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OT-Frank Vogel official relieved from his duties as coach
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callmened
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5/5/2016  4:29 PM
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
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martin
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5/5/2016  4:34 PM
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10M? Wow. What do you like about him?

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wargames
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5/5/2016  4:40 PM

This is what I want from my coach...... Please Phil get it done

The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
nixluva
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5/5/2016  4:40 PM
wargames wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Hahn supposedly reported that Bird fired him due to not holding players accountable and the PG didn't like him.

But there is no evidence of this. I mean they overachieved the last 2 yrs. Not really sign if lack of accountablity.

Bird making stuff up to justify himself?

Could be Hahn getting the MSG company line out there early in the game. He did something similar with Thibs if I remember. Remember, Dolan signs Hahn's checks.

Bird wanted PG13 to play power forward... I don't think PG13 wanted to play power forward. Though I know there were complaints about the offense in Indy... after Shaw left.

Maybe, Hahn isn't a total shill but him being Dolan's mouthpiece is relatively true


Hahn talks negatively about the Knicks all the time. In fact if you listen to what he's said today on his radio show it wasn't positive talk about Phil at all. He's not a shill as people keep trying to say. Just read his Twitter feed and you can tell he's speaking his mind.
callmened
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5/5/2016  5:03 PM
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10M? Wow. What do you like about him?

he's been underrated and miscast from the start. hes that typical 3&D guy who can hit shots and play tenacious defense

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
yellowboy90
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5/5/2016  5:12 PM
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10m over 4 years is not bad $10m a year is $8m more than he has earned from his play so far. He had a decent year this year in less than 900 minutes. That is not even back up minutes.

technomaster
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5/5/2016  5:23 PM
There are a lot of head coaches that never played in the NBA or any other pro level. It speaks to their dedication to the game and making it in spite of a lack of physical gifts or skills. Even if the body fails, the mind overcomes.

His path to becoming a head coach is even more rare in that he never had any head coaching experience at any level prior to his gig with the Pacers (JVG/Lawrence Frank/Eric Spolestra are a few others).

Even coaches like SVG and Tom Thibodeau had experience has head coaches in college.

I think he's an awesome candidate. I hadn't really thought about him seriously until I started reading up on his track record in Indy. When you look at him compared to Thibs, you begin to wonder why Vogel isn't held in higher regard.

Vogel:
Regular season: 250-181 (.580) - 2 Conference Titles
Playoffs: 31-30 (.508) - 2 first round, 1 conf semi's, 2 conf finals

Thibodeau:
Regular season: 255-139 (.647) - 1 Conference Title
Playoffs: 23-28 (.451) - 2 first round, 2 conf semi's, 1 conf finals

Vogel's team tend to overperform the in playoffs; Thibodeau has a reputation of squeezing every last ounce of effort in the regular season that they have no room to elevate their games come playoff time.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
martin
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5/5/2016  5:27 PM
callmened wrote:
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10M? Wow. What do you like about him?

he's been underrated and miscast from the start. hes that typical 3&D guy who can hit shots and play tenacious defense

You know what, I am beginning to think that this offseason is the year to get back of the rotation wing players. Batum and DeRozen are nice but probably over valued at max or near max prices, save those salary slots for next year when the big hitter are on the market.

My list: Bazemore, Lance Stephenson, Hill, Seth Curry UFA. Crabbee, Fournier on the RFA list.

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mreinman
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5/5/2016  5:28 PM
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10M? Wow. What do you like about him?

he's been underrated and miscast from the start. hes that typical 3&D guy who can hit shots and play tenacious defense

You know what, I am beginning to think that this offseason is the year to get back of the rotation wing players. Batum and DeRozen are nice but probably over valued at max or near max prices, save those salary slots for next year when the big hitter are on the market.

My list: Bazemore, Lance Stephenson, Hill, Seth Curry UFA. Crabbee, Fournier on the RFA list.

What prices would you pay for the guys on your list? Some of them will be quite expensive.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
crzymdups
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5/5/2016  5:30 PM
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Hahn supposedly reported that Bird fired him due to not holding players accountable and the PG didn't like him.

But there is no evidence of this. I mean they overachieved the last 2 yrs. Not really sign if lack of accountablity.

Bird making stuff up to justify himself?

Could be Hahn getting the MSG company line out there early in the game. He did something similar with Thibs if I remember. Remember, Dolan signs Hahn's checks.

Bird wanted PG13 to play power forward... I don't think PG13 wanted to play power forward. Though I know there were complaints about the offense in Indy... after Shaw left.

