holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.

At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.

I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?

Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.

Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).

Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...

All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...

When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company

Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media

For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done

You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...

Rose took 8 shots yesterday...

If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective.

Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.

Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.

You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...

right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.

This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.

Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.

My agenda is to tell it like it is...And not coddle the boy wonder or Phil can't do wrong...

this is some of your best work mate... This is like saying "I am not partisan, I just like Trump because he calls it like it is and doesnt cater to the whiny media or pathetic liberals."

Good stuff. Carry on. Hows the Eddy Curry trade looking?

Every game thread, Melo gets the blame for KP's play no matter the outcome...Is it really so hard to say KP didn't have a good game...You are complicit to this behavior when you say you call it like it is...

This

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.

At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.

I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?

Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.

Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).

Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...

All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...

When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company

Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media

For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done

You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...

Rose took 8 shots yesterday...

If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective.

Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.

Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.

You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...

right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.

This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.

Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.

My agenda is to tell it like it is...And not coddle the boy wonder or Phil can't do wrong...

this is some of your best work mate... This is like saying "I am not partisan, I just like Trump because he calls it like it is and doesnt cater to the whiny media or pathetic liberals."

Good stuff. Carry on. Hows the Eddy Curry trade looking?

Every game thread, Melo gets the blame for KP's play no matter the outcome...Is it really so hard to say KP didn't have a good game...You are complicit to this behavior when you say you call it like it is...

I have never said that about Melo or KP. KP does plenty of things I think need to improve. I also dont blame Melo for anything except playing terrible defense. Dude can score and is still one of the NBA's best scorers. He's an amazing shooter, and unlike some I dont think he's garbage we should rid ourselves of. Actually the opposite. I think it sucks we had a player this good here and were never able to capitalize on it but for ONE season. YOU however are hypersensitive to any possibility that Phil doesnt take the blame for every loss and every missed shot because of your pro-Isiah agenda, and how you only post in mass when the Knicks are struggling.

Sure.. this is on Phil, but I dont have the issue with it you do because there is a bigger picture here besides Phil sucks, Phil failed, we would be better with Isiah, KP can do no wrong... bla bla bla

as it turns out we are headed for exactly the win total most NON Knick fans thought.

Ok..Let's address this pro-Isiah stuff and I only post when the Knicks do bad or I only post when KP hit the wall stuff...Where is your proof???..When did I start posting again here??What date so we can address and clear the air..You comments are patently false and I can prove it...Where do you want to start???

You are lying about the about...

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.

At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.

I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?

Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.

Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).

Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...

All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...

When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company

Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media

For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done

You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...

Rose took 8 shots yesterday...

If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective.

Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.

Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.

You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...

right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.

This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.

Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.

So taking a team that was a dissapointment with 37 wins to a team that has been 71-146 has not been a disappointment? Met your expectations? What record and how many years of 40 and under wins would you consider it to be a failure on his part? That way I know when to chime back in on the matter. Think the hate for Phil, as you call it, is that there seems to be zero accountability from a guy that places blame on everyone except himself. Btw, can we clear up the fact that KP was because of Phil. Thought it was Gaines pushing his value. You make it seem as though he would have picked him at 1,2 or 3.

If Phil drafts a bust its on him. So lets end the "this was Gaines" pick nonsense. KP was his pick. So was Willy. So was signing Kuz. So was KOQ and his nice deal.

Notice my bolded statement above. Phil certainly failed to get this team into the playoffs this year. I said it there, and I will say it now. The REAL question is does that make Phil a bad GM? Or someone that can rebuild this franchise? I am saying based on what I have seen the answer is YES. Others are saying that based on this year and not getting great assets back for guys like Shump/JR/Tyson that Phil has shown nothing that suggests this. I wholly disagree with that and cited the Isiah example.

I am sure the Knicks could have packaged KP/Lopez/Grant for Boogie Cousins. Than maybe use this year's #1 and a 2019 #1 for some help at PG. I am really glad we have moved away from that kind of thinking.

Its ok to say Phil has failed with this squad. I cant argue that. Does that make him a bad GM? I dont think so, and I am confident he will continue to take us in the right direction based on the young players he's brought in, how he's used the draft and the fact that his failures will not prevent us from rebuilding as Isiah's did. He had to resign Melo. He had to try to field a playoff team around him. Failing in that endevor wont hurt us long term. Every GM makes mistakes. The good ones bounce back. The bad ones hurt your franchises for years. Isiah set us back a decade. Phil took a 37 win team and started over. If you wanted to throw more money, picks and future assets at building around Tyson/Amare/Melo/Shump/JR than I am happy to disagree with you there.

