meloshouldgo wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:It's a fact that the oppressors always think it's not as bad as the oppressed think. To all my brethren who believe it's not as bad need to come live in the south for a few months.

I don't think it's the 1960s down here, but it's definitely not 2017.

And if I can experience and be disgusted by white coworkers getting preferential treatment at work Because I'm not white, I can only imagine what the black population at my job goes through.

It's obvious that they routinely get the shorter end of the stick compared to other races.

Let's not talk about exceptions please.

When we see the private sector flush with non-white CEOs, then I'll believe that the opportunity is pretty much the same.

You might be right. It might be worse than the oppressors think but the bottom line is all peoples can pull together and do a better for themselves. Everyone should ask themselves what can I/we do better for our selves and our peoples.

This is the point Briggs, Akrud and others are trying to make I believe. Asians, Muslims, Jews you name it face bigger hurdles than present day African Americas. They weren't fortunate to be born on the shinny house on the Hill that is the USA. Majority don't speak the language, huge hurdles that prevents many from improving their families quality of life ever. However, they pull through for themselves and their families. They may not be afforded all the senior positions in their companies either but they don't hold press conferences that essentially chalk up their misfortunes to to systemic anything nor do they ever in any way blame other races. If some of them do it is never the first thing that crosses their mind.

This a perfect example of how and why racism is enabled in America. I am neither black, nor white and I am one of those immigrants he speaks of and nothing could be further from the truth.

He is acknowledging the barriers exist then he is indulging in pure sophistry to make it sound like pointing out the existence of the barriers is an act of weakness by black Americans and instead of showing even a shred of remorse or accountability he is positiining the argument to say it's ok for the barriers to exist and people need to suck it up and keep going. This in a nutshell is the essence of enabling racism in America today.

It is OK for Law of Gravitation to exist...
You can deny it and jump from the building... and brake you legs.
Isn't it the same with denying the laws of the society and nature of human beings?
Barriers do exist and we have to live through this fact and do the best to make barriers into discoveries.
As the society evolves and people of various races, nations, religions are merged in one culture the barriers will slowly dissolve.
But this is much longer process that human lifetime.

arkrud wrote:I can understand why African Americans are angry at government, unfair low-enforcement, bios against blacks, instances of racism, history of oppression and mistreatment.
I cannot understand why every person who considered "white" is to blame...
I cannot understand what "white" actually is.
Are Asians white? Are Jews white? Are Latinos white? If this is the case it is not the color or other physical differences.
Asians, Latinos, and Jews can be as black or even more black that AA...
Are "whites" a group of descendants of European settlers who colonized America mostly leaving in South and are reach and influential?
Then how to identify them?
I guess I am lost...

who made that statement?

arkrud wrote:I can understand why African Americans are angry at government, unfair low-enforcement, bios against blacks, instances of racism, history of oppression and mistreatment.
I cannot understand why every person who considered "white" is to blame...
I cannot understand what "white" actually is.
Are Asians white? Are Jews white? Are Latinos white? If this is the case it is not the color or other physical differences.
Asians, Latinos, and Jews can be as black or even more black that AA...
Are "whites" a group of descendants of European settlers who colonized America mostly leaving in South and are reach and influential?
Then how to identify them?
I guess I am lost...

This is necessary dialog. As its understandable how people don't want to be lumped in the group of decision makers who have done the things they have done. But you also have to understand that people unknowingly &/or knowingly but just don't care enable these decisions. Basically when the common narrative is that a race of people as a whole only aren't as successful as they should be. Because they haven't worked as hard as they should. And have been too busy crying about their struggle. Even If they aren't the ones to make those decisions. They are the ones that gives those decisions the support and power it needs. Every time America was able to have progressive movements was when Americans stood together to show it wasn't acceptable.

I will give you a direct example. Within the war on drugs. 100 grams of cocaine equaled the same sentence as 1 gram of crack. This was installed this way because the poor and black were far and wide more likely to be in possession of crack then cocaine. Judges were then allowed to add excessive amount of prison time if you refused a plea deal. You could have been completely innocent but not trust the system enough and be scared by the maximum amount of years and take the plea deal. None of that is just and was specifically designed to lock up people of color. Complaints by blacks about this system though went on def ears to stand together with other Americans and fight flat out injustice. Instead the narratives of blacks being lazy, uneducated, predictors was the preferred narrative. So when you know the system is rigged against you. And you know your fellow Americans aren't going to bat for you. Whats going to happen is eventually you are going to start to embrace that identity.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/30/us/black-privilege/index.html
This is the type of logic that allows the decision makers to divide and conquer.

