knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:I loved everything Jackson said during the news conference. He said he came here to install a system and that is what he doing. He wants to develop players into complete players with the requisite basketball skills. He told the press to back off so players will want to come play in New York. He wants a coach he knows so there is continuity from top to bottom, and I imagine from continuity will spring cohesion, coherence, and a healthy, synergistic culture.

He's tuning out and infuriating the yahoos who want "names" and expect results right away. Good!

if he is going to flip the roster every off season, how is that continuity? winning teams don't do that, and when he coached he never had to deal with that

i think you and i have a different sense of time frame/time scale vis a vis damage done by dolan for a solid 15 years. the year-in year-out unwritten edict prior to jackson being hired was "win-now" and THAT is mainly what has caused upheaval up to and including trading for melo in 2011 and resigning him again with a no-trade clause to boot. i mean, we endured two years of roster flush with walsh and d'antoni, whereupon they were forced out of town by dolan, having had little to no opportunity to do anything lasting.

so yeah i agree with the 17-win season being "year zero" and this season being the first real year where jackson gets a chance to build a team, basically having torn it down a year ago. "year two" of the jackson era i expect to be another building year, shooting for .500 or even a low playoff seed.

this season i predicted 34 wins. they basically met my expectations. i will make another prediction, as we all will, when i have seen the new acquisitions jackson will have acquired. whoever he gets, i am certain it will be sensible acquisitions for young and healthy players who he deems will fit the triangle, not expensive players over twenty-eight years old.

i really wish my fellow new yorkers/knickerbocker fans could just pump the brakes a bit, take a deep breath, and let the man do work.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I thought the most interesting comments were about how the team played with Melo out. He acknowledged they were 0-10 but he also said they played some of their best games and should have won at least 4 of them. Credited the ball movement particularly.

Melo out - better ball movement. I know he had a better year passing but that comment makes me think its still not enough. From what I saw the end of game stuff was the same and that was ISO ball.

The context was more about him defending the roster he created around Melo. Wasn't really about claiming Melo was killing the ball movement. Though um sure Phil would always want Melo to move the ball more.

I watched the video, he does not say anything without purpose. He made a point to slip in ball movement. It was obvious to me.

For the record, I am not trying to bash Melo. I think he was better this year and showed he can be a good passer and fit in. I just found PJ's comment interesting.

The end of game plays are still awful for an NBA team.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:I loved everything Jackson said during the news conference. He said he came here to install a system and that is what he doing. He wants to develop players into complete players with the requisite basketball skills. He told the press to back off so players will want to come play in New York. He wants a coach he knows so there is continuity from top to bottom, and I imagine from continuity will spring cohesion, coherence, and a healthy, synergistic culture.

He's tuning out and infuriating the yahoos who want "names" and expect results right away. Good!

if he is going to flip the roster every off season, how is that continuity? winning teams don't do that, and when he coached he never had to deal with that

Isn't the idea to keep adding better talent? Whether it's the draft of Free Agency, teams should try to improve where they can. Most of the core players are likely to return. You really think if he can add 2-3 quality players that this kind of upgrade isn't going to have a NET POSITIVE impact? There will be enough roster stability to endure adding new players. Especially if they can play at a high level period.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:I loved everything Jackson said during the news conference. He said he came here to install a system and that is what he doing. He wants to develop players into complete players with the requisite basketball skills. He told the press to back off so players will want to come play in New York. He wants a coach he knows so there is continuity from top to bottom, and I imagine from continuity will spring cohesion, coherence, and a healthy, synergistic culture.

He's tuning out and infuriating the yahoos who want "names" and expect results right away. Good!

I agree for the most part. I wish that the group of people he is comfortable with for the coaching position was a bit larger.

rambis has not had the level of talent during his head coaching stints. i expect that if he gets hired back, that while he is here the talent and skill level will continue to rise, and it will be very easy to spot a coach who is out of his depth. give him the players and give him a chance.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:I loved everything Jackson said during the news conference. He said he came here to install a system and that is what he doing. He wants to develop players into complete players with the requisite basketball skills. He told the press to back off so players will want to come play in New York. He wants a coach he knows so there is continuity from top to bottom, and I imagine from continuity will spring cohesion, coherence, and a healthy, synergistic culture.