Dont agree that Phil had KP as "his guy" and feel Gaines was the source for Willy and Kuz as well, specially after Gaines hit with KP pick. Think KP was the best available and most had him at 4. Just seems like you make it more Zen like than it was. But fair enough. You are right. Its on GM who gets picked at the end. And not clainming a GM should be judged on one good or bad draft pick. As its hard to gauge the success of a player at the next nevel.

But I think what your missing is my point/ I judge him for the lack of accountability, throwing others under bus, and bad judgemnt on players like Rose and Noah. I can slightly understand Noah, as he might be viewed as a Triangle guy. But for 4 years for a guy coming off injury and on decline? Rookie GM move from the great Phil. And Rose? All you had to do is minor due dilligence and watch any of his games. The lack of court vision, the lack of setting up players and the need to be in a fast paced loose offense screams not Triangle. Just cant see how you justify an experienced GM making this type of decision. And if all you are concerned about is not giving up cap space or draft picks, then why complain so much about Melo. He comes off in a couple of years and we are not giving up any draft picks for him. We are losing, which is what everyone wants in order to get high pick. So everything is good?

And BTW, Tyson, Melo, Shump, JR and a stump for point guard would be a better defensive and offensive team than the sorry bucnh we have on the floor right now. Then we could have KP, Kuz and Willy off the bench to show everyone how to really play. Win-Win

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.

At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.

I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?

Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.

Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).

Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...

All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...

When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company

Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media

For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done

You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...

Rose took 8 shots yesterday...

If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective.

Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.

Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.

You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...

right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.

This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.

Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.

So taking a team that was a dissapointment with 37 wins to a team that has been 71-146 has not been a disappointment? Met your expectations? What record and how many years of 40 and under wins would you consider it to be a failure on his part? That way I know when to chime back in on the matter. Think the hate for Phil, as you call it, is that there seems to be zero accountability from a guy that places blame on everyone except himself. Btw, can we clear up the fact that KP was because of Phil. Thought it was Gaines pushing his value. You make it seem as though he would have picked him at 1,2 or 3.

If Phil drafts a bust its on him. So lets end the "this was Gaines" pick nonsense. KP was his pick. So was Willy. So was signing Kuz. So was KOQ and his nice deal.

Notice my bolded statement above. Phil certainly failed to get this team into the playoffs this year. I said it there, and I will say it now. The REAL question is does that make Phil a bad GM? Or someone that can rebuild this franchise? I am saying based on what I have seen the answer is YES. Others are saying that based on this year and not getting great assets back for guys like Shump/JR/Tyson that Phil has shown nothing that suggests this. I wholly disagree with that and cited the Isiah example.

I am sure the Knicks could have packaged KP/Lopez/Grant for Boogie Cousins. Than maybe use this year's #1 and a 2019 #1 for some help at PG. I am really glad we have moved away from that kind of thinking.

Its ok to say Phil has failed with this squad. I cant argue that. Does that make him a bad GM? I dont think so, and I am confident he will continue to take us in the right direction based on the young players he's brought in, how he's used the draft and the fact that his failures will not prevent us from rebuilding as Isiah's did. He had to resign Melo. He had to try to field a playoff team around him. Failing in that endevor wont hurt us long term. Every GM makes mistakes. The good ones bounce back. The bad ones hurt your franchises for years. Isiah set us back a decade. Phil took a 37 win team and started over. If you wanted to throw more money, picks and future assets at building around Tyson/Amare/Melo/Shump/JR than I am happy to disagree with you there.

Dont agree that Phil had KP as "his guy" and feel Gaines was the source for Willy and Kuz as well, specially after Gaines hit with KP pick. Think KP was the best available and most had him at 4. Just seems like you make it more Zen like than it was. But fair enough. You are right. Its on GM who gets picked at the end. And not clainming a GM should be judged on one good or bad draft pick. As its hard to gauge the success of a player at the next nevel.

But I think what your missing is my point/ I judge him for the lack of accountability, throwing others under bus, and bad judgemnt on players like Rose and Noah. I can slightly understand Noah, as he might be viewed as a Triangle guy. But for 4 years for a guy coming off injury and on decline? Rookie GM move from the great Phil. And Rose? All you had to do is minor due dilligence and watch any of his games. The lack of court vision, the lack of setting up players and the need to be in a fast paced loose offense screams not Triangle. Just cant see how you justify an experienced GM making this type of decision. And if all you are concerned about is not giving up cap space or draft picks, then why complain so much about Melo. He comes off in a couple of years and we are not giving up any draft picks for him. We are losing, which is what everyone wants in order to get high pick. So everything is good?

