meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:The team needs help but I don't see PG being a big issue. For a team that needs help at the PG position, see the Cavs.

As for glaring deficiencies I don't see things I'm too unhappy with. Maybe better length/athleticism at the 3, and better bench scoring, and of course we can always use better rebounders. But overall I'm fine with how the Knicks are performing at this point. This will be a journey and right now the important thing is that the brass at the top have a consistent vision they are building towards and we have players who communicate and play well with one another.

Please, let's stop it with the need for some kind of explosive score first PG. This is such an antiquated way of thinking. Slashing, cutting, multiple passes, pressuring the defense. There is great value in making the defense work on possessions and tiring the opposing team out. Let's stop with the score first pg fool's gold that isn't effective in today's nba.

Strawman argument. Few, if any here are pushing for a score first PG, most were happy to see Rose go. Most are arguing for a PG who can get to the rim. Reasons to do that other than scoring.

Point Guards who can't make a layup with some consistency is a problem for any team. No tactical advantage to that. Again, doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Our PGs are contributing in other ways, doesn't mean there isnt room for improvement at that position. Cant go into next season with the same problem.

There's a lot of people pushing for score first PGs, even if you are not. I think a large body of the discussion has been about production from the PG spot and mostly about points being scored.

Not so much "score first" but score more. A happy median between score first and gun shy. Don't believe we need a score first PG, just one who does a better job of taking what the defense gives him. Don't really have that right now.

Our PGs pass on too many opportunities to score. Just makes it harder on their teammates. You can tell teams are scouting Frank now, they are anticipating a pass when he drives, they are playing the passing lanes closer, and forcing turnovers. One area affects another, and another.

Yes, and he is stil a 19 year old kid playing his sixteenth game in the NBA. I definitely want to see him develop that part of his game, but I want no part of any discussion to upgrade at PG that would take minutes away from him. And from my POV it doesn't matter whether we make it to the playoffs this year or not.

Im sorry, but being 19 is not an excuse in this sport, in this league. Frank's game in that dept is years behind players the same age, from the US, and abroad. Being ahead in other areas does not cancel that fact out.

If we were talking about Frank playing the 2, relying on jumpers more, that would be different.
I disagree that this season is mostly about Frank. There is too much talent on this squad not to be trying to make the playoffs. Give Frank the same minutes, but try to upgrade the position, by moving Sessions. Or draft another PG this summer. I believe the point is that this situation cant continue into next season, one way or another.

Perry might be able to move a PG (Baker or Sessions) and bring in another (3 team trade), without cutting into Frank's minutes.

meloshouldgo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

New York struggled all night to contain Schroder, who easily weaved through the lane and around the baseline to keep the Hawks' passing game fluid. The fourth-year point guard finished with eight assists, and often whipped the ball around to set up assists.

"Schroder does a great job coming off those pick-and-rolls," Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said. "And he's got a lot of hesitation and he's able to find their bigs. Other times, when we did help out properly and stop him, he made great passes."

like I said, if we have a pg like this, it would open up the perimeter for guys like lance, thj, and MCd to shoot more 3's, kanter would get a slew of uncontested dunks and layups from the penetration alone, plus unlimited P&R play, and kp would thrive even more..

ATL drafted and developed him over 4 years. His rookie yr he put up 3.7pts 1.9ast 38fg% on 13.6mins per game.

Was about to post the exact same thing, thank you.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

New York struggled all night to contain Schroder, who easily weaved through the lane and around the baseline to keep the Hawks' passing game fluid. The fourth-year point guard finished with eight assists, and often whipped the ball around to set up assists.

"Schroder does a great job coming off those pick-and-rolls," Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said. "And he's got a lot of hesitation and he's able to find their bigs. Other times, when we did help out properly and stop him, he made great passes."

like I said, if we have a pg like this, it would open up the perimeter for guys like lance, thj, and MCd to shoot more 3's, kanter would get a slew of uncontested dunks and layups from the penetration alone, plus unlimited P&R play, and kp would thrive even more..

ATL drafted and developed him over 4 years. His rookie yr he put up 3.7pts 1.9ast 38fg% on 13.6mins per game.

I mean there was no rush, they had Teague and was winning. Now he's developed and the team is in complete rebuild mode.

We need a pg that's on KP, kanter's and THJ timeline. Frank is 3 yrs away, unless he takes a giant leap in his development. The knicks are not great at developing. Remember, KP and THJ took giant steps in their development and that had nothing to do with the knicks trainers, they took baby steps under the knicks development.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:The team needs help but I don't see PG being a big issue. For a team that needs help at the PG position, see the Cavs.