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

arkrud wrote:I can understand why African Americans are angry at government, unfair low-enforcement, bios against blacks, instances of racism, history of oppression and mistreatment.
I cannot understand why every person who considered "white" is to blame...
I cannot understand what "white" actually is.
Are Asians white? Are Jews white? Are Latinos white? If this is the case it is not the color or other physical differences.
Asians, Latinos, and Jews can be as black or even more black that AA...
Are "whites" a group of descendants of European settlers who colonized America mostly leaving in South and are reach and influential?
Then how to identify them?
I guess I am lost...

who made that statement?

It's called self guilt. If you feel guilty about something, it doesn't matter how many times people say it's not your fault. That one time when someone says it's your fault, it speaks loud. This is a human flaw. I have the same issue with success and failure. I can make 100 jumpers in a row....but my turnovers or missed shots will speak louder than my successful shots or plays.

So if I have a big nose and curly hire I am a Jew and so responsible for "drinking the blood of christian infants" and supporting decisions of Sion Elders?
If my skin is white, I am skinny, and light white hair I am and Arian and so is responsible for holocaust and WW2, for slavery, and the eradication of Native Americans?
In fact I do not have any guilt for what I haven't done and never supported. Why would I?
Everyone have to be judged by his own deeds not for the deeds of anyone alike.
There is no group responsibility. It is ALWAYS only personal responsibility.
And there are no group excuses. There are ALWAYS only personal excuses.

arkrud wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

arkrud wrote:I can understand why African Americans are angry at government, unfair low-enforcement, bios against blacks, instances of racism, history of oppression and mistreatment.
I cannot understand why every person who considered "white" is to blame...
I cannot understand what "white" actually is.
Are Asians white? Are Jews white? Are Latinos white? If this is the case it is not the color or other physical differences.
Asians, Latinos, and Jews can be as black or even more black that AA...
Are "whites" a group of descendants of European settlers who colonized America mostly leaving in South and are reach and influential?
Then how to identify them?
I guess I am lost...

who made that statement?

It's called self guilt. If you feel guilty about something, it doesn't matter how many times people say it's not your fault. That one time when someone says it's your fault, it speaks loud. This is a human flaw. I have the same issue with success and failure. I can make 100 jumpers in a row....but my turnovers or missed shots will speak louder than my successful shots or plays.

So if I have a big nose and curly hire I am a Jew and so responsible for "drinking the blood of christian infants" and supporting decisions of Sion Elders?
If my skin is white, I am skinny, and light white hair I am and Arian and so is responsible for holocaust and WW2, for slavery, and the eradication of Native Americans?
In fact I do not have any guilt for what I haven't done and never supported. Why would I?
Everyone have to be judged by his own deeds not for the deeds of anyone alike.
There is no group responsibility. It is ALWAYS only personal responsibility.
And there are no group excuses. There are ALWAYS only personal excuses.

Yeah but white people have held down people of color for a long time and you reap the "privileges" in other words if we are playing a videogame your character has +1 to damage and +1 to defense while a black person has -1 to damage and -1 to defense to start the game. And while you guys are arguing about why he started the game with less and you more the Asian person who started -1 to damage just leveled up twice to +2 to damage.

But seriously I think most white people understand that there still is racism on different levels and scales but at the same time we have people like Obama and Neil DeGrasse Tyson and a whole slew of successful black people and yes they had to work harder because they were black and there are still hurdles that black people face in this country and the world for that matter but at the same time you have SOME black people that complain all day long how the man holds them down while they are just sitting on there ass not doing **** and the white people that call this **** out are automatically labeled racists and as a result white people have just thrown their hands in the air.

Stevo718 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

arkrud wrote:I can understand why African Americans are angry at government, unfair low-enforcement, bios against blacks, instances of racism, history of oppression and mistreatment.
I cannot understand why every person who considered "white" is to blame...
I cannot understand what "white" actually is.
Are Asians white? Are Jews white? Are Latinos white? If this is the case it is not the color or other physical differences.
Asians, Latinos, and Jews can be as black or even more black that AA...
Are "whites" a group of descendants of European settlers who colonized America mostly leaving in South and are reach and influential?
Then how to identify them?
I guess I am lost...

who made that statement?

