fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Are we naive to think a team GM/President never made it known he wanted to trade a player?

It reaches a higher level of desperation when you tell the media on multiple occasions and try to push the player out through the media. Kenny Smith is right here. The way Phil is doing is unprecedented. It's the kind of thing that only happens with our dysfunctional franchise.

What is the anomaly here?
Phils public shaming?
Or
The No Trade Clause?

Without it, no drama, no public affirmations, declarations, or any discussion. Melo is not condusive to the direction of this team at the moment.

As for his value? Its comical to even suggest some how there is some big secret Phil is letting the world know.

It's not an either/or. There's a tragic but comical irony to publicly shaming the guy you gave a no-trade clause to with the hope that he'll waive the NTC you gave him. Just another illustration of the dysfunctional drama that is unique to Knicks land. So far it hasn't reached Isiah era levels.

Right on point +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
The Knicks are a clueless franchise without direction, don’t know how to win and don’t know how to loose. The fact that we are picking 8 in the draft when we should have positioned ourselves for a top three pick is beyond stupidity and bad management.

actually they most certainly have a clue AND a direction... which is WHY they are trying to move Melo.

Also 1+1=2

Does this mean that phil, someone who always believed he was the smartest one on the room, was clueless and was directionless before giving Melo the NTC? I can't imagine giving Melo the NTC then hoping that he waves it was a part of the master plan....

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Are we naive to think a team GM/President never made it known he wanted to trade a player?

It reaches a higher level of desperation when you tell the media on multiple occasions and try to push the player out through the media. Kenny Smith is right here. The way Phil is doing is unprecedented. It's the kind of thing that only happens with our dysfunctional franchise.

What is the anomaly here?
Phils public shaming?
Or
The No Trade Clause?

Without it, no drama, no public affirmations, declarations, or any discussion. Melo is not condusive to the direction of this team at the moment.

As for his value? Its comical to even suggest some how there is some big secret Phil is letting the world know.

It's not an either/or. There's a tragic but comical irony to publicly shaming the guy you gave a no-trade clause to with the hope that he'll waive the NTC you gave him. Just another illustration of the dysfunctional drama that is unique to Knicks land. So far it hasn't reached Isiah era levels.

Right on point +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
The Knicks are a clueless franchise without direction, don’t know how to win and don’t know how to loose. The fact that we are picking 8 in the draft when we should have positioned ourselves for a top three pick is beyond stupidity and bad management.

actually they most certainly have a clue AND a direction... which is WHY they are trying to move Melo.

Also 1+1=2

Does this mean that phil, someone who always believed he was the smartest one on the room, was clueless and was directionless before giving Melo the NTC? I can't imagine giving Melo the NTC then hoping that he waves it was a part of the master plan....

Phil was confident that he could get thru to Melo as he had with his other top players. He was wrong but you can understand being overconfident given his track record!!! Why this is lost on you I don't get. Phil won a lot and it gave him a feeling he could force his will but he underestimated the level of stubbornness with Melo!!!

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Are we naive to think a team GM/President never made it known he wanted to trade a player?

It reaches a higher level of desperation when you tell the media on multiple occasions and try to push the player out through the media. Kenny Smith is right here. The way Phil is doing is unprecedented. It's the kind of thing that only happens with our dysfunctional franchise.

What is the anomaly here?
Phils public shaming?
Or
The No Trade Clause?

Without it, no drama, no public affirmations, declarations, or any discussion. Melo is not condusive to the direction of this team at the moment.

As for his value? Its comical to even suggest some how there is some big secret Phil is letting the world know.

It's not an either/or. There's a tragic but comical irony to publicly shaming the guy you gave a no-trade clause to with the hope that he'll waive the NTC you gave him. Just another illustration of the dysfunctional drama that is unique to Knicks land. So far it hasn't reached Isiah era levels.

Right on point +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
The Knicks are a clueless franchise without direction, don’t know how to win and don’t know how to loose. The fact that we are picking 8 in the draft when we should have positioned ourselves for a top three pick is beyond stupidity and bad management.

actually they most certainly have a clue AND a direction... which is WHY they are trying to move Melo.

Also 1+1=2

Does this mean that phil, someone who always believed he was the smartest one on the room, was clueless and was directionless before giving Melo the NTC? I can't imagine giving Melo the NTC then hoping that he waves it was a part of the master plan....

Phil was confident that he could get thru to Melo as he had with his other top players. He was wrong but you can understand being overconfident given his track record!!! Why this is lost on you I don't get. Phil won a lot and it gave him a feeling he could force his will but he underestimated the level of stubbornness with Melo!!!

There was a great article a while back that theorized that bringing in Rose ended the Dad Melo era because of how Rose plays. I think it has a lot more to do with roster construction then blaming Melo. How many teams win with the majority of their roster being undrafted guys? Getting rid of Rolo and bringing in Rose stifled the development of KP which is what this is supposed to be all about. At this point everything and every situation has been on Phil's watch.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Are we naive to think a team GM/President never made it known he wanted to trade a player?

