KnickDanger wrote:I'm not all in on Fiz but criticizing him for Mitch Robinson's minutes is the typical emotional/dumb fan spouting off.

You can't turn on sports radio without hearing gasbags and dimwits shouting for the heads of coaches, GMs, etc. A few weeks ago it was the Jets coach Gase -- now they're on a win streak and I guess he's good until he loses again. The concept of stability is antithetical in the ADD era. These fans co-create the atmosphere of losing.

+100

I know we shouldn't beat toronto, but the pattern is the same - we hang tight, then melt. Players are not getting back on defense, they are giving up.

Under 20 games, and it really looks like some of the players have given up.

NYKBocker wrote:Yes. Fire him now. He hasn't shown any sign of being an NBA coach. Dude has no backbone. No offensive plan.

Hard to believe they keep these group of clowns running the show...from Perry, Mill, and Fitz...
How long or better yet, what will it take to clean house?

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:Fizdale has a lot of problems as a coach but chief among them is his refusal to commit fully to the young core. I have no problem with firing Fiz but unless the new coach commits fully the kids what's the point.

If the Knicks do pull the trigger and fire Fiz a coach that's interesting is Mike Miller. He has had much success in Westchester so he can coach (at least at the G League level). The other important point is that coaching in the G league has given him experience playing and developing young players. So playing and developing the young core with the knicks would not be foreign to him.

The willingness to play and develop young players should be high on the list when choosing the next coach and Miller would seem to fit the bill.

So what does Fully Commit to the kids mean to you? What would be different this year for Fiz to commit to the kids?

Well for one Mitch should be starting. A 34 year old Taj Gibson should not be starting over him.
Yes Mitch fouls a lot but if Fiz continues to start Randle even though he turns the ball over at a prodigious rate himself and bogs down the offense with his iso play he can start Mitch. Let Mitch play through the fouls He is a young player this is the way he will improve in that area.

He also justifies sitting Mitch by saying he wants spacing with on the court. If he is interested in someone to space the floor why not start Dotson who has proven to be a capable shooter instead of sitting Mitch for Gibson.

Then There is Trier. While Trier is not ready to start due to his iso style of play he should be getting ample minutes as a sixth man off the bench type. For a team that has often struggled to put the ball in the basket a player like Trier who has shown he is capable of getting buckets in bunches should not be glued to the bench

Finally Frank. Fizdale had no intention of giving Frank a chance until the fans turned on him. Given how Fiz has jerked Frank around in the past I am still not fully convinced he is committed to Frank as the starter. I know this is unfair to Fiz since Frank is starting now but I can't help but think that when Payton returns he will relegate Frank to the Bench. Again I admit this is probably unfair to say since there is no way of knowing if I am right until Payton returns.

You didn't really suggest anything different than is already happening. Mitch is not starting but he is getting as many minutes as his fouls allows and the team has a better rotation when he comes off bench. Mitch needs to earn that starting position and he hasn't.

Can't suggest giving Trier or Dot minutes without taking away some from RJ, plus both of those guys haven't really earned it. Same for Knox.

Gibson
Randle
Morris
RJ
Frank

I am suggesting an almost completely different starting lineup featuring the kids

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank

I am also suggesting that Fiz give Knox and Trier consistent minutes off the bench instead of gluing them to said bench as he is doing now

I'd like to add that while I agree with Fiz not starting Knox because of the defensive shortcomings, I would like to see him experiment with Knox at the four in spurts to see if that limits said defensive shortcomings.

Knox's defensive issues stems in large part from his lack of lateral quickness. Given this lack of lateral quickness Fiz should never be playing him at the 2 as he has done on occasions. Instead he should limit Knox at the 3 and experiment with him more at the four where is lack of lateral quickness is less of a hindrance.

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:Fizdale has a lot of problems as a coach but chief among them is his refusal to commit fully to the young core. I have no problem with firing Fiz but unless the new coach commits fully the kids what's the point.

If the Knicks do pull the trigger and fire Fiz a coach that's interesting is Mike Miller. He has had much success in Westchester so he can coach (at least at the G League level). The other important point is that coaching in the G league has given him experience playing and developing young players. So playing and developing the young core with the knicks would not be foreign to him.