He's tuning out and infuriating the yahoos who want "names" and expect results right away. Good!

I agree for the most part. I wish that the group of people he is comfortable with for the coaching position was a bit larger.

rambis has not had the level of talent during his head coaching stints. i expect that if he gets hired back, that while he is here the talent and skill level will continue to rise, and it will be very easy to spot a coach who is out of his depth. give him the players and give him a chance.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:I loved everything Jackson said during the news conference. He said he came here to install a system and that is what he doing. He wants to develop players into complete players with the requisite basketball skills. He told the press to back off so players will want to come play in New York. He wants a coach he knows so there is continuity from top to bottom, and I imagine from continuity will spring cohesion, coherence, and a healthy, synergistic culture.

He's tuning out and infuriating the yahoos who want "names" and expect results right away. Good!

I agree for the most part. I wish that the group of people he is comfortable with for the coaching position was a bit larger.

rambis has not had the level of talent during his head coaching stints. i expect that if he gets hired back, that while he is here the talent and skill level will continue to rise, and it will be very easy to spot a coach who is out of his depth. give him the players and give him a chance.

I am a bit concerned with how the team responded to Rambis. Vets having to go and ask for the younger players to get some minutes wasn't a good look. I may have missed something but I haven't read anything from a knick player giving him an endorsement.

There was an article I saw a couple days ago about how players feel Rambis talks down to them. Didn't really have much detail other then that though. I will try to find it.

edit:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241528/knicks-players-feel-kurt-rambis-talks-down-to-them

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I thought the most interesting comments were about how the team played with Melo out. He acknowledged they were 0-10 but he also said they played some of their best games and should have won at least 4 of them. Credited the ball movement particularly.

Melo out - better ball movement. I know he had a better year passing but that comment makes me think its still not enough. From what I saw the end of game stuff was the same and that was ISO ball.

The context was more about him defending the roster he created around Melo. Wasn't really about claiming Melo was killing the ball movement. Though um sure Phil would always want Melo to move the ball more.

I watched the video, he does not say anything without purpose. He made a point to slip in ball movement. It was obvious to me.

For the record, I am not trying to bash Melo. I think he was better this year and showed he can be a good passer and fit in. I just found PJ's comment interesting.

The end of game plays are still awful for an NBA team.

I agree about his comments. He also made a point of praising Jose and KP. I might be mistaken but I believe he makes a point of not praising Melo (i.e. we talked to the guys that you guys consider leaders on this team, agents have contacted us about players wanting to play with KP).

I had to go back and re-watch that part to see if I'm trippin. But its even clearer now that I saw it again. The reporter talks about how they didn't sign any big time stars in FA. And that while they landed D.Williams etc that it wasn't who they(media/fans) were hoping for. Then goes on to say that without Melo they didn't win any games. Then the reporter made the statement that it seems like they need another superstar player. Phil then replies about the games they should have won and how they played some of there best games while Melo was out. But also added "The ways Carmelo can help you we didn't have". "But we played better as a basketball club in some strange ways, Lance playing in the position, ball movement, whatever, but we did not(commercial sidetrack)".

The next question was about Melo's no trade clause. And he asked if they want to still build around Melo or look for some changes. And Phil reiterated that Melo wanted to be in NY. That Melo has communicated openly to everyone including the media that he wanted to be in NY. Doesn't really answer any questions of Phil's personal desires but he basically stated that Melo is apart of the plans since he wants to be in NY. But we can all expect Phil to do what he wants in terms of building the team and coaching staff.

CrushAlot wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:I thought the most interesting comments were about how the team played with Melo out. He acknowledged they were 0-10 but he also said they played some of their best games and should have won at least 4 of them. Credited the ball movement particularly.

Melo out - better ball movement. I know he had a better year passing but that comment makes me think its still not enough. From what I saw the end of game stuff was the same and that was ISO ball.