It's called self guilt. If you feel guilty about something, it doesn't matter how many times people say it's not your fault. That one time when someone says it's your fault, it speaks loud. This is a human flaw. I have the same issue with success and failure. I can make 100 jumpers in a row....but my turnovers or missed shots will speak louder than my successful shots or plays.

So if I have a big nose and curly hire I am a Jew and so responsible for "drinking the blood of christian infants" and supporting decisions of Sion Elders?
If my skin is white, I am skinny, and light white hair I am and Arian and so is responsible for holocaust and WW2, for slavery, and the eradication of Native Americans?
In fact I do not have any guilt for what I haven't done and never supported. Why would I?
Everyone have to be judged by his own deeds not for the deeds of anyone alike.
There is no group responsibility. It is ALWAYS only personal responsibility.
And there are no group excuses. There are ALWAYS only personal excuses.

Yeah but white people have held down people of color for a long time and you reap the "privileges" in other words if we are playing a videogame your character has +1 to damage and +1 to defense while a black person has -1 to damage and -1 to defense to start the game. And while you guys are arguing about why he started the game with less and you more the Asian person who started -1 to damage just leveled up twice to +2 to damage.

But seriously I think most white people understand that there still is racism on different levels and scales but at the same time we have people like Obama and Neil DeGrasse Tyson and a whole slew of successful black people and yes they had to work harder because they were black and there are still hurdles that black people face in this country and the world for that matter but at the same time you have SOME black people that complain all day long how the man holds them down while they are just sitting on there ass not doing **** and the white people that call this **** out are automatically labeled racists and as a result white people have just thrown their hands in the air.

One doesnt justify the other. Even if every African American felt this way and did nothing. It wouldn't justify systematic racism. There would be no need for it if AAs were just going to fail on their own due to lazyness.

If you believe that the starting point it was only -1. Then you are very much mistaken.

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:I can understand why African Americans are angry at government, unfair low-enforcement, bios against blacks, instances of racism, history of oppression and mistreatment.
I cannot understand why every person who considered "white" is to blame...
I cannot understand what "white" actually is.
Are Asians white? Are Jews white? Are Latinos white? If this is the case it is not the color or other physical differences.
Asians, Latinos, and Jews can be as black or even more black that AA...
Are "whites" a group of descendants of European settlers who colonized America mostly leaving in South and are reach and influential?
Then how to identify them?
I guess I am lost...

This is necessary dialog. As its understandable how people don't want to be lumped in the group of decision makers who have done the things they have done. But you also have to understand that people unknowingly &/or knowingly but just don't care enable these decisions. Basically when the common narrative is that a race of people as a whole only aren't as successful as they should be. Because they haven't worked as hard as they should. And have been too busy crying about their struggle. Even If they aren't the ones to make those decisions. They are the ones that gives those decisions the support and power it needs. Every time America was able to have progressive movements was when Americans stood together to show it wasn't acceptable.

I will give you a direct example. Within the war on drugs. 100 grams of cocaine equaled the same sentence as 1 gram of crack. This was installed this way because the poor and black were far and wide more likely to be in possession of crack then cocaine. Judges were then allowed to add excessive amount of prison time if you refused a plea deal. You could have been completely innocent but not trust the system enough and be scared by the maximum amount of years and take the plea deal. None of that is just and was specifically designed to lock up people of color. Complaints by blacks about this system though went on def ears to stand together with other Americans and fight flat out injustice. Instead the narratives of blacks being lazy, uneducated, predictors was the preferred narrative. So when you know the system is rigged against you. And you know your fellow Americans aren't going to bat for you. Whats going to happen is eventually you are going to start to embrace that identity.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/30/us/black-privilege/index.html
This is the type of logic that allows the decision makers to divide and conquer.

Don't encourage he will start comparing AA to Russian mafia very soon..

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

arkrud wrote:I can understand why African Americans are angry at government, unfair low-enforcement, bios against blacks, instances of racism, history of oppression and mistreatment.
I cannot understand why every person who considered "white" is to blame...
I cannot understand what "white" actually is.
Are Asians white? Are Jews white? Are Latinos white? If this is the case it is not the color or other physical differences.
Asians, Latinos, and Jews can be as black or even more black that AA...
Are "whites" a group of descendants of European settlers who colonized America mostly leaving in South and are reach and influential?
Then how to identify them?
I guess I am lost...

who made that statement?

