Jmpasq wrote:We don't even have a max cap slot for Kyrie if we extend Porzingis.
ian begly
"The Knicks have plenty of work to do in order to open a max salary slot for the Summer of 2019. They currently project to have $12 million in cap space in the 2019 offseason if they sign Kristaps Porzingis to a max extension this summer, per ESPN's Bobby Marks. This takes into account the salaries for their 2018 and (projected) 2019 first-round picks and presumes that they waive Lance Thomas, whose salary is guaranteed for $1 million if he's on the roster after June 30, 2019, per Marks. It also presumes that the Knicks renounce all of their rights to their own free agents in the summer of 2019. If the Knicks choose to wait until 2019 to extend Porzingis, they project to have $22 million in space in the scenario above. So they would still need to trade or waive one of the players under contract for 2019-2020 in order to afford a max free agent in 2019. The projected first-year salary for a max free agent with 7-9 years of service - like Kyrie Irving - is $32.7 million in 2019."

I kinda wish we had allowed Phil to trade KP.

We're looking at signing him to a cap crushing $150m extension without knowing where he can actually play an entire season without being winded after 20 games.

franco12 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:We don't even have a max cap slot for Kyrie if we extend Porzingis.
ian begly
"The Knicks have plenty of work to do in order to open a max salary slot for the Summer of 2019. They currently project to have $12 million in cap space in the 2019 offseason if they sign Kristaps Porzingis to a max extension this summer, per ESPN's Bobby Marks. This takes into account the salaries for their 2018 and (projected) 2019 first-round picks and presumes that they waive Lance Thomas, whose salary is guaranteed for $1 million if he's on the roster after June 30, 2019, per Marks. It also presumes that the Knicks renounce all of their rights to their own free agents in the summer of 2019. If the Knicks choose to wait until 2019 to extend Porzingis, they project to have $22 million in space in the scenario above. So they would still need to trade or waive one of the players under contract for 2019-2020 in order to afford a max free agent in 2019. The projected first-year salary for a max free agent with 7-9 years of service - like Kyrie Irving - is $32.7 million in 2019."

I kinda wish we had allowed Phil to trade KP.

We're looking at signing him to a cap crushing $150m extension without knowing where he can actually play an entire season without being winded after 20 games.

He would have traded him to Phoenix for the right to draft Josh Jackson. You never trade a player like this, franchise players are too hard to find. The injuries are a question mark, but bottom line is you have to take the gamble. You deal him and he goes onto great things, the franchise will take years and years to recover. Same idea with Philly committing to Embiid. He's more injury prone than Porzingis, but you simply have to commit.

knickstorrents wrote:The goal for any FA signing is to get a player below their market value. This is usually hard. Paying the max for Kyrie is not getting a player below their market value. Paying the max for someone like Lebron or Kawhi is.

Kyrie is a great player but has never played a full season in his 7 years in the league. He usually misses anywhere from 10-30 games:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/irvinky01.html

Anyway, he's a nice player but not for the Knicks in their current state. He'd be good for a playoff team looking to go to the next level, but not for us, the opportunity cost in terms of developing our own guys and maintaining cap for a true 2 way superstar is too great.

Kyrie is a SUPER STAR Hands down,

You can count on one hand the amount of players in the NBA that played all 82 games, especially when it comes to stars. Injuries happen all the time to anybody, and that can derail any plan you have in a major way.

we are trying to take it to the next level, when does that start, after 8 consecutive losing seasons?

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Panos wrote:This clip of plays from just one game is flat out incredible. This isn't someone just hoisting up volume 3pt or long range shots. He's taking it to the rim hard and scoring with hands in his face. Let some of that rub off on KP! I think the pairing would be outstanding.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Great, and it doesn't even address my question, much less answer it.

try asking a better question

So it's not ok to ask if he can play defense at a high level when considering him for the max contract?

That isnt what you are asking, so spare me... So its not ok to ask what imaginary players you would like to spend money on?

But yea... lets avoid signing chuckers like Kyrie so we can remain flexible to sign the guys you like who dont exist. Your position is clear.

Well, actually that is my position. You don't spend cap space just because u have it. I think staying flexible and waiting for the right type of player to hit the market us more prudent. I am very much focused on the long game.

Which players are you targeting for 2019, 2020, or 2021?

What I am preaching is flexibility and opportunism, it's the opposite of locking in on one or two players and then outbidding ourselves to make it happen. That last part is how the Knicks have operated for the last several years. If Kwahi becomes an FA or Klay can be traded for, I would definitely jump on it, but I would also make sure I am not overpaying. There's always going to be some "star player" wanting to move. I just want to get the ones that fit our proclaimed team philosophy.

