martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:People say they're tired of the Triangle. Well I'm tired of hearing about PnR! PnR is not an entire offense. The Knicks do use PnR among other things.

The Pick and Roll is the single most effective basketball play. Full stop.

The Knicks do not use it. Fisher was fired for using it.

This is an oversimplification of high order. Fish was not fired for using PnR!!! Phil has always had some PnR but didn't depend on it. Funny how Phil won all those Titles not depending on PnR.

in a few years with some zen praying, perhpaps we can clone those players who did not need PnR. Now we are stuck with regular players who do.

Yeah! Thank you! "Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant didn't need the pick and roll" is not exactly an argument for why Jerian Grant and Kristaps Porzingis shouldn't do it ever.

Lakers ran 4/5 PnR so I don't see it as something new to the Triangle.

Read my sig lol

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:
I have to wonder how Phil ever got anything done without Analytics!!!

no way to really know, I guess

I think you're only making my case! Pop got Duncan before Analytics was a thing in the NBA. People wanna use this Analytics thing against Phil when they can't really say if it's led to any championships. In truth what need do you have for Analytics when deciding to select Lebron or Durant in the draft? When it comes to the franchise players most of the time you pretty much know who they are.

Tell that to the Blazers who took Greg Oden over Durant and Sam Bowie over Jordan.

I think the Bulls and Lakers front office deserve a fair amount of credit for building those dominant teams. Then hiring Phil after assembling the pieces. Pop is always quick to credit Buford.

I've just never seen a coach get as much credit as Phil
Jackson has for coaching two of the most dominant athletes in the history of sports.

you forgot shaq who to me was the most dominating player that I have ever seen.

nixluva wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:People say they're tired of the Triangle. Well I'm tired of hearing about PnR! PnR is not an entire offense. The Knicks do use PnR among other things.

The Pick and Roll is the single most effective basketball play. Full stop.

The Knicks do not use it. Fisher was fired for using it.

This is an oversimplification of high order. Fish was not fired for using PnR!!! Phil has always had some PnR but didn't depend on it. Funny how Phil won all those Titles not depending on PnR.

in a few years with some zen praying, perhpaps we can clone those players who did not need PnR. Now we are stuck with regular players who do.

Yeah! Thank you! "Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant didn't need the pick and roll" is not exactly an argument for why Jerian Grant and Kristaps Porzingis shouldn't do it ever.

Lakers ran 4/5 PnR so I don't see it as something new to the Triangle.

Read my sig lol

I mistakenly posted the video in response to a different post. This was the comment I was responding to.

crzymdups wrote:I agree there were other issues that led to Fisher's firing. But Rambis made it very clear multiple times, as did Phil, that he was deviating too much from the Triangle. I didn't see that Melo/Rolo 4/5 pick and roll ever again after Fisher was fired and it was highly effective. Do you have any example of them running the Melo/Rolo pick and roll after Fisher was fired? I did not see it.

I was just pointing out that 4/5 PnR wasn't something new Fish added since Phil did it with the Lakers.

Find one of Rambis running that with Melo and Rolo and you'll have answered my question.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

nixluva wrote:People say they're tired of the Triangle. Well I'm tired of hearing about PnR! PnR is not an entire offense. The Knicks do use PnR among other things.

The Pick and Roll is the single most effective basketball play. Full stop.

The Knicks do not use it. Fisher was fired for using it.

This is an oversimplification of high order. Fish was not fired for using PnR!!! Phil has always had some PnR but didn't depend on it. Funny how Phil won all those Titles not depending on PnR.

in a few years with some zen praying, perhpaps we can clone those players who did not need PnR. Now we are stuck with regular players who do.

Yeah! Thank you! "Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant didn't need the pick and roll" is not exactly an argument for why Jerian Grant and Kristaps Porzingis shouldn't do it ever.

Lakers ran 4/5 PnR so I don't see it as something new to the Triangle.

and? So they ran some pnr ... you keep missing the point.

did you see the stats posted this morning about the % of pnr the knicks run compared to the rest of the league?

To go off of any stats the Knicks put up in that horrible season is ridiculous.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

martin wrote:

mreinman wrote:did you see the stats posted this morning about the % of pnr the knicks run compared to the rest of the league?