It's called self guilt. If you feel guilty about something, it doesn't matter how many times people say it's not your fault. That one time when someone says it's your fault, it speaks loud. This is a human flaw. I have the same issue with success and failure. I can make 100 jumpers in a row....but my turnovers or missed shots will speak louder than my successful shots or plays.

So if I have a big nose and curly hire I am a Jew and so responsible for "drinking the blood of christian infants" and supporting decisions of Sion Elders?
If my skin is white, I am skinny, and light white hair I am and Arian and so is responsible for holocaust and WW2, for slavery, and the eradication of Native Americans?
In fact I do not have any guilt for what I haven't done and never supported. Why would I?
Everyone have to be judged by his own deeds not for the deeds of anyone alike.
There is no group responsibility. It is ALWAYS only personal responsibility.
And there are no group excuses. There are ALWAYS only personal excuses.

Yeah but white people have held down people of color for a long time and you reap the "privileges" in other words if we are playing a videogame your character has +1 to damage and +1 to defense while a black person has -1 to damage and -1 to defense to start the game. And while you guys are arguing about why he started the game with less and you more the Asian person who started -1 to damage just leveled up twice to +2 to damage.

But seriously I think most white people understand that there still is racism on different levels and scales but at the same time we have people like Obama and Neil DeGrasse Tyson and a whole slew of successful black people and yes they had to work harder because they were black and there are still hurdles that black people face in this country and the world for that matter but at the same time you have SOME black people that complain all day long how the man holds them down while they are just sitting on there ass not doing **** and the white people that call this **** out are automatically labeled racists and as a result white people have just thrown their hands in the air.

One doesnt justify the other. Even if every African American felt this way and did nothing. It wouldn't justify systematic racism. There would be no need for it if AAs were just going to fail on their own due to lazyness.

If you believe that the starting point it was only -1. Then you are very much mistaken.

Yep, the starting point was and is way lover...
And so I have enormous respect to millions AA people who achieve prosperity and excelled in all ways of life.
LeBron, Obama, Tiger are just the tip of the iceberg.
Oppression makes strong stronger but breaks the weak.
So they need to be taken care off by strong.
A lot of people bringing race to excuse their own unwillingness or inability to help themselves and people alike.
Every time I hear it I think - look at yourself...

The battle being fought over race isnt so blacks can get more welfare, free perks for doing nothing, have everything handed to them. The battle is for the ppl who are busting their ass but still have to deal with unnecessary racism, discrimination, bigotry etc. The unjust justice system and the negative narrative and image of blacks as a whole. The killing and brutilazation of unarmed black men/children through excessive force. Having the water supply tampered with or were these. A re distribution of wealth would be great. But isnt realistic because it wouldn't be just to the ppl who have worked there ass off to be where they are today. And you cant sacrifice them in order to make up for the oppression of blacks. Just like systematic racism isn't just to the ppl who do the right thing but have to work 2-3 times as hard in order to be successful in their field and they shouldnt be sacrificed just to preserve white privilege. All that is asked is that Americans as a whole accept the history of slavery,oppression,discrimination, bigotry and the impact it has had leading up to this point. Accept that there has been and is white privilege up to this point. Then together work on ways to eliminate systematic racism and exposing actual racist getting them out of positions of power. With no systematic racism there is no need for things like Affirmative action to try and combat it. There would be no need for a Rooney rule if we can naturally trust that the decisions made are fair and just when it comes to hiring coaches in the NFL. There would be no need for black history month if black history was naturally taught year round as apart of American history.

The more information that has become available to us due to the internet information age. The more African Americans have been proven correct. From rigged judicial systems, to filmed police brutality/killings. To racist and bigot political officials.

newyorknewyork wrote:

arkrud wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Stevo718 wrote:

arkrud wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

arkrud wrote:I can understand why African Americans are angry at government, unfair low-enforcement, bios against blacks, instances of racism, history of oppression and mistreatment.
I cannot understand why every person who considered "white" is to blame...
I cannot understand what "white" actually is.
Are Asians white? Are Jews white? Are Latinos white? If this is the case it is not the color or other physical differences.
Asians, Latinos, and Jews can be as black or even more black that AA...
Are "whites" a group of descendants of European settlers who colonized America mostly leaving in South and are reach and influential?
Then how to identify them?
I guess I am lost...

who made that statement?