And BTW, Tyson, Melo, Shump, JR and a stump for point guard would be a better defensive and offensive team than the sorry bucnh we have on the floor right now. Then we could have KP, Kuz and Willy off the bench to show everyone how to really play. Win-Win

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.

At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.

I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?

Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.

Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).

Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...

All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...

When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company

Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media

For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done

You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...

Rose took 8 shots yesterday...

If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective.

Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.

Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.

You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...

right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.

This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.

Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.

So taking a team that was a dissapointment with 37 wins to a team that has been 71-146 has not been a disappointment? Met your expectations? What record and how many years of 40 and under wins would you consider it to be a failure on his part? That way I know when to chime back in on the matter. Think the hate for Phil, as you call it, is that there seems to be zero accountability from a guy that places blame on everyone except himself. Btw, can we clear up the fact that KP was because of Phil. Thought it was Gaines pushing his value. You make it seem as though he would have picked him at 1,2 or 3.

If Phil drafts a bust its on him. So lets end the "this was Gaines" pick nonsense. KP was his pick. So was Willy. So was signing Kuz. So was KOQ and his nice deal.

Notice my bolded statement above. Phil certainly failed to get this team into the playoffs this year. I said it there, and I will say it now. The REAL question is does that make Phil a bad GM? Or someone that can rebuild this franchise? I am saying based on what I have seen the answer is YES. Others are saying that based on this year and not getting great assets back for guys like Shump/JR/Tyson that Phil has shown nothing that suggests this. I wholly disagree with that and cited the Isiah example.

I am sure the Knicks could have packaged KP/Lopez/Grant for Boogie Cousins. Than maybe use this year's #1 and a 2019 #1 for some help at PG. I am really glad we have moved away from that kind of thinking.

Its ok to say Phil has failed with this squad. I cant argue that. Does that make him a bad GM? I dont think so, and I am confident he will continue to take us in the right direction based on the young players he's brought in, how he's used the draft and the fact that his failures will not prevent us from rebuilding as Isiah's did. He had to resign Melo. He had to try to field a playoff team around him. Failing in that endevor wont hurt us long term. Every GM makes mistakes. The good ones bounce back. The bad ones hurt your franchises for years. Isiah set us back a decade. Phil took a 37 win team and started over. If you wanted to throw more money, picks and future assets at building around Tyson/Amare/Melo/Shump/JR than I am happy to disagree with you there.

Dont agree that Phil had KP as "his guy" and feel Gaines was the source for Willy and Kuz as well, specially after Gaines hit with KP pick. Think KP was the best available and most had him at 4. Just seems like you make it more Zen like than it was. But fair enough. You are right. Its on GM who gets picked at the end. And not clainming a GM should be judged on one good or bad draft pick. As its hard to gauge the success of a player at the next nevel.

But I think what your missing is my point/ I judge him for the lack of accountability, throwing others under bus, and bad judgemnt on players like Rose and Noah. I can slightly understand Noah, as he might be viewed as a Triangle guy. But for 4 years for a guy coming off injury and on decline? Rookie GM move from the great Phil. And Rose? All you had to do is minor due dilligence and watch any of his games. The lack of court vision, the lack of setting up players and the need to be in a fast paced loose offense screams not Triangle. Just cant see how you justify an experienced GM making this type of decision. And if all you are concerned about is not giving up cap space or draft picks, then why complain so much about Melo. He comes off in a couple of years and we are not giving up any draft picks for him. We are losing, which is what everyone wants in order to get high pick. So everything is good?

And BTW, Tyson, Melo, Shump, JR and a stump for point guard would be a better defensive and offensive team than the sorry bucnh we have on the floor right now. Then we could have KP, Kuz and Willy off the bench to show everyone how to really play. Win-Win

And please.. stop, just stop. KP is Phil's player. It doesnt matter who scouted him. All the matter is when Phil was the GM we selected KP. There is no grey area. If it was Gaines fine, why is Gaines with the org again? This is a non starter and to take credit from Phil is totally disingenuous

Again.. not a popular thread, but dont tell me I am biased. When guys stink I say they stink. When they play great I say that also. Mostly I try to focus on big picture and perspective.