As for glaring deficiencies I don't see things I'm too unhappy with. Maybe better length/athleticism at the 3, and better bench scoring, and of course we can always use better rebounders. But overall I'm fine with how the Knicks are performing at this point. This will be a journey and right now the important thing is that the brass at the top have a consistent vision they are building towards and we have players who communicate and play well with one another.

Please, let's stop it with the need for some kind of explosive score first PG. This is such an antiquated way of thinking. Slashing, cutting, multiple passes, pressuring the defense. There is great value in making the defense work on possessions and tiring the opposing team out. Let's stop with the score first pg fool's gold that isn't effective in today's nba.

Strawman argument. Few, if any here are pushing for a score first PG, most were happy to see Rose go. Most are arguing for a PG who can get to the rim. Reasons to do that other than scoring.

Point Guards who can't make a layup with some consistency is a problem for any team. No tactical advantage to that. Again, doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Our PGs are contributing in other ways, doesn't mean there isnt room for improvement at that position. Cant go into next season with the same problem.

There's a lot of people pushing for score first PGs, even if you are not. I think a large body of the discussion has been about production from the PG spot and mostly about points being scored.

Not so much "score first" but score more. A happy median between score first and gun shy. Don't believe we need a score first PG, just one who does a better job of taking what the defense gives him. Don't really have that right now.

Our PGs pass on too many opportunities to score. Just makes it harder on their teammates. You can tell teams are scouting Frank now, they are anticipating a pass when he drives, they are playing the passing lanes closer, and forcing turnovers. One area affects another, and another.

Yes, and he is stil a 19 year old kid playing his sixteenth game in the NBA. I definitely want to see him develop that part of his game, but I want no part of any discussion to upgrade at PG that would take minutes away from him. And from my POV it doesn't matter whether we make it to the playoffs this year or not.

Im sorry, but being 19 is not an excuse in this sport, in this league. Frank's game in that dept is years behind players the same age, from the US, and abroad. Being ahead in other areas does not cancel that fact out.

If we were talking about Frank playing the 2, relying on jumpers more, that would be different.
I disagree that this season is mostly about Frank. There is too much talent on this squad not to be trying to make the playoffs. Give Frank the same minutes, but try to upgrade the position, by moving Sessions. Or draft another PG this summer. I believe the point is that this situation cant continue into next season, one way or another.

Perry might be able to move a PG (Baker or Sessions) and bring in another (3 team trade), without cutting into Frank's minutes.

How can you say being 19 is not an excuse. It's part of the reason he was picked so high. His malleability makes him intriguing. As for our talent, our stats so far are that of a .500 team. And that's without taking our home/road schedule into account. We're still evaluating what we are as a team and I don't feel comfortable giving away assets until I know what I have. I can say we're not a PG away from being serious threats right now, so I'd rather see Frank develop. I agree that the summer is the time for us to make any evaluations..

If you are 19, and your skill set is a few years behind PGs the same age, age really isnt a factor, right? Frank was picked so high because Phil wanted him for the Triangle. Where Frank would have been picked beyond 8 is anyone's guess.

Not talking about wholesale changes right now. As I said upthread, would like to see the Knicks getting a PG who does a better job of taking what the defense gives him. A veteran with more in tank. Or give Burke a shot. Sounds like he's been working hard at a comeback.

knicks1248 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

New York struggled all night to contain Schroder, who easily weaved through the lane and around the baseline to keep the Hawks' passing game fluid. The fourth-year point guard finished with eight assists, and often whipped the ball around to set up assists.

"Schroder does a great job coming off those pick-and-rolls," Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said. "And he's got a lot of hesitation and he's able to find their bigs. Other times, when we did help out properly and stop him, he made great passes."

like I said, if we have a pg like this, it would open up the perimeter for guys like lance, thj, and MCd to shoot more 3's, kanter would get a slew of uncontested dunks and layups from the penetration alone, plus unlimited P&R play, and kp would thrive even more..

ATL drafted and developed him over 4 years. His rookie yr he put up 3.7pts 1.9ast 38fg% on 13.6mins per game.

I mean there was no rush, they had Teague and was winning. Now he's developed and the team is in complete rebuild mode.

We need a pg that's on KP, kanter's and THJ timeline. Frank is 3 yrs away, unless he takes a giant leap in his development. The knicks are not great at developing. Remember, KP and THJ took giant steps in their development and that had nothing to do with the knicks trainers, they took baby steps under the knicks development.