It's called self guilt. If you feel guilty about something, it doesn't matter how many times people say it's not your fault. That one time when someone says it's your fault, it speaks loud. This is a human flaw. I have the same issue with success and failure. I can make 100 jumpers in a row....but my turnovers or missed shots will speak louder than my successful shots or plays.

So if I have a big nose and curly hire I am a Jew and so responsible for "drinking the blood of christian infants" and supporting decisions of Sion Elders?
If my skin is white, I am skinny, and light white hair I am and Arian and so is responsible for holocaust and WW2, for slavery, and the eradication of Native Americans?
In fact I do not have any guilt for what I haven't done and never supported. Why would I?
Everyone have to be judged by his own deeds not for the deeds of anyone alike.
There is no group responsibility. It is ALWAYS only personal responsibility.
And there are no group excuses. There are ALWAYS only personal excuses.

Yeah but white people have held down people of color for a long time and you reap the "privileges" in other words if we are playing a videogame your character has +1 to damage and +1 to defense while a black person has -1 to damage and -1 to defense to start the game. And while you guys are arguing about why he started the game with less and you more the Asian person who started -1 to damage just leveled up twice to +2 to damage.

But seriously I think most white people understand that there still is racism on different levels and scales but at the same time we have people like Obama and Neil DeGrasse Tyson and a whole slew of successful black people and yes they had to work harder because they were black and there are still hurdles that black people face in this country and the world for that matter but at the same time you have SOME black people that complain all day long how the man holds them down while they are just sitting on there ass not doing **** and the white people that call this **** out are automatically labeled racists and as a result white people have just thrown their hands in the air.

One doesnt justify the other. Even if every African American felt this way and did nothing. It wouldn't justify systematic racism. There would be no need for it if AAs were just going to fail on their own due to lazyness.

If you believe that the starting point it was only -1. Then you are very much mistaken.

Yep, the starting point was and is way lover...
And so I have enormous respect to millions AA people who achieve prosperity and excelled in all ways of life.
LeBron, Obama, Tiger are just the tip of the iceberg.
Oppression makes strong stronger but breaks the weak.
So they need to be taken care off by strong.
A lot of people bringing race to excuse their own unwillingness or inability to help themselves and people alike.
Every time I hear it I think - look at yourself...

The battle being fought over race isnt so blacks can get more welfare, free perks for doing nothing, have everything handed to them. The battle is for the ppl who are busting their ass but still have to deal with unnecessary racism, discrimination, bigotry etc. The unjust justice system and the negative narrative and image of blacks as a whole. The killing and brutilazation of unarmed black men/children through excessive force. Having the water supply tampered with or were these. A re distribution of wealth would be great. But isnt realistic because it wouldn't be just to the ppl who have worked there ass off to be where they are today. And you cant sacrifice them in order to make up for the oppression of blacks. Just like systematic racism isn't just to the ppl who do the right thing but have to work 2-3 times as hard in order to be successful in their field and they shouldnt be sacrificed just to preserve white privilege. All that is asked is that Americans as a whole accept the history of slavery,oppression,discrimination, bigotry and the impact it has had leading up to this point. Accept that there has been and is white privilege up to this point. Then together work on ways to eliminate systematic racism and exposing actual racist getting them out of positions of power. With no systematic racism there is no need for things like Affirmative action to try and combat it. There would be no need for a Rooney rule if we can naturally trust that the decisions made are fair and just when it comes to hiring coaches in the NFL. There would be no need for black history month if black history was naturally taught year round as apart of American history.

The more information that has become available to us due to the internet information age. The more African Americans have been proven correct. From rigged judicial systems, to filmed police brutality/killings. To racist and bigot political officials.

Of course the +1 and -1 are just examples to prove my point. Also great post by the way.

I hate using the term black people to generalize because when people say white people there is a general picture of a typical middle class Caucasian person and its not negative whatsoever. When the term black person is used I think there is still a big chunk of people that still have a picture of someone with baggy jeans, uses heavy slang and possibly ghetto... this is a huge problem.