crzymdups wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I'm still confused at the low number. Did people not see what players got last summer in a lower cap or what Orlando did with Tobias Harris? If the offer is low they will sign him and keep him to trade him.

I agree with this. I don't see a single team letting an RFA walk. If Allen Crabbe signed an $8M a year offer sheet with the Knicks, I think Portland would do a little dance of celebration... then wait the full three days to match, tying up our cap space.

I don't think it's as simple as that. We know from personal experience a team can make an offer that we don't want to match

Both Portland and Milwaukee have a lot of young pieces that they can't all pay market value as some guys in particular are going to chew up huge fraction of cap. Portland for example will have huge commitments to CJ and lillard

wargames wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

wargames wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:Portland has $56M in committed salary next season. They could sign Al Horford to a $23M max and still give Crabbe $12M and still have room for more.

Harkless($7.2m), Meyers Lenard($7.7m), Crabbe($2.7m), Henderson($9m). All RFA? Gotta pick and choose.

Very true they have another $26m committed to those players in Cap holds and another $10m to Kaman and Roberts, both likely rescinded.

Also, I believe the $56m is wrong, according to Spotrac they have $48m in active contracts and dead money. So really they have $48m + $26m = $74m tied uo to their team and their top r/FAs. That still leaves them with around $18m in FA money to use. They could spread that money on their FAs to give them raises and still have money left over.

Also, everyone except Henderson is restricted which gives them the ability to go over the cap to sign them. The only saving grace is the following year that they have to pay McCollom and Plumlee. They could enter extension talks this summer with those players so that may help.

The issue is they need a rim protector Big who can also score a little. Someone like Dwight, Whiteside, Horford. They might get something like that for 18 but then they got to have that 18 in space free of cap holds to sign them. Also they would probably want to go into extension talks with Plumlee and McCollum sooner than Later.

A offer of 10-14 for their backup SG would be a tough pill to swallow especially if it makes it hard for them to make other moves. On the flip 10-14 for a starting SG while a lot is offset by the fact all the PG's are on basically rookie deals for 2 years.

wargames--I think if I have to go well beyond whats necessary Ill lay off the first rd of free agency and sign a one year deal with a player whos left over.

I mean honestly I think Crabbe is way down the pole of priorities for the Blazers. He could be a starter in NY, but he's probably only ever a a bench reserve for them, he's not even a key reserve. I think he'll be 10-14, but likely closer to 10.

I'm in this camp. He's a nice player but let's not go nuts here. Portland seemingly finds these guys at will

I don't see them spending that much on him. He's worth more to other teams. Just because Portland has been smart w its cap and drafting doesn't mean they should go crazy now. They're in a position of strength.

Chandler wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:bazemore = 12-14mill
- 3&D player
- athletic wing
- great in fast break

Crabbe = 10-12 mill
- spot up shooter
- average/above average defender

keep in mind, do EITHER of these guys wanna come to the knicks?

Though Bazemore and Crabbe are solid players, I'd prefer we not tie up that much money in a 2G or any player in this summer's FA for that matter not named Kevin Durant. I'd prefer we look at less expensive alternatives while keeping some financial flexibility moving forward. Here's the 4 SGs I'd target in order (up to me, 3 out of these 4 guys would be Knicks next year):

1a. Solomon Hill - if we offered this guy a fair raise, the starting 2G spot (along with additional time at the 3) and more PT/shots than he got this year, we could get him. Getting Frank Vogel, a coach Hill's familiar with and came to trust at the end of the season, would double our chances, plus we could use Vogel anyway. Win-win.

1b. PJ Hairston - my 2nd choice if we lost out on Hill. Far less expensive than Bazemore/Crabbe and I think he's got just as good if not better upside to boot.

2. Terrico White - quality depth for a rockbottom price. Could develop quickly into just as good a player as Allen Crabbe, maybe better, and for a fraction of the cost. Plays a very similar game to Crabbe--might be just as good a shooter only White's a better athlete.

3. Jabari Brown - love the pitbull/scorer's mentality. Could be a real solid scorer off the bench for cheap money. Already proved with the Lakers he can play in the NBA.

I like this thinking. I would add demar to KD if the front office thinks he will continue to develop
The best front offices find diamonds in the rough and don't only deal w known Commodities. This is essential in a cap system. How do you get better talent than the next guy for (in theory) the same money. There are only a few ways. 1) find diamonds. 2) draft and develop on early/rookie contracts 3) get guys to take less than market 4) be lucky enough to get a guy like lebron Or KD who are worth more than max contracts.