The context was more about him defending the roster he created around Melo. Wasn't really about claiming Melo was killing the ball movement. Though um sure Phil would always want Melo to move the ball more.

I watched the video, he does not say anything without purpose. He made a point to slip in ball movement. It was obvious to me.

For the record, I am not trying to bash Melo. I think he was better this year and showed he can be a good passer and fit in. I just found PJ's comment interesting.

The end of game plays are still awful for an NBA team.

I agree about his comments. He also made a point of praising Jose and KP. I might be mistaken but I believe he makes a point of not praising Melo (i.e. we talked to the guys that you guys consider leaders on this team, agents have contacted us about players wanting to play with KP).

I had to go back and re-watch that part to see if I'm trippin. But its even clearer now that I saw it again. The reporter talks about how they didn't sign any big time stars in FA. And that while they landed D.Williams etc that it wasn't who they(media/fans) were hoping for. Then goes on to say that without Melo they didn't win any games. Then the reporter made the statement that it seems like they need another superstar player. Phil then replies about the games they should have won and how they played some of there best games while Melo was out. But also added "The ways Carmelo can help you we didn't have". "But we played better as a basketball club in some strange ways, Lance playing in the position, ball movement, whatever, but we did not(commercial sidetrack)".

The next question was about Melo's no trade clause. And he asked if they want to still build around Melo or look for some changes. And Phil reiterated that Melo wanted to be in NY. That Melo has communicated openly to everyone including the media that he wanted to be in NY. Doesn't really answer any questions of Phil's personal desires but he basically stated that Melo is apart of the plans since he wants to be in NY. But we can all expect Phil to do what he wants in terms of building the team and coaching staff.

I will have to watch it again. I missed the part about Lance but Lance only played in 5 of the games Melo was out.

I believe he was naming various things that happen. It wasn't purely about how much better the ball movement was without Melo.

newyorknewyork wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:I loved everything Jackson said during the news conference. He said he came here to install a system and that is what he doing. He wants to develop players into complete players with the requisite basketball skills. He told the press to back off so players will want to come play in New York. He wants a coach he knows so there is continuity from top to bottom, and I imagine from continuity will spring cohesion, coherence, and a healthy, synergistic culture.

He's tuning out and infuriating the yahoos who want "names" and expect results right away. Good!

I agree for the most part. I wish that the group of people he is comfortable with for the coaching position was a bit larger.

rambis has not had the level of talent during his head coaching stints. i expect that if he gets hired back, that while he is here the talent and skill level will continue to rise, and it will be very easy to spot a coach who is out of his depth. give him the players and give him a chance.

I am a bit concerned with how the team responded to Rambis. Vets having to go and ask for the younger players to get some minutes wasn't a good look. I may have missed something but I haven't read anything from a knick player giving him an endorsement.

There was an article I saw a couple days ago about how players feel Rambis talks down to them. Didn't really have much detail other then that though. I will try to find it.

edit:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/241528/knicks-players-feel-kurt-rambis-talks-down-to-them

just to be sure, this is the full context of the "talking down to", and it's 1 player who may have implied it, not "Knicks players". And the whole thing is butted against the AA benching thing.

According to one Knick, the general feeling is that Rambis talks down to them.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/isola-phil-jackson-hire-tom-thibodeau-article-1.2596979

dk7th wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

dk7th wrote:I loved everything Jackson said during the news conference. He said he came here to install a system and that is what he doing. He wants to develop players into complete players with the requisite basketball skills. He told the press to back off so players will want to come play in New York. He wants a coach he knows so there is continuity from top to bottom, and I imagine from continuity will spring cohesion, coherence, and a healthy, synergistic culture.

He's tuning out and infuriating the yahoos who want "names" and expect results right away. Good!

Excellent post and spot on. After listening to all the available exit interviews its obvious Phil and Melo are here to stay. It's also obvious that Thibs will not be coaching the Knicks for two reasons; 1.) Thibs has a reputation of tangling with management in unproductive ways and 2.) the Knicks have a 10+ year superstar on their hands with Porzingus who might last four years without injury with Thibs.