Who are the players you are targeting and what is your plan to get them? YOu want Klay but dont want to overpay... is this your first 10 minutes following the NBA? Its a talent driven league. Its why teams throw money at any turd with upside, because high end NBA talent is so hard to acquire. Do you understand this? I am great with you having an alternate plan worth discussing... but flexibility and opportunism are not a plan.

If you are going to push back against signing one of the league's best players at 26 I would hope something better than flexibility and opportunism.

Jmpasq.. Kanter walks, Mudiay walks, stretch Noah.... they can sigh Kyrie pretty easily. You max out KP immediatly after Kyrie signs. This saves you the diff on KP's cap hold vs. the actual deal he gets.

knickstorrents wrote:I'm not hearing any compelling arguments to sign Kyrie. I hear guys saying we need to sign him because he wants to come, because he's a FA that's worth the max, etc. But the way to win in this league is to sign guys who are worth more than the max for the max. Getting Kyrie here we'd be a middling playoff team and we'd be stuck in a cycle of bad draft picks and 1st-2nd round playoff exits. We'd be mediocre. I'd rather be really bad for a long enough time where we can have enough assets to get multiple max players, or hit on the draft a few times where we can get 2-3 very good 2 way players on rookie scale contracts.

The goal is to win a championship, not be mediocre. With Kyrie and our current roster of players, we'd be mediocre with no chance to win a championship.

You are 100% wrong. The way to win in this league is to stock pile talented players and impact players.

Lets flip it. What is your compelling argument for passing on him? What is your plan to build a winning? How are you acquiring the top tier talent?

fishmike wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:I'm not hearing any compelling arguments to sign Kyrie. I hear guys saying we need to sign him because he wants to come, because he's a FA that's worth the max, etc. But the way to win in this league is to sign guys who are worth more than the max for the max. Getting Kyrie here we'd be a middling playoff team and we'd be stuck in a cycle of bad draft picks and 1st-2nd round playoff exits. We'd be mediocre. I'd rather be really bad for a long enough time where we can have enough assets to get multiple max players, or hit on the draft a few times where we can get 2-3 very good 2 way players on rookie scale contracts.

The goal is to win a championship, not be mediocre. With Kyrie and our current roster of players, we'd be mediocre with no chance to win a championship.

Maybe stop reading and go watch Kyrie vs. the Warriors last time the lost in the finals.

You are 100% wrong. The way to win in this league is to stock pile talented players and impact players.

Lets flip it. What is your compelling argument for passing on him? What is your plan to build a winning? How are you acquiring the top tier talent?

My plan is to stay the course until Lebron and Golden State deteriorate. We need to get lucky with draft picks, we need to be opportunistic in absorbing some questionable contracts for more picks, and we need to strike when the time is right. Our team is not in the state where Kyrie will bring us over the top. It will only get us to the middle. In the meantime we need to accumulate assets. See what the Celtics and the Rockets and the Warriors have done, and see what the Lakers are doing. The timing is not right for us, we got hosed by Melo and Phil Jackson made some bad signings. At least we have our draft picks now, but we need more, and we need to draft really well to have a shot.

Just because you want a championship doesn't mean you will get one, or deserve one. Wanting it doesn't make it happen, same as signing Kyrie. The timing is not right yet, we're not ready and yes it's been a while but that's because we made horrible decisions for many years.

BTW Kyrie did really well against the Warriors that year, he also had Lebron with him and even still I think what they did was a once in a lifetime event. They got very lucky AND they had the best player on the planet. BTW, the best player on the planet isn't Kyrie :)

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Panos wrote:This clip of plays from just one game is flat out incredible. This isn't someone just hoisting up volume 3pt or long range shots. He's taking it to the rim hard and scoring with hands in his face. Let some of that rub off on KP! I think the pairing would be outstanding.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Great, and it doesn't even address my question, much less answer it.

try asking a better question

So it's not ok to ask if he can play defense at a high level when considering him for the max contract?

That isnt what you are asking, so spare me... So its not ok to ask what imaginary players you would like to spend money on?

But yea... lets avoid signing chuckers like Kyrie so we can remain flexible to sign the guys you like who dont exist. Your position is clear.

Well, actually that is my position. You don't spend cap space just because u have it. I think staying flexible and waiting for the right type of player to hit the market us more prudent. I am very much focused on the long game.

Which players are you targeting for 2019, 2020, or 2021?

