Rose is going to need to get his passing numbers back upand finish at the rim much better than he did last year

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

mreinman wrote:good article though not enough about the down side and inefficiency potential.

Still really good data and solid research.

Melo is a great great 3 point shooter when assisted and open. This is what MDA wanted from him. Melo also led the league in long 2's ... bleh! I hope JH can make them smarter.

Either way, it certainly sounds like Melo still has a big say in personnel decisions though wish to believe that he does not.

From the article it sounds like KP may benefit even more than melo if Rose can create for him off the PnR.

It is amazing how we both can read the same article and come away with 2 different opinions. Jackson had his exit interviews with every player. Melo said he thought the team needed a pt guard. Duh! a 5 yr old watching the Knicks knew that. Where does it say Melo had ANYTHING to do with who we got??? Where does it say Melo wanted so and so or Melo gave a list of players to go after??? When someone doesn't like a player they tend to read into the negativity of the situation more than is realistic or warranted.

Phil went to Melo and asked him if "we" were moving fast enough for him meaning no playoffs for 3 years. Some hear that and think Phil is catering to Melo. Others understand that is simply good management. Like it or not Melo is very important to what the Knicks are doing for the next couple years. He has taken the franchise rookie under his wing, became a more team focused player, organized off site team building workouts and remains the team's biggest producer.

For anyone who has every managed any kind of team you know that happy employees are better employees. Melo had earned the right to offer his input, anything else would be stupid on Phil's part. Now Phil still has to do whats best for the team and there is a difference between valuing a player's input and catering to them.

Also go look at the best years Melo has had in his career and what do you see? His most eff% shooting year he played next to Iverson and Melo had his best year shooting the ball playing next to a guy that took more shots than he did. The other time was with Billups when Melo played in the WCF.

This all just makes great basketball sense... but if you want to harp on stats and have buyer's lament fine. If I look at Lopez's all important WS/48 I see a player who is clearly trending down. This is clearly an indication that Lopez doesn't fit in today's modern NBA, is becoming less effective year after year and the Knicks were smart to trade now while he has value.

That's an interesting observation but if you go this route don't you have to look at the WS/48 of the players you received in the trade? If you do then how could you say you capitalized on his value by bringing in a player whose WS/48 have been -.036, .038,.009?

why should I do that when I can cherry pick to suit my own agendas? Maybe that WAS how we capitalized on his current value and we were a year or so away from waiving him or just dumping him for a late pick like Thad Young was. See how that works? You can focus on and cherry pick any one point.

Remember I did not like the Rose trade, but I didn't condemn it on the grounds that I would wait to see the other moves. Based on that I am fully behind this move. We needed another scorer and we desperately needed impact play from the backcourt. If you look at the FA guys that might have moved the needle the contracts are just stupid. As it turns out the Knick did very very well in FA in terms of value across the board, and that is all setup by the Rose trade.

Its not as simple as Rose vs. the perceived value of Jose/Grant/Lopez. It was the FA landscape, the Knick's needs and how Phil can build this team for Jeff.

We simply could NOT go into the season with Grant, Jose and LG as our guards for this coach. How well Rose plays remains to be seen, but if you watched him last year, bad stats aside you see he can do about 100 things than Jose can not. That being said you have guys here looking at WS stats and saying that Jose is a better player than Rose, which is pretty silly to anyone that has watched the game of basketball.

calderon was an awful player ... nobody is arguing. Just happens that Rose was even worse. You keep spinning this that people though calderon was good or even decent but he was not. He was terrible, just less terrible because he hurt his team less.

Not spinning it at all. Is Calderon a better player than Jose? Its a not a hard question. Did the Knick upgrade PG by replacing Calderon with Rose? (in your opinion)

Want to stop spinning? Answer those yes/no questions.

if they got the same rose that played last year (same output) then he is certainly worse. You can't get worse than rose played and you can't hurt a team worse than he did. AND CALDERON SUHUUUUCKS!

Now, do you want to compare last years jose to an improved Rose (which has not happened yet)? Go ahead and project.

So the answer is you cant answer the question, or wont. Yes or no, did the Knicks improve the PG spot this offseason? This should not be that hard.

I don't think there is any chance you get a yes or no answer but I will weigh in and maybe a visual example will help get you a response.

Yes!

You can't know right now if it will end up being an upgrade since you can't know how healthy Rose will be, what his mindset will bet, etc. At best, it's fair to ask mreinman *how likely* he thinks it is that it will end up being an upgrade, a downgrade, or a wash. Obviously, the future deals with probabilities, not known outcomes.

I think that this concept is too complicated for crush and fish ... yes or no or nothing. Variables, statistics and probabilities are for geeks and freaks, right? YES or NO please

I am not sure what the percentages are for him becoming a player that is different from the last three years. I think chances are that he will be close to the same and not have a significant improvement and that is IF he stays healthy.

Losing Rolo and Grant for him was a layden move but maybe that is just me ... perhaps I am missing something and he really is a good player and my eyeballs are just missing his intangibles.

so do you sit through life, do nothing at all and then calculate what *might* have been a good decision or not?

You know something about basketball? I want your opinion... yes or no. Do you think the Knicks upgraded PG?

Do you navigate your life via statistical analysis? Or do you have you formed any opinions in your years on this Earth? I am interesting in your opinion. Shall I ask the question again?

BTW... your a ****ty dancer

I think that the trade down graded the team. And, you know exactly where I stand but you are just trying to play dumb jock and do some chest pounding with a 7 2 OS.

This is just cut and paste: If we get current Rose then we down graded and of course you know its not just at PG, we gave away 2 assets to try to hit on 7 2 OS.

But don't worry, as bad as rose plays, Nix will certainly post lots of charts and fluffy data to make the stink smell like roses.

(btw, of course I would have traded Calderon for Rose heads up and I am sure that even you can figure out why (statistically).

Holy avoidance and deflection

The point is you can't ask if the Knicks upgraded (past tense) at PG when both players are currently averaging 0.0 PPG in 2016-17. Rose could get injured in the preseason and miss the whole year and Jose could play well on a better team for all we know. All you can do is ask how likely it is that the trade will end up being an upgrade. The future is not a yes no question. The weather men don't say yes/no if it will rain. They tell you the percentage chance they think there is of rain. A doctor will say you're more likely to get cancer if you smoke, but he or she won't tell you yes/no you'll get cancer.

I'd say it's possible this is an upgrade (and even a huge one) at PG but I think the odds are low given Rose's injury history and recent production.

You are overthinking this and making it very stupid. It's like you asking me what I think next year's win total will be, it's my guess.

Same thing here.

This is moving into gay robot territory

There's a difference between my asking you what you think the win total will be, and my saying: Yes or No - is this team going to win 47 games? If you then say the odds are low (or if you say that it is likely), I'd consider that a fine answer. I would not expect you to give a yes or no.

He's going to have to be a better defender and better at setting up teammates, especially KP6 and Melo. He has a LOT to prove to the Knicks and the more intelligent fans.