretty much everything you are saying is on point. Of all the under 23 and under players on our roster, Smith has shown just as much if not more promise than any of them. Our objective should be to un-tap the 22 yr old pg's potential and get him right. But instead, our impatient fanbase wants to ship him out.

One of my biggest problems with this franchise and some of our fanbase is the lack of patience and stability. Its the reason why we have had 6 coaches in 7 years, and why we boo a d 22 year old. However, we are quick to preach patience when its convent to our agenda or biases. Some are quick to preach patience when it comes to Frank, but Dennis is not afforded that same luxury. Anyone who frequents this board and doesn't see that there's a clear bias towards Frank by some of the posters here is either bias or not being truthful.

With that said, I think most of Dennis's issues are between the ears. I remember seeing Smith rocking a New York or Nowhere hat last year and seeing some of his interviews, it looked as though he was committed to being. The moment we signed Payton, rightly or wrongly, I think he felt as though we weren't as committed to him as he was committed to us. Add in the death of his stepmother, getting booed at home, hearing the crowd chant for the back-up QB, all had a toll on him.

As far as these reports are concerned, who knows if they are true or not. There is direct quote where Dennis says he wants to be here. You can call Dennis soft, or a snowflake, but also, make sure you call him a 22 year old.

I can be plenty patient.. just not with players who think they are entitled. Its toxic for the team. He didnt feel the team was committed to him? They arent. The team is committed to the team. All Dennis Smith accomplished on the floor was convince the FO that they needed veteran help and were right to do so. Im great with waiting on and working on 22 year olds... if they want to be here. Frank has been terrible but he shows flashes and has taken every demotion and bad game with an "I need to get better" attitude and he's getting better (slowly). Have we seen that from Smith? We havent *seen* anything but article saying he wants to be somewhere else.

The commitment is Knicks picked up his option. He's under contract. Thats the commitment. Its year 3 bro... up to you to start playing better basketball and showing something deserving of a commitment.

My god I wonder what DS was thinking watching Kadeem Allen come in and immediately have a good impact? Getting DS "fixed" would be great. The Knicks need talent and impact players. But if guys are going to cry about minutes or commitment when every time they are on the floor they are terrible what is the FO supposed to do?

The Knicks PG play is improving but still not great. This guy should be working getting healthy and getting back on the floor.

Of course the team is committed to the team. That's easy for me and you to see, but from the perspective of a 22 yr old, maybe not so much.

I started coaching high school basketball about 3 years ago. I was stunned to find out the transfer process is more pervasive in high school than in college. When a player sees that his minutes are threatened by an incoming-freshman or another transfer, he bails. Most don't look at it as healthy competition, they look at it as a lack of confidence in them coaching staff because we added a player or 2 at their position. Trust me when I tell you this because we lost an upcoming junior with loads of potential to because of this same situation. We're dealing with a generation of entitlement. When I mentioned that when we signed Payton, Smith may have thought we weren't committed to him, I was just trying to write from the perspective of a 22 yr old, not trying to say its right or wrong.

As far as the article is concerned, it could be all speculation. I haven't seen a direct quote from Dennis saying he wants out, that he doesn't ant to be here, nor have I seen any quotes where Smith is crying about minutes. There's another article floating around the 'net that suggested that Morris and Portis want be traded without any direct quotes. Yet, Morris has said time and again that he wants to be here so I can't put too much stock in an article that may be looking for clicks.

If Smith jr didnt ask to be traded, Id wait as long as it takes for him to get healthy. Then Id send him to G league for a while. Less pressure. Or Id shut him down for the season, and start working on next season. Unless we make the plsyoffs, and need the help, give DSJr the time to get right. zno point in rushing him back

If he wants out, give Smith jr. what he wants.

Here's a question, how many Dallas games did you watch his rookie season? There's a danger in putting a lot of weight on stats regarding players on other teams who you didn't see play very often. And I would have a very hard time believing you watched many Dallas games during a 24 win season (by the way, a nine game drop off from the previous season).