It reaches a higher level of desperation when you tell the media on multiple occasions and try to push the player out through the media. Kenny Smith is right here. The way Phil is doing is unprecedented. It's the kind of thing that only happens with our dysfunctional franchise.

What is the anomaly here?
Phils public shaming?
Or
The No Trade Clause?

Without it, no drama, no public affirmations, declarations, or any discussion. Melo is not condusive to the direction of this team at the moment.

As for his value? Its comical to even suggest some how there is some big secret Phil is letting the world know.

It's not an either/or. There's a tragic but comical irony to publicly shaming the guy you gave a no-trade clause to with the hope that he'll waive the NTC you gave him. Just another illustration of the dysfunctional drama that is unique to Knicks land. So far it hasn't reached Isiah era levels.

Right on point +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
The Knicks are a clueless franchise without direction, don’t know how to win and don’t know how to loose. The fact that we are picking 8 in the draft when we should have positioned ourselves for a top three pick is beyond stupidity and bad management.

actually they most certainly have a clue AND a direction... which is WHY they are trying to move Melo.

Also 1+1=2

Does this mean that phil, someone who always believed he was the smartest one on the room, was clueless and was directionless before giving Melo the NTC? I can't imagine giving Melo the NTC then hoping that he waves it was a part of the master plan....

I mean he had 1 draft pick over the next 3 years. The summer Carmelo resigned we still had Amare and Bargs on the books and still would have been over the cap. So if he lets Carmelo walk we still couldn't sign FAs and we wouldn't have had our draft pick that year. So no star player, no cap space, no draft pick.

...And then he compounds the problem by allowing Melo to grab the franchise by the b###'s! Phils getting 12mil per...his job is to have some foresight...Someone as smart as phil had to know Melo at this point in his career is pretty much a finished product. Phil said as much in his infamous tweet "but I learned you don't change the spot on a leopard with Michael Graham in my CBA daze."

yellowboy90 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Are we naive to think a team GM/President never made it known he wanted to trade a player?

It reaches a higher level of desperation when you tell the media on multiple occasions and try to push the player out through the media. Kenny Smith is right here. The way Phil is doing is unprecedented. It's the kind of thing that only happens with our dysfunctional franchise.

What is the anomaly here?
Phils public shaming?
Or
The No Trade Clause?

Without it, no drama, no public affirmations, declarations, or any discussion. Melo is not condusive to the direction of this team at the moment.

As for his value? Its comical to even suggest some how there is some big secret Phil is letting the world know.

It's not an either/or. There's a tragic but comical irony to publicly shaming the guy you gave a no-trade clause to with the hope that he'll waive the NTC you gave him. Just another illustration of the dysfunctional drama that is unique to Knicks land. So far it hasn't reached Isiah era levels.

Right on point +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
The Knicks are a clueless franchise without direction, don’t know how to win and don’t know how to loose. The fact that we are picking 8 in the draft when we should have positioned ourselves for a top three pick is beyond stupidity and bad management.

actually they most certainly have a clue AND a direction... which is WHY they are trying to move Melo.

Also 1+1=2

Does this mean that phil, someone who always believed he was the smartest one on the room, was clueless and was directionless before giving Melo the NTC? I can't imagine giving Melo the NTC then hoping that he waves it was a part of the master plan....

I mean he had 1 draft pick over the next 3 years. The summer Carmelo resigned we still had Amare and Bargs on the books and still would have been over the cap. So if he lets Carmelo walk we still couldn't sign FAs and we wouldn't have had our draft pick that year. So no star player, no cap space, no draft pick.

It's not about just one year its about the following years. He is suppose to build for the future. Also there are ways to get draft picks. He could have gotten number 1s for Tyson Chandler and Shump is he would not have included Felton or Smith. Phil has been to busy opening up cap space to only fill it with wasteful dumb moves. Instead of taking on salary and gaining picks like Hinkie he would rather go out and sign Arron Afflalo and Derrick Williams to dumb deals.

I think this is fair criticism. Not sure what Tyson's or Shump's value was but one can take a position that Phil had tried to maximize cap space more than he tried to maximize draft picks.

Uptown wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

KnicksFE wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Nalod wrote:Are we naive to think a team GM/President never made it known he wanted to trade a player?

It reaches a higher level of desperation when you tell the media on multiple occasions and try to push the player out through the media. Kenny Smith is right here. The way Phil is doing is unprecedented. It's the kind of thing that only happens with our dysfunctional franchise.

What is the anomaly here?
Phils public shaming?
Or
The No Trade Clause?

Without it, no drama, no public affirmations, declarations, or any discussion. Melo is not condusive to the direction of this team at the moment.

As for his value? Its comical to even suggest some how there is some big secret Phil is letting the world know.