I dont get irritated by agenda or emotional driven posting. Its a fan site, I get it, but I can call it out for what it is, especially when people are trying to discuss whats happening and that discussion is being hampered by someone's 1 sided agenda. Just gets old

LivingLegend wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:I didn't see anybody bring this up in the thread but I found it interesting that Breen and Frazier brought up how Phil's silence is ridiculous and somebody in the FO should be addressing the insanity and that hanging Melo out to dry as the spokesman for the organization is unfair to him and the fans. Was pretty surprised they said this on the broadcast.

Whatever Phil is doing he is doing it for a reason and to drive an outcome.

He is basically in the process of forcing Me7o out of town --- that is basically the end goal right now and he is 100% correct in working towards that goal.

Not doing anything bc he is trying to drive an outcome by doing nothing and he has a good reason for it. His doing nothing isn't only impacting Melo, so if it some strange way you think it is building towards a goal then I guess I'm happy for you. At least he's pulled the wool over somebody's eyes.

You sound like a child or a kindergarten teacher.

What exactly is it that you want Phil to come out and say?

After you answer that question - tell us all what good that will do.

Thank you.

You're response was foolish so I doubled down and you didn't like it. Surprise surprise!!! I can't entertain that kind of incoherent gibberish. Sorry man.

Kind regards

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Everything phil does is calculated. I don't like the lack of communication at all, but he is clearly trying to accomplish something at the expense of Melo to move in another direction. Clearly he's trying to make melo uncomfortable with the idea that it's the only way he will consider waiving his NTC.

At this point it's at the expense of his entire team, including his prized KP and Willy.

I don't get this logic. How does Phil talking or not have anything to do with KP and Willy. Would it be better if he stroked Melo's ego encouraging him to shoot more?

Look, this "saga" has been going on for a few weeks. Have you seen Melo try and move his feet more on defense? Have you seen his hands be less sticky. I haven't. He's shooting extremely well and we're still getting smoked, just proving the point that his scoring isn't the answer to our success. The reason we're sucking up the joint is players are tired of being after thoughts on offense and then having to cover up for his (and Rose's) lack of effort on D. If we were winning it would be a different story.

Red Auerbach used to say that team chemistry is as important as team talent. Right now Melo and Rose are killing that (at least for the first unit).

Well we don't know why Phil wants Melo gone..He doesn't need to tell us..He needs to show leadership of an organization whose team is obviously floundering...Is Phil upset that Melo called him out or the team doesn't want to run the triangle??..Maybe he is sending the team a message...All we know it started when the team was doing well and winning (14-10)..So it strikes me that something got on Phil's nerves...

All said KP doesn't look like he same confident player..Blame Melo and Rose all you want...

When KP plays with the second unit he has energy; his offense is midrange, high percentage. I think yesterday he was 0-6 and listless playing with Melo and Rose, and 5-8 running with Jennings and company

Phil needs to fix this for sure. Talking about it isn't fixing it and certainly not so when talking to NY media

For all we know, he did talk to Melo the same way he used to talk to MK, Kobe and Shaq, i.e., as great as they were there were ways to improve. And for all we know Melo has done what he has always done

You really mean when KP is playing against the Nets bench players and the Lakers bench players..Two of the worst teams in the league...I am certain, that over the course of this year thus far, KP has put up better numbers playing next to Melo than not...

Rose took 8 shots yesterday...

If holfresh admits KP is top talent, than he has to admit Phil has done something positive and thats not an option here. Dude's got a very singular purpose here and did not post much at all when the team was playing better. "Phil's tried for 3 years to make the playoffs and has failed every year." is my fav holfresh credo. Its just not accurate and lacks perspective.

Yes, he has certainly failed to make this a playoff team. However he did not sacrifice the future to do so as Isiah did in setting the franchise back a decade with his bad trades. We move Melo. Let Rose walk and we continue building and this process which is doing just fine despite bitter NY fans who think a year or two of rebuilding should be enough to get us to the GS level.

Knicks are in fine shape. Set backs and mistakes happen. Its why you dont trade first rounders (Isiah). We are still flexible moving forward and in good position to continue to build the roster and add to the talent base.

You keep repeating some inaccuracies that we will tackle another time..You are sure to repeat it...But my overall view of Phil is that his ego has and will undermine the team..His insistence on playing the triangle sabotages the coach..It's not their(coach) first choice...He undermines the relationship between the coach and his players..Fisher said this, Byron Scott said this and I have been saying it will happen from day one until you are assured I hate Phil...The team is now lost and he is hiding out...He doesn't want to stand up and explain his vision or what he is trying to do...Last thing I expected of him honestly...I thought at least he wouldn't let Melo dangle nightly in front of the microphone alone...Leadership huh, Change of Culture, right...

right... so you have an agenda. Now find every piece of info you can that may back that. I guess its Phil's fault that Rose and Melo dont defend or pass the ball? I mean it IS his fault that they are on the roster, at least Rose. What makes a GM good is that they can ID their mistakes, move on, and do so with minimal damage. Your boy Isiah couldnt do that, he just spent more, traded more picks and went through twice as many coaches.