What I find more telling is this, when DSJ was traded to us I checked out the Dallas message board and they were THRILLED to unload him. That leads me to believe those stats were only impressive on paper. Most of the fans who watched him play consistently were glad to see him go. And this wasn't a KP thing where the fans were bitter for off-court reasons, they simply didn't like what he delivered on the court. And after seeing him for parts of two seasons, I'm inclined to lean towards their assessment of him being more accurate than those stats.

The point regarding MCW is this, he also had impressive stats as a rookie. But Philly must have thought he wasn't as good as his stats/rookie of the year honor would lead you to believe and got rid of him in his second season. He's now in year seven and is barely hanging on to stay in the league.

Wait, your the one questioning actual stats over the eye test and your asking how many games have I watched? Which btw way, I saw most. As I wanted Smith,Donavon and Monk in draft and wanted to follow their progress. Easy to do with league pass. And if you love basketball.

Then you go on to use to other important metrics. One, the metric of what fans feel on a fan forum.
Makes sense. Two, the TWO years we aaw it for ourselves. Think you know he had a half of season last year. One which he created more and set more guys up than we had seen in a long time. Probably would have had double the assists if anyone on the team could shoot. As for the other year? Do you mean the 20+ games of limited playing, after an injury, mom died and he got booed by loyal fans? Fair take.

Here is the question for you. And for everyome else that wants to put wanting to trade a 22 year old who has showed potential as a fair take. WHY? His huge salary? His old age? Why? Hmmm....

HofstraBBall wrote:

Here's a question, how many Dallas games did you watch his rookie season? There's a danger in putting a lot of weight on stats regarding players on other teams who you didn't see play very often. And I would have a very hard time believing you watched many Dallas games during a 24 win season (by the way, a nine game drop off from the previous season).

What I find more telling is this, when DSJ was traded to us I checked out the Dallas message board and they were THRILLED to unload him. That leads me to believe those stats were only impressive on paper. Most of the fans who watched him play consistently were glad to see him go. And this wasn't a KP thing where the fans were bitter for off-court reasons, they simply didn't like what he delivered on the court. And after seeing him for parts of two seasons, I'm inclined to lean towards their assessment of him being more accurate than those stats.

The point regarding MCW is this, he also had impressive stats as a rookie. But Philly must have thought he wasn't as good as his stats/rookie of the year honor would lead you to believe and got rid of him in his second season. He's now in year seven and is barely hanging on to stay in the league.

Wait, your the one questioning actual stats over the eye test and your asking how many games have I watched? Which btw way, I saw most. As I wanted Smith,Donavon and Monk in draft and wanted to follow their progress. Easy to do with league pass. And if you love basketball.

Then you go on to use to other important metrics. One, the metric of what fans feel on a fan forum.
Makes sense. Two, the TWO years we aaw it for ourselves. Think you know he had a half of season last year. One which he created more and set more guys up than we had seen in a long time. Probably would have had double the assists if anyone on the team could shoot. As for the other year? Do you mean the 20+ games of limited playing, after an injury, mom died and he got booed by loyal fans? Fair take.

Here is the question for you. And for everyome else that wants to put wanting to trade a 22 year old who has showed potential as a fair take. WHY? His huge salary? His old age? Why? Hmmm....

You keep saying he's shown potential. Potential to be what? I high volume shooter who puts up numbers that doesn't affect winning? An athletic undersized two guard forced to play PG without the skills to do so? A highlight reel dunker with the potential to win a slam dunk championship?

I honestly don't really want the guy traded because it would make the KP trade even worse, his trade value is rock bottom right now. But what do you do with the guy? Keep him on the bench? Play him no matter how horrible he has been? Send him to the g-league? Keep playing him token minutes hoping he turns it around. Invent some injury and shut him down for the rest of the year? Keep leaning on a multitude of excuses why he hasn't set the league on fire. At least Frank has shown the potential to deliver plays that affect winning. Can you honestly say DSJ has shown that?