It's not an either/or. There's a tragic but comical irony to publicly shaming the guy you gave a no-trade clause to with the hope that he'll waive the NTC you gave him. Just another illustration of the dysfunctional drama that is unique to Knicks land. So far it hasn't reached Isiah era levels.

Right on point +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
The Knicks are a clueless franchise without direction, don’t know how to win and don’t know how to loose. The fact that we are picking 8 in the draft when we should have positioned ourselves for a top three pick is beyond stupidity and bad management.

actually they most certainly have a clue AND a direction... which is WHY they are trying to move Melo.

Also 1+1=2

Does this mean that phil, someone who always believed he was the smartest one on the room, was clueless and was directionless before giving Melo the NTC? I can't imagine giving Melo the NTC then hoping that he waves it was a part of the master plan....

I mean he had 1 draft pick over the next 3 years. The summer Carmelo resigned we still had Amare and Bargs on the books and still would have been over the cap. So if he lets Carmelo walk we still couldn't sign FAs and we wouldn't have had our draft pick that year. So no star player, no cap space, no draft pick.

It's not about just one year its about the following years. He is suppose to build for the future. Also there are ways to get draft picks. He could have gotten number 1s for Tyson Chandler and Shump is he would not have included Felton or Smith. Phil has been to busy opening up cap space to only fill it with wasteful dumb moves. Instead of taking on salary and gaining picks like Hinkie he would rather go out and sign Arron Afflalo and Derrick Williams to dumb deals.

+ 10000

I'm saying either route he took it would be spinned to his detriment. We know the outcome of this route so its easy to say he should have went the opposite route. But if he lets Melo walk then the narrative would then be how Phil let his ego and the triangle let Melo walk for nothing. Now with that cap space Phil has from letting Melo walk. If he isn't able to sign anyone of quality. Regardless the narrative would be how his ego let Melo walk amd wasnt able to find a suitable FA to fill that void. Fans are crying now that we havent been good. If we havent been good and we ket Melo walk for nothing fans would be crying about that as well. I gurantee there wouldnt be anyone except maybe Meloshouldgo that would be saying well at least we dont have Melo holding us up since that outcome wouldnt be visible.

Phil decided to keep Melo and hoped to use Melo to attract other FAs since that's the only route we had available. All that cap space meant nothing if FAs saw that we only had Jr Smith and Shumpert to team with. And only one draft pick coming.

newyorknewyork wrote:If Phil gets one future draft pick from moving Melo today. Its one more draft pick then we would have had if Melo was able to walk for nothing.

You do realize that he could have open discussion with Chicago about a S&T but he shot that down and wanted zero part of it. So he could have been had draft picks and freedom.

newyorknewyork wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:If Phil gets one future draft pick from moving Melo today. Its one more draft pick then we would have had if Melo was able to walk for nothing.

You do realize that he could have open discussion with Chicago about a S&T but he shot that down and wanted zero part of it. So he could have been had draft picks and freedom.

There was 0 incentive for Chi to participate in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If Phil doesn't want Melo and doesn't want to offer max and a NTC then they could land Melo for free(In terms of not giving up assets). Melo wasn't going to Houston or Dallas and they held a way better situation then LA. Maybe if LA became a serious threat they would participate in a bidding war with LA but that would be up to Melo and LA creating that interest between each other. And at that time LA didn't really have much to offer in terms of young assets. Plus didn't MDA coach them at that time. The only time a S&T would make sense would be if the Knicks wanted to keep Melo but Melo himself wanted to leave for the Bulls but wanted all his money preventing them from signing him outright and they would have to be willing to pay him.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:If Phil gets one future draft pick from moving Melo today. Its one more draft pick then we would have had if Melo was able to walk for nothing.

You do realize that he could have open discussion with Chicago about a S&T but he shot that down and wanted zero part of it. So he could have been had draft picks and freedom.

There was 0 incentive for Chi to participate in a sign and trade with the Knicks. If Phil doesn't want Melo and doesn't want to offer max and a NTC then they could land Melo for free(In terms of not giving up assets). Melo wasn't going to Houston or Dallas and they held a way better situation then LA. Maybe if LA became a serious threat they would participate in a bidding war with LA but that would be up to Melo and LA creating that interest between each other. And at that time LA didn't really have much to offer in terms of young assets. Plus didn't MDA coach them at that time. The only time a S&T would make sense would be if the Knicks wanted to keep Melo but Melo himself wanted to leave for the Bulls but wanted all his money preventing them from signing him outright and they would have to be willing to pay him.

Are you kidding? Phil was the one that wouldn't participate in a sign and trade with Chicago.

I remember the Bulls, trading up in the draft for Mcdermott who they coveted at the time, and signing Paul Gasol for dirt cheap, as well as bringing in Mirotic after winning 48 games the season prior. Bulls did not put themselves in position where they needed Carmelo but if they could steal him sure.