This was NOT an "all in" situation. The ONLY future asset Phil wasted on this group was cap space and Grant to put this group together, and getting Holiday back is pretty much a push for Grant. So what Phil did was bring in some firepower for Melo, that failed and now he's moving on. That actually IS good leadership and culture. You just hate Phil too much acknowledge anything but your knocks on him.

Same jazz with your KP hate. Its pretty easy to see.

My agenda is to tell it like it is...And not coddle the boy wonder or Phil can't do wrong...

this is some of your best work mate... This is like saying "I am not partisan, I just like Trump because he calls it like it is and doesnt cater to the whiny media or pathetic liberals."

Good stuff. Carry on. Hows the Eddy Curry trade looking?

Every game thread, Melo gets the blame for KP's play no matter the outcome...Is it really so hard to say KP didn't have a good game...You are complicit to this behavior when you say you call it like it is...

I have never said that about Melo or KP. KP does plenty of things I think need to improve. I also dont blame Melo for anything except playing terrible defense. Dude can score and is still one of the NBA's best scorers. He's an amazing shooter, and unlike some I dont think he's garbage we should rid ourselves of. Actually the opposite. I think it sucks we had a player this good here and were never able to capitalize on it but for ONE season. YOU however are hypersensitive to any possibility that Phil doesnt take the blame for every loss and every missed shot because of your pro-Isiah agenda, and how you only post in mass when the Knicks are struggling.

Sure.. this is on Phil, but I dont have the issue with it you do because there is a bigger picture here besides Phil sucks, Phil failed, we would be better with Isiah, KP can do no wrong... bla bla bla

as it turns out we are headed for exactly the win total most NON Knick fans thought.

Ok..Let's address this pro-Isiah stuff and I only post when the Knicks do bad or I only post when KP hit the wall stuff...Where is your proof???..When did I start posting again here??What date so we can address and clear the air..You comments are patently false and I can prove it...Where do you want to start???

You are lying about the about...

Sure... go back and show me some stuff you wrote about the team when they were playing well, or that KP is a good player. Have you ever praised that pick? Shoot out a link.

Are they false? Maybe... I only have my perception. I KNOW you were a huge Isiah guy . I KNOW you defended him to the last. I KNOW you take every opportunity to knock Phil, and I KNOW you didnt post much while the Knicks were playing well and moving up in the standings.

Call me a liar? Thats your call man. Again.. I am only calling it like I see it. If you have some examples that fit into a different category than I have painted you in feel free to share them.

you want to lump me in with the Phil can do no wrong and KP=gold boy crowd? Well I posted a thread that I started and I kill KP as the biggest reason our early defense was terrible. Feel free to provide similar examples that show you are anything more than 1 sided, and I will be HAPPY to apologize. Ill buy you 4 beers also.

Your claim was that I started posting again when KP hit the rookie wall which was patently false...I started posting again in the political thread and didn't post in a basketball thread until the start of this season....

actually its spot on... yes, I noticed you were not posting about the Knicks early in the season. You ended last year with talking about how KP was not that good and anyone saying he had franchise talent was silly because we hadnt SEEN that from KP. You started posting on the Knicks again when the losing started and the Phil knocking got good again. Why didnt you post earlier in the season? Knicks fighting for a top 4 seed wasnt interesting? Nothing to add? Oh.. the Knicks are in the crapper.. yup! Count holfresh in. Phucking lame dude.

You are patently lying again...I stopped posting in season last year, not at the end....I began again when the season started, not as you have stated when the Knicks started losing..Lying again...I'm assuming you just don't know but it doesn't give you pause to just putting stuff out there to smear..

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=55276&page=12

Posting in a Nov. 2nd gamethread which contradicts your claim...

holfresh wrote:Phil finally speaks....Taking a big shot a Melo...How long does Dolan just watch this???

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/PhilJackson11/status/829062793802420224

this is beyond Lame! You're begging Dolan to fix this. No credibility

Sorry, this is the ugly side of Phil fixing the problem; next stop is Melo riding a bus or riding pine