You aren't getting a young upcoming PG like Shroeder unless you draft and development yourself. We don't know what Knicks development skills actually are because we never develop. If KP makes it through this season without getting traded(I'm sure he wont be). He would be the first lotto pick to play 3 full seasons with the Knicks since Kenny Walker in 1986. David Lee lasting 5 years is the longest we have kept a draft pick before trading him since Charlie Ward.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:The team needs help but I don't see PG being a big issue. For a team that needs help at the PG position, see the Cavs.

As for glaring deficiencies I don't see things I'm too unhappy with. Maybe better length/athleticism at the 3, and better bench scoring, and of course we can always use better rebounders. But overall I'm fine with how the Knicks are performing at this point. This will be a journey and right now the important thing is that the brass at the top have a consistent vision they are building towards and we have players who communicate and play well with one another.

Please, let's stop it with the need for some kind of explosive score first PG. This is such an antiquated way of thinking. Slashing, cutting, multiple passes, pressuring the defense. There is great value in making the defense work on possessions and tiring the opposing team out. Let's stop with the score first pg fool's gold that isn't effective in today's nba.

Strawman argument. Few, if any here are pushing for a score first PG, most were happy to see Rose go. Most are arguing for a PG who can get to the rim. Reasons to do that other than scoring.

Point Guards who can't make a layup with some consistency is a problem for any team. No tactical advantage to that. Again, doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Our PGs are contributing in other ways, doesn't mean there isnt room for improvement at that position. Cant go into next season with the same problem.

There's a lot of people pushing for score first PGs, even if you are not. I think a large body of the discussion has been about production from the PG spot and mostly about points being scored.

Not so much "score first" but score more. A happy median between score first and gun shy. Don't believe we need a score first PG, just one who does a better job of taking what the defense gives him. Don't really have that right now.

Our PGs pass on too many opportunities to score. Just makes it harder on their teammates. You can tell teams are scouting Frank now, they are anticipating a pass when he drives, they are playing the passing lanes closer, and forcing turnovers. One area affects another, and another.

Yes, and he is stil a 19 year old kid playing his sixteenth game in the NBA. I definitely want to see him develop that part of his game, but I want no part of any discussion to upgrade at PG that would take minutes away from him. And from my POV it doesn't matter whether we make it to the playoffs this year or not.

Im sorry, but being 19 is not an excuse in this sport, in this league. Frank's game in that dept is years behind players the same age, from the US, and abroad. Being ahead in other areas does not cancel that fact out.

If we were talking about Frank playing the 2, relying on jumpers more, that would be different.
I disagree that this season is mostly about Frank. There is too much talent on this squad not to be trying to make the playoffs. Give Frank the same minutes, but try to upgrade the position, by moving Sessions. Or draft another PG this summer. I believe the point is that this situation cant continue into next season, one way or another.

Perry might be able to move a PG (Baker or Sessions) and bring in another (3 team trade), without cutting into Frank's minutes.

How can you say being 19 is not an excuse. It's part of the reason he was picked so high. His malleability makes him intriguing. As for our talent, our stats so far are that of a .500 team. And that's without taking our home/road schedule into account. We're still evaluating what we are as a team and I don't feel comfortable giving away assets until I know what I have. I can say we're not a PG away from being serious threats right now, so I'd rather see Frank develop. I agree that the summer is the time for us to make any evaluations..

If you are 19, and your skill set is a few years behind PGs the same age, age really isnt a factor, right? Frank was picked so high because Phil wanted him for the Triangle. Where Frank would have been picked beyond 8 is anyone's guess.

Not talking about wholesale changes right now. As I said upthread, would like to see the Knicks getting a PG who does a better job of taking what the defense gives him. A veteran with more in tank. Or give Burke a shot. Sounds like he's been working hard at a comeback.

His skills set is behind many college freshman? Can you really say that? Frank was picked so high because he showed tremendous potential as a two-way point guard. Frank will improve. If you think Trey burke, or cat barber or whoever will take us to the next level, then sure, go ahead. I don't see it, but those guys cost nothing. Real difference makers are going to cost real assets. We shouldn't make those type of moves now until we're done evaluating, or we're blown away with an offer.

Poor choice of words on my part. I should have said "particular" skill set, namely getting to the rim, collapsing the D, drawing fouls, etc. When it come to getting to the rim, absolutely Frank is years behind his peers. Not saying its a permanent condition, but one that we shouldn't wait on improving. Knicks should find a PG who can get some buckets as well as keeping the ball moving. Would be good for Frank to have a player like that on the squad to watch. You can mentor by talking, can also mentor by doing.