The willingness to play and develop young players should be high on the list when choosing the next coach and Miller would seem to fit the bill.

So what does Fully Commit to the kids mean to you? What would be different this year for Fiz to commit to the kids?

Well for one Mitch should be starting. A 34 year old Taj Gibson should not be starting over him.
Yes Mitch fouls a lot but if Fiz continues to start Randle even though he turns the ball over at a prodigious rate himself and bogs down the offense with his iso play he can start Mitch. Let Mitch play through the fouls He is a young player this is the way he will improve in that area.

He also justifies sitting Mitch by saying he wants spacing with on the court. If he is interested in someone to space the floor why not start Dotson who has proven to be a capable shooter instead of sitting Mitch for Gibson.

Then There is Trier. While Trier is not ready to start due to his iso style of play he should be getting ample minutes as a sixth man off the bench type. For a team that has often struggled to put the ball in the basket a player like Trier who has shown he is capable of getting buckets in bunches should not be glued to the bench

Finally Frank. Fizdale had no intention of giving Frank a chance until the fans turned on him. Given how Fiz has jerked Frank around in the past I am still not fully convinced he is committed to Frank as the starter. I know this is unfair to Fiz since Frank is starting now but I can't help but think that when Payton returns he will relegate Frank to the Bench. Again I admit this is probably unfair to say since there is no way of knowing if I am right until Payton returns.

You didn't really suggest anything different than is already happening. Mitch is not starting but he is getting as many minutes as his fouls allows and the team has a better rotation when he comes off bench. Mitch needs to earn that starting position and he hasn't.

Can't suggest giving Trier or Dot minutes without taking away some from RJ, plus both of those guys haven't really earned it. Same for Knox.

What are you saying not suggesting anything different. This is the lineup Fiz is starting:

Gibson
Randle
Morris
RJ
Frank

I am suggesting an almost completely different starting lineup featuring the kids

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank

I am also suggesting that Fiz give Knox and Trier consistent minutes off the bench instead of gluing them to said bench as he is doing now

I'd like to add that while I agree with Fiz not starting Knox because of the defensive shortcomings, I would like to see him experiment with Knox at the four in spurts to see if that limits said defensive shortcomings.

Knox's defensive issues stems in large part from his lack of lateral quickness. Given this lack of lateral quickness Fiz should never be playing him at the 2 as he has done on occasions. Instead he should limit Knox at the 3 and experiment with him more at the four where is lack of lateral quickness is less of a hindrance.

Thats the lineup Id play too

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:Fizdale has a lot of problems as a coach but chief among them is his refusal to commit fully to the young core. I have no problem with firing Fiz but unless the new coach commits fully the kids what's the point.

If the Knicks do pull the trigger and fire Fiz a coach that's interesting is Mike Miller. He has had much success in Westchester so he can coach (at least at the G League level). The other important point is that coaching in the G league has given him experience playing and developing young players. So playing and developing the young core with the knicks would not be foreign to him.

The willingness to play and develop young players should be high on the list when choosing the next coach and Miller would seem to fit the bill.

So what does Fully Commit to the kids mean to you? What would be different this year for Fiz to commit to the kids?

Well for one Mitch should be starting. A 34 year old Taj Gibson should not be starting over him.
Yes Mitch fouls a lot but if Fiz continues to start Randle even though he turns the ball over at a prodigious rate himself and bogs down the offense with his iso play he can start Mitch. Let Mitch play through the fouls He is a young player this is the way he will improve in that area.

He also justifies sitting Mitch by saying he wants spacing with on the court. If he is interested in someone to space the floor why not start Dotson who has proven to be a capable shooter instead of sitting Mitch for Gibson.