Maybe, Hahn isn't a total shill but him being Dolan's mouthpiece is relatively true


Hahn talks negatively about the Knicks all the time. In fact if you listen to what he's said today on his radio show it wasn't positive talk about Phil at all. He's not a shill as people keep trying to say. Just read his Twitter feed and you can tell he's speaking his mind.

If Hahn is paid by Dolan... and Hahn is badmouthing Phil... hmmmm...

I don't know why it's so hard for you to believe that tensions are running high in the billion dollar business known as the New York Knicks.

¿ △ ?
crzymdups
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5/5/2016  5:31 PM
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10M? Wow. What do you like about him?

he's been underrated and miscast from the start. hes that typical 3&D guy who can hit shots and play tenacious defense

You know what, I am beginning to think that this offseason is the year to get back of the rotation wing players. Batum and DeRozen are nice but probably over valued at max or near max prices, save those salary slots for next year when the big hitter are on the market.

My list: Bazemore, Lance Stephenson, Hill, Seth Curry UFA. Crabbee, Fournier on the RFA list.

I misspoke earlier about Lance being a free agent. He has a team option... curious to see if Memphis picks it up... he played very well there and seemed to fit their style. Though of course, they may also be firing their coach...

¿ △ ?
CrushAlot
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5/5/2016  5:33 PM
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10M? Wow. What do you like about him?

he's been underrated and miscast from the start. hes that typical 3&D guy who can hit shots and play tenacious defense

You know what, I am beginning to think that this offseason is the year to get back of the rotation wing players. Batum and DeRozen are nice but probably over valued at max or near max prices, save those salary slots for next year when the big hitter are on the market.

My list: Bazemore, Lance Stephenson, Hill, Seth Curry UFA. Crabbee, Fournier on the RFA list.

That is a great list.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
mreinman
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5/5/2016  5:34 PM
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

I like him too but I would not give a 10 million without him proving sustained minutes / production.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
martin
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5/5/2016  5:41 PM
crzymdups wrote:
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
martin wrote:
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10M? Wow. What do you like about him?

he's been underrated and miscast from the start. hes that typical 3&D guy who can hit shots and play tenacious defense

You know what, I am beginning to think that this offseason is the year to get back of the rotation wing players. Batum and DeRozen are nice but probably over valued at max or near max prices, save those salary slots for next year when the big hitter are on the market.

My list: Bazemore, Lance Stephenson, Hill, Seth Curry UFA. Crabbee, Fournier on the RFA list.

I misspoke earlier about Lance being a free agent. He has a team option... curious to see if Memphis picks it up... he played very well there and seemed to fit their style. Though of course, they may also be firing their coach...

Oh yeah, I missed that too, thought he was UFA

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callmened
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5/5/2016  6:08 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10m over 4 years is not bad $10m a year is $8m more than he has earned from his play so far. He had a decent year this year in less than 900 minutes. That is not even back up minutes.

fair point. in a normal yr I would give him 5 mill. but once this cap explodes starters will be getting 15 mill. I think hes worth 10.

am I right? who knows? its more an illustration of how much I like him as a player

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
CrushAlot
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5/5/2016  6:20 PM
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Finestrg
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5/5/2016  6:33 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/5/2016  6:36 PM
callmened wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:
callmened wrote:
Finestrg wrote:I want Solomon Hill in FA. I think hiring Vogel helps us get Hill. Also think Vogel is one hell of a head coach. Getting both would be a real score. Win-win all the way. I hope they explore both possibilities.

LOVE Solomon Hill. Im a BIG fan of his!!! id give him 10 mill easily. solid all around player who is hungry.

$10m over 4 years is not bad $10m a year is $8m more than he has earned from his play so far. He had a decent year this year in less than 900 minutes. That is not even back up minutes.

fair point. in a normal yr I would give him 5 mill. but once this cap explodes starters will be getting 15 mill. I think hes worth 10.

am I right? who knows? its more an illustration of how much I like him as a player

I understand your logic about the cap exploding -- I'm mean to be brutally honest though, I want these guys to get paid but I hope it's not that out of hand. Part of the reason I like him is I don't think he'd be that expensive, compared to guys like Batum, Turner, Fournier, Bazemore.. I think he could easily be as good if not better than any of those guys once he finally gets the same usage, but as of right now, I would hope to get him for far less those those 4. That would be my plan. Now I don't think he'd come dirt cheap--I think Indy likes him and I just read an article where Solo talked about how much he likes it there, how they drafted him and gave him his shot in the NBA, how he likes his teammates and how money won't be the sole factor in any decision he makes. He also talked about Vogel, how he told him to be ready for an opportunity at the end of the season/playoffs -- Vogel kept his word and started playing Hill at the end and I think that meant a lot to Hill. If we got Vogel, I think we could get Hill. I think it could give us a big leg up on any competition for his services, Indy and whoever else...It's all up to uncle Phil, though. Who knows if he even likes either guy, Vogel or Hill. A competitive contract, the opportunity to start at the 2 (why not?), to get more shots and to reunite with Vogel, a coach he likes and trusts. We offer that and I think we could get him.