What I am preaching is flexibility and opportunism, it's the opposite of locking in on one or two players and then outbidding ourselves to make it happen. That last part is how the Knicks have operated for the last several years. If Kwahi becomes an FA or Klay can be traded for, I would definitely jump on it, but I would also make sure I am not overpaying. There's always going to be some "star player" wanting to move. I just want to get the ones that fit our proclaimed team philosophy.

flexibility and opportunism are going to yield a better player than Irving? How? You have no plan. Those are cute ideas. How are you molding them into an elite NBA team? Maybe provide an example of the kind of trade or move you are looking to make? Like hey.. Team X did this and now look at them... thats what I want to do.

Who are the players you are targeting and what is your plan to get them? YOu want Klay but dont want to overpay... is this your first 10 minutes following the NBA? Its a talent driven league. Its why teams throw money at any turd with upside, because high end NBA talent is so hard to acquire. Do you understand this? I am great with you having an alternate plan worth discussing... but flexibility and opportunism are not a plan.

If you are going to push back against signing one of the league's best players at 26 I would hope something better than flexibility and opportunism.

Jmpasq.. Kanter walks, Mudiay walks, stretch Noah.... they can sigh Kyrie pretty easily. You max out KP immediatly after Kyrie signs. This saves you the diff on KP's cap hold vs. the actual deal he gets.

The "plan" is not doing the same stupid things we keep doing. That is the plan
Every chucker that becomes available and wants to exploit the NY Media grabs the imagination of fans who starts making the cases for hon to be the ONLY way we can get better. This is classic Knicks fan bullshyt. You already know that the well run franchises don't overpay for one dimensional talent and get there by doing that. We have already overpayed for McDyess, Curry, Amare, Melo, Noah ...everyone of these turds had some level of fan support as "Max players" or "near Max players"-- and the results speak for themselves.

Fantasizing about a set of named players becoming Knicks isn't planning, its starfukking.

When in a hole, don't keep digging.

Would you or knickstorrents sign any player in FA to improve the team? Or is it dont bother until Lebron gets old... I mean when are the Knicks allowed to start winning games? Guys on the roster want to know

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Panos wrote:This clip of plays from just one game is flat out incredible. This isn't someone just hoisting up volume 3pt or long range shots. He's taking it to the rim hard and scoring with hands in his face. Let some of that rub off on KP! I think the pairing would be outstanding.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Great, and it doesn't even address my question, much less answer it.

try asking a better question

So it's not ok to ask if he can play defense at a high level when considering him for the max contract?

That isnt what you are asking, so spare me... So its not ok to ask what imaginary players you would like to spend money on?

But yea... lets avoid signing chuckers like Kyrie so we can remain flexible to sign the guys you like who dont exist. Your position is clear.

Well, actually that is my position. You don't spend cap space just because u have it. I think staying flexible and waiting for the right type of player to hit the market us more prudent. I am very much focused on the long game.

Which players are you targeting for 2019, 2020, or 2021?

What I am preaching is flexibility and opportunism, it's the opposite of locking in on one or two players and then outbidding ourselves to make it happen. That last part is how the Knicks have operated for the last several years. If Kwahi becomes an FA or Klay can be traded for, I would definitely jump on it, but I would also make sure I am not overpaying. There's always going to be some "star player" wanting to move. I just want to get the ones that fit our proclaimed team philosophy.

flexibility and opportunism are going to yield a better player than Irving? How? You have no plan. Those are cute ideas. How are you molding them into an elite NBA team? Maybe provide an example of the kind of trade or move you are looking to make? Like hey.. Team X did this and now look at them... thats what I want to do.

Who are the players you are targeting and what is your plan to get them? YOu want Klay but dont want to overpay... is this your first 10 minutes following the NBA? Its a talent driven league. Its why teams throw money at any turd with upside, because high end NBA talent is so hard to acquire. Do you understand this? I am great with you having an alternate plan worth discussing... but flexibility and opportunism are not a plan.

If you are going to push back against signing one of the league's best players at 26 I would hope something better than flexibility and opportunism.

Jmpasq.. Kanter walks, Mudiay walks, stretch Noah.... they can sigh Kyrie pretty easily. You max out KP immediatly after Kyrie signs. This saves you the diff on KP's cap hold vs. the actual deal he gets.

The "plan" is not doing the same stupid things we keep doing. That is the plan
Every chucker that becomes available and wants to exploit the NY Media grabs the imagination of fans who starts making the cases for hon to be the ONLY way we can get better. This is classic Knicks fan bullshyt. You already know that the well run franchises don't overpay for one dimensional talent and get there by doing that. We have already overpayed for McDyess, Curry, Amare, Melo, Noah ...everyone of these turds had some level of fan support as "Max players" or "near Max players"-- and the results speak for themselves.