And I'm not a Frank fan before you play that card.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:Smith has been a terrible NBA player. I hoped we would see something good here but he's god awful in every way. His rookie season was not good. His shooting was abysmal on terrible team. His A/TO ratio was terrible. He did nothing good with any consistency. Hoped I was wrong on him since we need some of these young guys to break out. DS had many chances and has looked so bad its almost weird

Wait. Realize he has had a terrible 2019 but this is a huge exaggeration from the patient and pro youth development fan base. All who have complained about the Knicks development of players. The kid has played a total of 21 games averaging 16 minutes per, was hurt then had mom die. Yes he has a hitch in his shot and it is a problem. His confidence, helped by loyal booing fans, is at a all time low. But for the ones, with usual fan insight, to say he is "terrible NBA player", lets talk facts. Kid averaged 15/5 his first year. If Frank had done that his first year fans would have had a year long hard on despite the TO ratio analytics fetched from the deep and of course the lack of defense. He then went on to 13/5 despite Mavs finding their Unicorn and Smith dealing with being put in back seat. If Frank had done that the same Knick fans would have had a hard on through Christmas. He then comes here and with all the haters, guess who, saying the kid was a selfish chucker, goes on to average 15/5 and made the haters realize he was more pass first PG than chuker. Again, if Frank did that that the insightful fans would be calling for a max extension. Where was the "God Awful" preached for Frank when he went 5.9/3 first year? 5.7/2.8 second year? Happy Frank has showed some progress in a few games this year and have always maintained we should not give up on him but we are throwing parades for him and the kid has the same numbers he did his first year? Lets cut the bull**** and call it what it is. Reason for bringing Frank into this is to show the hypocrisy with some fans. Smith averaged decent numbers, is extremely athletic, is on team friendly deal, 22 years old, has played limited minutes but fans have struck their gavels. Smh

Have always agreed that ALL young player drafted should be given a chance to succeed and given 3 to 5 years. Frank included. Specially on a team that is rebuilding. Have always preached patience with team full of new players and need for time to gel. This Smith pile on is just another bull**** one sided take fans have when trying to prove some other narratives.

When your defense of a player is to bring up another player, it’s telling and not in a good way

Posted stats to defend Smith. Mentioned Frank to back claim of hypocrisy when claiming a young 22 year old is shot.

Once again, for someone to say a 22 kid is a terrible NBA player, with those type of numbers, they must be biased. Saying a player with those type of numbers is "shot" is short sighted and a bunch of bull.

Sorry for the Frank fans that don't like him being used as an example. Could have used Mitch, RJ or Knox to show that young players have many things to work on but should not be given up on in their first three years.

Point was that preaching patience for other players with the excuse of age and need for development (Which I believe should be the case) but not having the same for Smith is hypocritical. The flack on Smith has other unfair narratives. Don't know why some are pretending they don't exist?

Pretty much everything you are saying is on point. Of all the under 23 and under players on our roster, Smith has shown just as much if not more promise than any of them. Our objective should be to un-tap the 22 yr old pg's potential and get him right. But instead, our impatient fanbase wants to ship him out.

One of my biggest problems with this franchise and some of our fanbase is the lack of patience and stability. Its the reason why we have had 6 coaches in 7 years, and why we boo a d 22 year old. However, we are quick to preach patience when its convent to our agenda or biases. Some are quick to preach patience when it comes to Frank, but Dennis is not afforded that same luxury. Anyone who frequents this board and doesn't see that there's a clear bias towards Frank by some of the posters here is either bias or not being truthful.

With that said, I think most of Dennis's issues are between the ears. I remember seeing Smith rocking a New York or Nowhere hat last year and seeing some of his interviews, it looked as though he was committed to being. The moment we signed Payton, rightly or wrongly, I think he felt as though we weren't as committed to him as he was committed to us. Add in the death of his stepmother, getting booed at home, hearing the crowd chant for the back-up QB, all had a toll on him.