Also obvious was the fact that Jerian Grant had not earned playing time in Phil's eyes which means Rambis wasn't playing to win to pad his record as is widely speculated. The entire narrative that veterans needed to step in and insist Rambis play youth is only partially true. They may have asked but Rambis was sending an important message - "get with the program [e.g. system]". It's a message that makes sense and demonstrates, contrary to the popular belief that Rambis is a shill, that Rambis instead listens closely to Jackson's directives and tailor's the minute management and player chemistry to maximize learning. Reluctant learners [say, Afflalo and others] likely consider this commitment to system and learning "condescending".

Carmelo's closing comments were instructive. He thought the Knicks coulda/shoulda won a dozen or so more games and that's worth repeating because he [supporting my own point of view] thinks the Knicks had the talent to do that. They do. But as Jackson pointed out in his own interview, the Knicks lacked tensile strength. This is a function of team and player maturity rather than pure talent. Aside from this being the end of the Jackson Knicks Year One experience, it marks the beginning of a sophomore year for Galloway, Porzingis, Early, and Grant. All these players are going to continue to mature and become dominant.

Williams and Thomas were prominently mentioned in glowing remarks by Jackson. He'll likely reach out to both men with offers to stay.

Given Phil's pattern from last summer I expect him to trade for at least a second-round pick - Gaines probably already has an idea or two along those lines. And his Free agent signings will be low-profile, blue collar players along the lines of Matt Barnes, Evan Turner, Rondo, Teletovic, Pachulia, and Mahinmi.

yeah don't get me started on afflalo. he's a bit of a sulker. i really made a mistake in my estimation of him as a player and a teammate. but anybody who plays for the knicks has to, as you say, get with the program.

you can't win without a plan, and the dolan era has been defined by a lack of a plan and in my opinion dolan's sociopathic impulsivity.

that said, phil made a mistake with afflalo and i think cleanthony early as well. no gm is going to bat a thousand, especially in rebuilding.

I think Afflalo has a touch of manic-depression. His on again/off again performances cost the Knicks 5-10 games. If he stays I hope he gets some counseling. He does sulk and did not at all like taking any corrective guidance from Rambis. The press played this up as a Rambis failure to communicate but honestly Afflalo who is getting paid multi-millions to be a professional acted like a child with recriminations and festering tweets about the coach. He needs a change of scenery.

It should also be mentioned that Phil brought in Afflalo because he and Anthony were kindred spirits - presumably both rowing in the same direction. There was occasional evidence of that but by mid-season Afflalo was MIA. This is not on Melo or Phil. Both had reason to believe Afflalo would be a better JR Smith. Melo in defending Afflalo is being a loyal friend but a foolish teammate. Rambis is not the problem, Afflalo is and it may not be fixable since behavior and emotional stability are not a matter of improving skill. counseling and medication could help assuming a millionaire, occasional prima donna can do what's right.

This folds into the broader discussion that Phil has been making mistakes and blundering his way through his management duties. That is inaccurate. Identifying players and signing FAs is an exercise in risk assessment. Like stock picking, sometimes you win big and other times not. From a bird's eye view, today Phil has won far more than he's lost - but he has lost. That's a function of being in the game.

An example of a loss that's never talked about and is only apparent at this season's end was the decision to let Cole Aldrich walk. Aldrich played and continues to play a much better backup last year and this than either O'Quinn or Seraphin have for the Knicks. And Aldrich had no problem fitting into the system. Signing O'Quinn and Seraphin remains defensible but it also exposes an example of risk mitigation. Aldrich was associated with the 17 win season while O'Quinn and Seraphin looked to be potential steals.

CleAnthony Early is a different example of risk. Early was projected as a first-rounder and dropped through to a position the Knicks could draft him at in the second-round. He didn't arrive a superstar or even a rotation player so its easy to criticize his presence on the team. But again, players like Galloway, Grant, Early and others routinely take 3-5 years to mature. That's just the way things work. Fans who roast the Knicks for letting youth get away need to take a deep breath because in the name of trashing Phil, they are advocating the same thing.