Fantasizing about a set of named players becoming Knicks isn't planning, its starfukking.

When in a hole, don't keep digging.

So you think Irving is just another "McDyess, Curry, Amare, Melo, Noah" ? Yea?

Would you or knickstorrents sign any player in FA to improve the team? Or is it dont bother until Lebron gets old... I mean when are the Knicks allowed to start winning games? Guys on the roster want to know

Yes, I think Kyrie is another injury prone one dimensional player along the lines of the ones mentioned above. I also think I have explained multiple times I want two way players with high IQ - if you didn't get the message scroll back and read again. I have also stated that naming or fixating on certain names is the exact opposite of what I want the Knicks to do. Sounds like you are just recycling the same three questions one atr a time. What else ya got?

[...BTW waiting for one of the trolls to jump on this and pretend I am comparing Kyrie to Eddiy Curry in terms of their impact to the game or scoring or all star status or some other imaginary bull****...]

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Panos wrote:This clip of plays from just one game is flat out incredible. This isn't someone just hoisting up volume 3pt or long range shots. He's taking it to the rim hard and scoring with hands in his face. Let some of that rub off on KP! I think the pairing would be outstanding.

meloshouldgo wrote:

fishmike wrote:
But I guess now Kyrie is just a dumb scorer. Yea.. lets pass.

This is not Melo

Knicks are building a supporting cast of athletic smart guys. Fans dont want to add one of the leagues best scorers?

While some guys are talking if Kyrie makes sense the rest of us can watch him win game 7 by lighting up GS best defenders. Kyrie made Klay and Draymond look like Melo and Afflalo

I would like to add a scorer that's as committed to defense as he is to scoring. Would you say Kyrie is and elite or an above average defender?

Great, and it doesn't even address my question, much less answer it.

try asking a better question

So it's not ok to ask if he can play defense at a high level when considering him for the max contract?

That isnt what you are asking, so spare me... So its not ok to ask what imaginary players you would like to spend money on?

But yea... lets avoid signing chuckers like Kyrie so we can remain flexible to sign the guys you like who dont exist. Your position is clear.

Well, actually that is my position. You don't spend cap space just because u have it. I think staying flexible and waiting for the right type of player to hit the market us more prudent. I am very much focused on the long game.

Which players are you targeting for 2019, 2020, or 2021?

What I am preaching is flexibility and opportunism, it's the opposite of locking in on one or two players and then outbidding ourselves to make it happen. That last part is how the Knicks have operated for the last several years. If Kwahi becomes an FA or Klay can be traded for, I would definitely jump on it, but I would also make sure I am not overpaying. There's always going to be some "star player" wanting to move. I just want to get the ones that fit our proclaimed team philosophy.

flexibility and opportunism are going to yield a better player than Irving? How? You have no plan. Those are cute ideas. How are you molding them into an elite NBA team? Maybe provide an example of the kind of trade or move you are looking to make? Like hey.. Team X did this and now look at them... thats what I want to do.

Who are the players you are targeting and what is your plan to get them? YOu want Klay but dont want to overpay... is this your first 10 minutes following the NBA? Its a talent driven league. Its why teams throw money at any turd with upside, because high end NBA talent is so hard to acquire. Do you understand this? I am great with you having an alternate plan worth discussing... but flexibility and opportunism are not a plan.

If you are going to push back against signing one of the league's best players at 26 I would hope something better than flexibility and opportunism.

Jmpasq.. Kanter walks, Mudiay walks, stretch Noah.... they can sigh Kyrie pretty easily. You max out KP immediatly after Kyrie signs. This saves you the diff on KP's cap hold vs. the actual deal he gets.

The "plan" is not doing the same stupid things we keep doing. That is the plan
Every chucker that becomes available and wants to exploit the NY Media grabs the imagination of fans who starts making the cases for hon to be the ONLY way we can get better. This is classic Knicks fan bullshyt. You already know that the well run franchises don't overpay for one dimensional talent and get there by doing that. We have already overpayed for McDyess, Curry, Amare, Melo, Noah ...everyone of these turds had some level of fan support as "Max players" or "near Max players"-- and the results speak for themselves.

Fantasizing about a set of named players becoming Knicks isn't planning, its starfukking.

When in a hole, don't keep digging.

knickstorrents wrote:Just because I have money doesn't mean I have to spend it. That cap space can be used to facilitate trades to get draft picks, not just sign free agents. I'd rather we accumulate talent at this point. If we had 2 slots and could get Lebron AND Kawhi then it's worth it. Otherwise no.

Who they should concentrate on signing are 5 star bench players who can spell the starting five when injuries occur.