Then There is Trier. While Trier is not ready to start due to his iso style of play he should be getting ample minutes as a sixth man off the bench type. For a team that has often struggled to put the ball in the basket a player like Trier who has shown he is capable of getting buckets in bunches should not be glued to the bench

Finally Frank. Fizdale had no intention of giving Frank a chance until the fans turned on him. Given how Fiz has jerked Frank around in the past I am still not fully convinced he is committed to Frank as the starter. I know this is unfair to Fiz since Frank is starting now but I can't help but think that when Payton returns he will relegate Frank to the Bench. Again I admit this is probably unfair to say since there is no way of knowing if I am right until Payton returns.

You didn't really suggest anything different than is already happening. Mitch is not starting but he is getting as many minutes as his fouls allows and the team has a better rotation when he comes off bench. Mitch needs to earn that starting position and he hasn't.

Can't suggest giving Trier or Dot minutes without taking away some from RJ, plus both of those guys haven't really earned it. Same for Knox.

What are you saying not suggesting anything different. This is the lineup Fiz is starting:

Gibson
Randle
Morris
RJ
Frank

I am suggesting an almost completely different starting lineup featuring the kids

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank

I am also suggesting that Fiz give Knox and Trier consistent minutes off the bench instead of gluing them to said bench as he is doing now

I'd like to add that while I agree with Fiz not starting Knox because of the defensive shortcomings, I would like to see him experiment with Knox at the four in spurts to see if that limits said defensive shortcomings.

Knox's defensive issues stems in large part from his lack of lateral quickness. Given this lack of lateral quickness Fiz should never be playing him at the 2 as he has done on occasions. Instead he should limit Knox at the 3 and experiment with him more at the four where is lack of lateral quickness is less of a hindrance.

Thats the lineup Id play too

You mind as well, unless you're still holding out for that magical playoff run.

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:Fizdale has a lot of problems as a coach but chief among them is his refusal to commit fully to the young core. I have no problem with firing Fiz but unless the new coach commits fully the kids what's the point.

If the Knicks do pull the trigger and fire Fiz a coach that's interesting is Mike Miller. He has had much success in Westchester so he can coach (at least at the G League level). The other important point is that coaching in the G league has given him experience playing and developing young players. So playing and developing the young core with the knicks would not be foreign to him.

The willingness to play and develop young players should be high on the list when choosing the next coach and Miller would seem to fit the bill.

So what does Fully Commit to the kids mean to you? What would be different this year for Fiz to commit to the kids?

Well for one Mitch should be starting. A 34 year old Taj Gibson should not be starting over him.
Yes Mitch fouls a lot but if Fiz continues to start Randle even though he turns the ball over at a prodigious rate himself and bogs down the offense with his iso play he can start Mitch. Let Mitch play through the fouls He is a young player this is the way he will improve in that area.

He also justifies sitting Mitch by saying he wants spacing with on the court. If he is interested in someone to space the floor why not start Dotson who has proven to be a capable shooter instead of sitting Mitch for Gibson.

Then There is Trier. While Trier is not ready to start due to his iso style of play he should be getting ample minutes as a sixth man off the bench type. For a team that has often struggled to put the ball in the basket a player like Trier who has shown he is capable of getting buckets in bunches should not be glued to the bench

Finally Frank. Fizdale had no intention of giving Frank a chance until the fans turned on him. Given how Fiz has jerked Frank around in the past I am still not fully convinced he is committed to Frank as the starter. I know this is unfair to Fiz since Frank is starting now but I can't help but think that when Payton returns he will relegate Frank to the Bench. Again I admit this is probably unfair to say since there is no way of knowing if I am right until Payton returns.

You didn't really suggest anything different than is already happening. Mitch is not starting but he is getting as many minutes as his fouls allows and the team has a better rotation when he comes off bench. Mitch needs to earn that starting position and he hasn't.

Can't suggest giving Trier or Dot minutes without taking away some from RJ, plus both of those guys haven't really earned it. Same for Knox.

What are you saying not suggesting anything different. This is the lineup Fiz is starting:

Gibson
Randle
Morris
RJ
Frank

I am suggesting an almost completely different starting lineup featuring the kids

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank

I am also suggesting that Fiz give Knox and Trier consistent minutes off the bench instead of gluing them to said bench as he is doing now

I'd like to add that while I agree with Fiz not starting Knox because of the defensive shortcomings, I would like to see him experiment with Knox at the four in spurts to see if that limits said defensive shortcomings.