When did the % of pnr for an offense become a point that was even valid? Why is that relevant?

read the article and how it lays that out. It ties into efficiency and driving opps.

Knicks had the fewest driving attempts in the league, no?

Jose Calderon, A.Afflalo as the starters so of course they had the fewest driving attempts but they won't have the fewest next year.

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

I want to see at least very strong improvement by the end of this season. If they are playing .500 ball and making/taking positive steps, I would be ok with that.

If we have another season of crap and have to make a ton of excuses for our crappy coach and why the triangle is still holding us back then I will not be happy at all.

I also dont want to be a better team short term by doing something really stupid and desperate like giving Conley or Derozen max money.

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

You realize Melo never missed the playoffs in his life until Phil came here, right?

Phil shouldn't get a medal for getting a Melo team to the playoffs, he should get a passing grade.

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

he won a 11 titles with 5 HOF(shaq, pip, MJ, Kobe,rodman), Tex winters (the creator of the triangle) and him coaching from his many yrs of experience.

That's no where near the same as, rambis, melo, Kp, rolo, and phil sitting in the stands.

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

Maybe you misunderstood what I meant. What I meant is...
As Prez, Phil brought in a certain amount of good talent during the offseason. (I believe that he did)
He brought in the coach that he believed in. This means that he believed that Fisher could maximize the potential of the players he brought in. (This is where he failed).
IF the coach was given the freedom to run the system that fit his players and he failed to because of various reasons, including lack of coaching ability, that's on Fisher. (Phil and Fisher both failed here).

If Fisher would have simplified the system to suit the TYPE OF TALENT he had, we would have won at least 10 more games.

We have the talent... we just didnt maximize it...That's what is on the front office and the coaches in communication with the front office. You are not going to convert Langston Galloway to Ray Allen suddenly, but at the same time, the production we saw from Gallo last season...we could have had the same level of production throughout this season.

What LT showed at the beginning of the season, that was something we could have had all season.
Melo's mins (due to age) and KP's mins (due to stamina) could have been monitored and managed better, but they weren't.
Backup center consistency could have been established with Seraphin or KOQ but it wasn't.
Assflac could have been asked to EARN the starting SG position (that might have resulted in better shot selection), but he wasn't.
Grant could have been sent to dleague but he wasn't. Antetokoumpo or Fredette could have been given a realistic shot to make an impact just as much as Grant was...but they weren't.

I mean the list goes on. Phil brought in the talent during the off-season and draft and it's like after that he stopped working for the rest of the season. Fisher and Rambis...evidence that Phil did not work tirelessly.

crzymdups wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Basketball is actually a simple game. It's real simple. Defend the ball, protect the rim, move the ball to get open shots. Riley's simple system? He adapts for his talent. He gets talent. He knows getting the talent is paramount and he's damn good at that. Showtime Lakers, Ewing and Oak Knicks, Shaq, Wade, and Bron's Heat.

Knicks have spent the past 20 years chasing systems - Don Nelson, MDA, now Phil.

Only time we had success after Riley left was when we hired his top lieutenant, JVG.

It's not really that complicated.

the knicks don't have enough talent to adapt to yet. when they get the requisite level of talent they will be better than average and then we can start thinking about adapting to that talent. and then that talent ought to be fundamentally sound as well, as in possessing the requisite skills.

that will take time and require patience. you can't undo 15 years of recklessness and chaos in two seasons.

This

This and That are BS....if you have great players you can pretty much run any system. We had enough talent to make the playoffs and we didn't, simple as that...that's on front office and coaches.

So by this post you are saying that in 2 years Phil has purged every player but Melo and rebuilt us a playoff caliber team in 2 years? Cause if one thing is right than so is the other... yea?

So if you believe Phil has restocked this roster with playoff talent, but because of their failure to grasp the system and execute they underachieved, for how long are you willing to be patient for these players to get this offense? I mean the guy won 11 rings with it, so how long to do give him before declaring it a failure? 20 games? 50? A season? 3? I want to hear your expectations. I am glad you believe in his ability to rebuild a roster.

You realize Melo never missed the playoffs in his life until Phil came here, right?

Phil shouldn't get a medal for getting a Melo team to the playoffs, he should get a passing grade.