As far as these reports are concerned, who knows if they are true or not. There is direct quote where Dennis says he wants to be here. You can call Dennis soft, or a snowflake, but also, make sure you call him a 22 year old.

I can be plenty patient.. just not with players who think they are entitled. Its toxic for the team. He didnt feel the team was committed to him? They arent. The team is committed to the team. All Dennis Smith accomplished on the floor was convince the FO that they needed veteran help and were right to do so. Im great with waiting on and working on 22 year olds... if they want to be here. Frank has been terrible but he shows flashes and has taken every demotion and bad game with an "I need to get better" attitude and he's getting better (slowly). Have we seen that from Smith? We havent *seen* anything but article saying he wants to be somewhere else.

The commitment is Knicks picked up his option. He's under contract. Thats the commitment. Its year 3 bro... up to you to start playing better basketball and showing something deserving of a commitment.

My god I wonder what DS was thinking watching Kadeem Allen come in and immediately have a good impact? Getting DS "fixed" would be great. The Knicks need talent and impact players. But if guys are going to cry about minutes or commitment when every time they are on the floor they are terrible what is the FO supposed to do?

The Knicks PG play is improving but still not great. This guy should be working getting healthy and getting back on the floor.

Mike still trying to prove that Frank was a better pick. So if the stats vs eye test argument don't make sense. And if the age consideration is only important for Frank. Then resort to pushing the false selfish narrative to make your point? Weak. Here are the two articles on Smith "entitlement"/ wanting a trade. One which does not even mention his name, just a bloggers assumption. Second where he directly answered the question. Once again, why the urgency to trade a 22 year old on a team friendly deal who has shown potential? Let me guess for the Knicks sake? Trade a major part of what we got for our Unicorn when his value is so low?

https://nypost.com/2019/12/28/knicks-dennis-smith-jr-responds-to-trade-rumors-as-frustrations-escalate/

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/a-few-knicks-players-reportedly-prefer-to-be-traded-marcus-morris-dennis-smith-jr-among-names-to-watch/

Well good! Maybe he doesn't want to be traded.

Now we can just focus on the abysmal basketball he's played since being a Knick. Based on the fact that he's played like a less athletic Mudiay I would say this guy has some physical issues. He's not an athlete basketball player right now plain and simple. That has him relying on... you can use your own eyes.

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

martin wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:Smith has been a terrible NBA player. I hoped we would see something good here but he's god awful in every way. His rookie season was not good. His shooting was abysmal on terrible team. His A/TO ratio was terrible. He did nothing good with any consistency. Hoped I was wrong on him since we need some of these young guys to break out. DS had many chances and has looked so bad its almost weird

Wait. Realize he has had a terrible 2019 but this is a huge exaggeration from the patient and pro youth development fan base. All who have complained about the Knicks development of players. The kid has played a total of 21 games averaging 16 minutes per, was hurt then had mom die. Yes he has a hitch in his shot and it is a problem. His confidence, helped by loyal booing fans, is at a all time low. But for the ones, with usual fan insight, to say he is "terrible NBA player", lets talk facts. Kid averaged 15/5 his first year. If Frank had done that his first year fans would have had a year long hard on despite the TO ratio analytics fetched from the deep and of course the lack of defense. He then went on to 13/5 despite Mavs finding their Unicorn and Smith dealing with being put in back seat. If Frank had done that the same Knick fans would have had a hard on through Christmas. He then comes here and with all the haters, guess who, saying the kid was a selfish chucker, goes on to average 15/5 and made the haters realize he was more pass first PG than chuker. Again, if Frank did that that the insightful fans would be calling for a max extension. Where was the "God Awful" preached for Frank when he went 5.9/3 first year? 5.7/2.8 second year? Happy Frank has showed some progress in a few games this year and have always maintained we should not give up on him but we are throwing parades for him and the kid has the same numbers he did his first year? Lets cut the bull**** and call it what it is. Reason for bringing Frank into this is to show the hypocrisy with some fans. Smith averaged decent numbers, is extremely athletic, is on team friendly deal, 22 years old, has played limited minutes but fans have struck their gavels. Smh