I like everything about him. His size/strength, his underrated skill level and his ability to swing and play both 2 & 3. For me, he'd start at the 2, then swing over to backup 3 to pick up even more mins and shots. This guy could help us and would be a nice young piece to move forward with. No question in my mind.

nixluva
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5/5/2016  6:56 PM
crzymdups wrote:
nixluva wrote:
wargames wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
newyorknewyork wrote:Hahn supposedly reported that Bird fired him due to not holding players accountable and the PG didn't like him.

But there is no evidence of this. I mean they overachieved the last 2 yrs. Not really sign if lack of accountablity.

Bird making stuff up to justify himself?

Could be Hahn getting the MSG company line out there early in the game. He did something similar with Thibs if I remember. Remember, Dolan signs Hahn's checks.

Bird wanted PG13 to play power forward... I don't think PG13 wanted to play power forward. Though I know there were complaints about the offense in Indy... after Shaw left.

Maybe, Hahn isn't a total shill but him being Dolan's mouthpiece is relatively true


Hahn talks negatively about the Knicks all the time. In fact if you listen to what he's said today on his radio show it wasn't positive talk about Phil at all. He's not a shill as people keep trying to say. Just read his Twitter feed and you can tell he's speaking his mind.

If Hahn is paid by Dolan... and Hahn is badmouthing Phil... hmmmm...

I don't know why it's so hard for you to believe that tensions are running high in the billion dollar business known as the New York Knicks.


Your mistake is that you think Hahn is just a mouthpiece for Dolan. This man is not like that. He's been speaking his mind for a long time. The problem is that you assume if anyone is saying anything positive once in a while about the Knicks that they must be a company tool. Hahn has more going on than that and is like Breen in that he will diss the Knicks whenever he feels it's valid. Have you even read Hahn's tweets or listened to him on the radio?
newyorker4ever
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5/5/2016  7:00 PM
crzymdups wrote:
martin wrote:
crzymdups wrote:If you hire someone to do a job and then don't trust them to do the job, you did a bad job hiring and managing that person. This is on Phil. Whether you want to call it micro-managing or simply not managing well, Phil didn't do a good job.

Fish hiring and firing is definitely on Phil, no one will dispute you about that.

crzymdups wrote:That doesn't even get into the fact that Phil may or may not have been in NY at all for large parts of the season last year.

Why would you follow up something that may or may not be completely and utterly made up by you and unrelated to anything but your distaste for something you disagree with?

It's been widely reported that a) Fisher and Phil had communication issues and B) Phil does not spend the entire season in NYC. He splits season between NY and LA - this is not a secret. I just think it is hypocritical of a manager not being present and citing communication issues.

Hahaha you're such a Phil hater that as soon as someone proves to you that one thing you're saying is nonsense you bring up something else about Phil that nobody is even talking about. lol

newyorker4ever
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5/5/2016  7:02 PM
wargames wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:It sounds like everyone is already getting their hopes up that Phil will get Vogel when he CLEARLY has said he wants someone in his circle and someone that knows and runs his system which Vogel has neither one going for him. I'm not sure which teams are without a head coach right now besides Sacramento, Houston and our Knicks so not sure if Denver, NO and i thought i heard that Portland was maybe gonna get rid of their head coach but not sure so out of those three teams that for sure don't have a coach in place i can see Houston being a very attractive job for Vogel and i wouldn't doubt if they already put a call in to Vogel.

I just don't want everyone to get their hopes up that we could get Vogel just to get disappointed when it doesn't happen even though it sounds like everyone's hopes are already up for that to happen. I would love to get him and it sure does seem like he would fit in New York being from Jersey and having a lot of family still there that all come to the games when the Pacers come to the Garden. It's just that i could see Phil not even interviewing him because he doesn't fit any of the criteria that Phil said he wants and we all know how stubborn Phil is.

Hopefully Phil will at the very least give the guy an interview which would mean he's at least somewhat interested. Maybe we could get Vogel, Shaw, Rambis and Blatt....lol.

I think the most realistic goal should be Vogel and his people to run the defense, Rambis, Shaw, and Cleamons to run the offense, and keeping a few of the OKC guys who cam with fisher who are still under contract for development. The knicks aren't broke so why not get a superior coaching staff.

I'd be more than happy with Vogel as head coach and Rambis, Shaw, Cleamons on the bench but really don't care about the OKC guys that Fisher brought here.

OT-Frank Vogel official relieved from his duties as coach

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