Knox's defensive issues stems in large part from his lack of lateral quickness. Given this lack of lateral quickness Fiz should never be playing him at the 2 as he has done on occasions. Instead he should limit Knox at the 3 and experiment with him more at the four where is lack of lateral quickness is less of a hindrance.

Thats the lineup Id play too

You mind as well, unless you're still holding out for that magical playoff run.

The Knicks signed Randle like he is a part of the future. He just turned twenty five. He has an incredible ability to kill my passion for the Knicks and watching their games. But, his game was a bit better last night. I would like to see his role reigned in to one he could be successful in. Maybe that becomes easier when Elf is back. Randle might do better in a bench role. I also want to see Zo back in the rotation. As a rookie Zo was almost a 50-40-80 guy and the KNicks need scoring. Not sure what he needs to do on the court but if he is holding the ball too much or his d isn't good enough please hold some of the vets accountable as well.

Agreed with everything you are saying, especially getting Zo back in the rotation. For all of his faults, the one thing Zo does well is get buckets. Coming into last season, we had 3 good rookies that were going to be in the rotation. Knox won rookie of the month, Robinson was all second team and Zo was, at one point, one of the steals or hidden gems of the last years rookie crop.

Now, both Knox and Zo are collecting DNP's while players who dont figure to be a part of our future get mins over them. I get what the front office tried to do with this years roster in terms of trying to create the illusion that we are further along in our development than we are and if we fall short, flip 1 or 2 of the expiring deals into draft picks or young players riding the bench. Even Though I get it, I don't agree with it.....The focus should have been to continue growing our youth, regardless of W's.

Not a fan of Randles game, at all, but there is no way he is going to the bench...He's the prize Front Office signing...

Most welcome change in Randle's game are the kickouts. Havent seen him drive into 3 defenders and force up a shot, lately. He's playing himself into being tradeable. Agree about playing the yoots. Fizdale will likely be replaced. He's just trying to keep his job.

awe1028 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

martin wrote:

awe1028 wrote:Fizdale has a lot of problems as a coach but chief among them is his refusal to commit fully to the young core. I have no problem with firing Fiz but unless the new coach commits fully the kids what's the point.

If the Knicks do pull the trigger and fire Fiz a coach that's interesting is Mike Miller. He has had much success in Westchester so he can coach (at least at the G League level). The other important point is that coaching in the G league has given him experience playing and developing young players. So playing and developing the young core with the knicks would not be foreign to him.

The willingness to play and develop young players should be high on the list when choosing the next coach and Miller would seem to fit the bill.

So what does Fully Commit to the kids mean to you? What would be different this year for Fiz to commit to the kids?

Well for one Mitch should be starting. A 34 year old Taj Gibson should not be starting over him.
Yes Mitch fouls a lot but if Fiz continues to start Randle even though he turns the ball over at a prodigious rate himself and bogs down the offense with his iso play he can start Mitch. Let Mitch play through the fouls He is a young player this is the way he will improve in that area.

He also justifies sitting Mitch by saying he wants spacing with on the court. If he is interested in someone to space the floor why not start Dotson who has proven to be a capable shooter instead of sitting Mitch for Gibson.

Then There is Trier. While Trier is not ready to start due to his iso style of play he should be getting ample minutes as a sixth man off the bench type. For a team that has often struggled to put the ball in the basket a player like Trier who has shown he is capable of getting buckets in bunches should not be glued to the bench

Finally Frank. Fizdale had no intention of giving Frank a chance until the fans turned on him. Given how Fiz has jerked Frank around in the past I am still not fully convinced he is committed to Frank as the starter. I know this is unfair to Fiz since Frank is starting now but I can't help but think that when Payton returns he will relegate Frank to the Bench. Again I admit this is probably unfair to say since there is no way of knowing if I am right until Payton returns.

You didn't really suggest anything different than is already happening. Mitch is not starting but he is getting as many minutes as his fouls allows and the team has a better rotation when he comes off bench. Mitch needs to earn that starting position and he hasn't.