Have always agreed that ALL young player drafted should be given a chance to succeed and given 3 to 5 years. Frank included. Specially on a team that is rebuilding. Have always preached patience with team full of new players and need for time to gel. This Smith pile on is just another bull**** one sided take fans have when trying to prove some other narratives.

When your defense of a player is to bring up another player, it’s telling and not in a good way

Posted stats to defend Smith. Mentioned Frank to back claim of hypocrisy when claiming a young 22 year old is shot.

Once again, for someone to say a 22 kid is a terrible NBA player, with those type of numbers, they must be biased. Saying a player with those type of numbers is "shot" is short sighted and a bunch of bull.

Sorry for the Frank fans that don't like him being used as an example. Could have used Mitch, RJ or Knox to show that young players have many things to work on but should not be given up on in their first three years.

Point was that preaching patience for other players with the excuse of age and need for development (Which I believe should be the case) but not having the same for Smith is hypocritical. The flack on Smith has other unfair narratives. Don't know why some are pretending they don't exist?

Pretty much everything you are saying is on point. Of all the under 23 and under players on our roster, Smith has shown just as much if not more promise than any of them. Our objective should be to un-tap the 22 yr old pg's potential and get him right. But instead, our impatient fanbase wants to ship him out.

One of my biggest problems with this franchise and some of our fanbase is the lack of patience and stability. Its the reason why we have had 6 coaches in 7 years, and why we boo a d 22 year old. However, we are quick to preach patience when its convent to our agenda or biases. Some are quick to preach patience when it comes to Frank, but Dennis is not afforded that same luxury. Anyone who frequents this board and doesn't see that there's a clear bias towards Frank by some of the posters here is either bias or not being truthful.

With that said, I think most of Dennis's issues are between the ears. I remember seeing Smith rocking a New York or Nowhere hat last year and seeing some of his interviews, it looked as though he was committed to being. The moment we signed Payton, rightly or wrongly, I think he felt as though we weren't as committed to him as he was committed to us. Add in the death of his stepmother, getting booed at home, hearing the crowd chant for the back-up QB, all had a toll on him.

As far as these reports are concerned, who knows if they are true or not. There is direct quote where Dennis says he wants to be here. You can call Dennis soft, or a snowflake, but also, make sure you call him a 22 year old.

I can be plenty patient.. just not with players who think they are entitled. Its toxic for the team. He didnt feel the team was committed to him? They arent. The team is committed to the team. All Dennis Smith accomplished on the floor was convince the FO that they needed veteran help and were right to do so. Im great with waiting on and working on 22 year olds... if they want to be here. Frank has been terrible but he shows flashes and has taken every demotion and bad game with an "I need to get better" attitude and he's getting better (slowly). Have we seen that from Smith? We havent *seen* anything but article saying he wants to be somewhere else.

The commitment is Knicks picked up his option. He's under contract. Thats the commitment. Its year 3 bro... up to you to start playing better basketball and showing something deserving of a commitment.

My god I wonder what DS was thinking watching Kadeem Allen come in and immediately have a good impact? Getting DS "fixed" would be great. The Knicks need talent and impact players. But if guys are going to cry about minutes or commitment when every time they are on the floor they are terrible what is the FO supposed to do?

The Knicks PG play is improving but still not great. This guy should be working getting healthy and getting back on the floor.