Can't suggest giving Trier or Dot minutes without taking away some from RJ, plus both of those guys haven't really earned it. Same for Knox.

What are you saying not suggesting anything different. This is the lineup Fiz is starting:

Gibson
Randle
Morris
RJ
Frank

I am suggesting an almost completely different starting lineup featuring the kids

Mitch
Morris
RJ
Dotson
Frank

I am also suggesting that Fiz give Knox and Trier consistent minutes off the bench instead of gluing them to said bench as he is doing now

I'd like to add that while I agree with Fiz not starting Knox because of the defensive shortcomings, I would like to see him experiment with Knox at the four in spurts to see if that limits said defensive shortcomings.

Knox's defensive issues stems in large part from his lack of lateral quickness. Given this lack of lateral quickness Fiz should never be playing him at the 2 as he has done on occasions. Instead he should limit Knox at the 3 and experiment with him more at the four where is lack of lateral quickness is less of a hindrance.

Thats the lineup Id play too

You mind as well, unless you're still holding out for that magical playoff run.

The Knicks signed Randle like he is a part of the future. He just turned twenty five. He has an incredible ability to kill my passion for the Knicks and watching their games. But, his game was a bit better last night. I would like to see his role reigned in to one he could be successful in. Maybe that becomes easier when Elf is back. Randle might do better in a bench role. I also want to see Zo back in the rotation. As a rookie Zo was almost a 50-40-80 guy and the KNicks need scoring. Not sure what he needs to do on the court but if he is holding the ball too much or his d isn't good enough please hold some of the vets accountable as well.

Agreed with everything you are saying, especially getting Zo back in the rotation. For all of his faults, the one thing Zo does well is get buckets. Coming into last season, we had 3 good rookies that were going to be in the rotation. Knox won rookie of the month, Robinson was all second team and Zo was, at one point, one of the steals or hidden gems of the last years rookie crop.

Now, both Knox and Zo are collecting DNP's while players who dont figure to be a part of our future get mins over them. I get what the front office tried to do with this years roster in terms of trying to create the illusion that we are further along in our development than we are and if we fall short, flip 1 or 2 of the expiring deals into draft picks or young players riding the bench. Even Though I get it, I don't agree with it.....The focus should have been to continue growing our youth, regardless of W's.

Not a fan of Randles game, at all, but there is no way he is going to the bench...He's the prize Front Office signing...

Most welcome change in Randle's game are the kickouts. Havent seen him drive into 3 defenders and force up a shot, lately. He's playing himself into being tradeable. Agree about playing the yoots. Fizdale will likely be replaced. He's just trying to keep his job.

Ironically, if Fiz were to commit to playing the kids and giving them consistent minutes he would probably be able to keep his job. The fans would understand if the team was losing as long as the kids were being developed. However, his refusal to do what he was brought here to do - develop the kids is going to be his downfall.

Allanfan20 wrote:Again, nobody is crying if Fiz gets fired but who do you replace him with that will be better with this roster mid-season? Morris is our best scorer whether you like it or not. Randle is currently our most talented player whether you like it or not. You have to accept those realities. They are going to do what they do with the situation until RJ Barrett is ready to takeover, which he is not. Mitch is going to need to play whether he falls for the fakes or not.... but damn he has to stop. It’s absolutely ridiculous that he’s doing that. That’s partially where Fiz should be taking the blame too because that hurts our defense more than anything else. From this point forward, Mitch should be taken out every single time he falls for one, especially against a smart player like Embid.

Me, I'd go with Pitino. Sure, he's got baggage, but I think he probably has a major chip on his shoulder. He has experience with the college game, so that should help develop guys, and he has served in the past in the NBA and won, and won in NYC - with, I might argue, similar type talent and a very modern approach to the game.

I don't know what goes on behind the scenes in terms of develop and practice. I don't think any of us do, really.

I worry that simply benching guys (Knox) for not playing defense is not going to help if they haven't been worked with on the particulars of NBA defense.

And if we are suddenly benching Knox for no defense, where the hell was the coach with Randle and his 6 turn overs a game?

Maybe there is a double standard?