Mike still trying to prove that Frank was a better pick. So if the stats vs eye test argument don't make sense. And if the age consideration is only important for Frank. Then resort to pushing the false selfish narrative to make your point? Weak. Here are the two articles on Smith "entitlement"/ wanting a trade. One which does not even mention his name, just a bloggers assumption. Second where he directly answered the question. Once again, why the urgency to trade a 22 year old on a team friendly deal who has shown potential? Let me guess for the Knicks sake? Trade a major part of what we got for our Unicorn when his value is so low?

https://nypost.com/2019/12/28/knicks-dennis-smith-jr-responds-to-trade-rumors-as-frustrations-escalate/

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/a-few-knicks-players-reportedly-prefer-to-be-traded-marcus-morris-dennis-smith-jr-among-names-to-watch/

Well good! Maybe he doesn't want to be traded.

Now we can just focus on the abysmal basketball he's played since being a Knick. Based on the fact that he's played like a less athletic Mudiay I would say this guy has some physical issues. He's not an athlete basketball player right now plain and simple. That has him relying on... you can use your own eyes.

Stop with the "pushing a false narrative ****" please. This is you having DS butthurt. "Still trying to prove Frank was the better pick" wtf is that? Here's a news flash they both stink. This is YOUR argument lacking substance and resorting to smoke and mirrors.

BTW... Im talking on a thread called "Macri: Knicks will try to accommodate DSJ’s trade wish" and I didn't start the thread so seriously spare me the internet Tom Clancy **** there is no conspiracy here.

Frank's trajectory of a useful bench player in this league is not inspiring. I am hoping for more. Much more. Even less inspiring has been Smith's play. Maybe I need to watch some you tube of his rookie year. So back to the original post and comments which I stand by... *IF* Smith wants to be traded we should accommodate him. Ba-Bye. Don't melt in Phoenix. *IF* that is bull**** and taken out of context after a bad practice where his back is hurting then this is all moot.

What I want to happen is Smith to get healthy and play good basketball. That would really help this team. Ive seen like 3 good games from him since being here. Frank has had at least a dozen good games so **** whoop de doo. WTF does Frank have to do Smith's lousy play?

LMAO. Mike goes bat **** and proves my point. Butt hurt? Transferring at its finest. Bro give it up man.
Smith has had like three good games? You must have closed your eyes a lot last year when he made Frank invisible in a half of season. I see its a touchy subject for you bro. Will let it go and let yo keep riding that 20 game stint this year to keep you stable. As I enjoy the good banter.

Your right though. Frank is still a useful bench player. Has not shown much else then to be a "role player". Which btw you argued against vigorously two years ago with me. At least you are now admitting I was right. And btw, I still think we should keep Frank. I am not some bitter fan trying to prove untrue points. As it stands now the kid has shown improvement and even though he is not been a top 10 pick caliber player he is still a solid defender, 22 years old and is on a team friendly deal. He has also shown potential to break out of being mediocre offensively. It may surprise you but I think he can turn the corner and become a solid starter if he continues to be more aggressive. And AGAIN, not making a claim other than the bull**** narrative you and others have to get rid of a 22 year old kid who has shown even more potential.

But now back to what I called you out on. Nothing personal, as I said, your an astute poster, but guess stubbornness is your weakness. You quoting the original thread title is hilarious. Taking a rumor blog and turning into your rant to lay shade on Smith. Tom Clancy would need no more than a sentence to see right through your narrative. (Hurt over your take of Frank vs Smith 2 years ago) As for smoke and mirrors, here is some stats for you. Frank is averaging 5.9 and 3.2 this year. Smith is at 5.2 and 2.7 with his agreed upon abysmal showing thus far. Frank averaged 5.9 and 3.2 last year. Smith with Knicks 14.7 and 5.4. Their rookie year Frank 5.9 and 3.2 vs Smith 15.2 and 5.2. So tell me who's got the smoke and mirrors? But yeah, your eye test is showing more potential for Frank, who's numbers show no sign of improvement but you think it's a priority to trade a 22 year kid who has shown more? Give it up.