In reality the cap hurts the weaker teams. Economic theory would say they have to pay more than a contending team for the same player to compensate for the inferior situation.

Ugh, DeMar has had such a bad playoffs that I'd be so hesitant to sign him. And then you add in the NY aspect/pressure to things, he would melt.

Finestrg, you like PJ Hairston? Haven't seen him play but what's his upside?

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:bazemore = 12-14mill
- 3&D player
- athletic wing
- great in fast break

Crabbe = 10-12 mill
- spot up shooter
- average/above average defender

keep in mind, do EITHER of these guys wanna come to the knicks?

Though Bazemore and Crabbe are solid players, I'd prefer we not tie up that much money in a 2G or any player in this summer's FA for that matter not named Kevin Durant. I'd prefer we look at less expensive alternatives while keeping some financial flexibility moving forward. Here's the 4 SGs I'd target in order (up to me, 3 out of these 4 guys would be Knicks next year):

1a. Solomon Hill - if we offered this guy a fair raise, the starting 2G spot (along with additional time at the 3) and more PT/shots than he got this year, we could get him. Getting Frank Vogel, a coach Hill's familiar with and came to trust at the end of the season, would double our chances, plus we could use Vogel anyway. Win-win.

1b. PJ Hairston - my 2nd choice if we lost out on Hill. Far less expensive than Bazemore/Crabbe and I think he's got just as good if not better upside to boot.

2. Terrico White - quality depth for a rockbottom price. Could develop quickly into just as good a player as Allen Crabbe, maybe better, and for a fraction of the cost. Plays a very similar game to Crabbe--might be just as good a shooter only White's a better athlete.

3. Jabari Brown - love the pitbull/scorer's mentality. Could be a real solid scorer off the bench for cheap money. Already proved with the Lakers he can play in the NBA.

I like this thinking. I would add demar to KD if the front office thinks he will continue to develop
The best front offices find diamonds in the rough and don't only deal w known Commodities. This is essential in a cap system. How do you get better talent than the next guy for (in theory) the same money. There are only a few ways. 1) find diamonds. 2) draft and develop on early/rookie contracts 3) get guys to take less than market 4) be lucky enough to get a guy like lebron Or KD who are worth more than max contracts.

In reality the cap hurts the weaker teams. Economic theory would say they have to pay more than a contending team for the same player to compensate for the inferior situation.

Ugh, DeMar has had such a bad playoffs that I'd be so hesitant to sign him. And then you add in the NY aspect/pressure to things, he would melt.

Finestrg, you like PJ Hairston? Haven't seen him play but what's his upside?

Yeah you have to wonder about DeRozan and Lowry. Both have had historically bad playoffs. Look at Lowry from last playoffs too. Equally bad. There is more to that than slump. Not everyone is build for that expectation and change of pace in the playoffs. With the way those guys have been, Knicks fans would have eaten them alive.

Knixkik wrote:

reub wrote:Demar's bad playoff might make him more available and could lower his price.

I doubt it. Maybe with a couple of teams, but most will still pay him the same.

I don't think it'll lower his price. Though I do wonder if it will make him more likely to leave for another team.

I keep thinking Toronto is out of the playoffs, then being surprised they're actually tied 2-2 with the Heat.

The stance--I think its like this with aggression

Crabbe 5 years 70 mm 14 mm

Seth Curry 5 years 38.5mm 7.75mm

nixluva wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:He is a shooter that plays with 2 strong ball handling, penetrating, playmakers in Lillard and CJ. We need players more of the penetration/playmaking skill set then the off the ball shooting skill set.

That's a very key point. We need 2 backcourt players that are a threat with the ball and without the ball, that can create their own shot but also make the pass. Hopefully with size, athletic ability and some defense.

Actually this is where you try to maximize talent on the team. Two year contract with team option for year 3, get players with high upside.

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:bazemore = 12-14mill
- 3&D player
- athletic wing
- great in fast break

Crabbe = 10-12 mill
- spot up shooter
- average/above average defender

keep in mind, do EITHER of these guys wanna come to the knicks?

Though Bazemore and Crabbe are solid players, I'd prefer we not tie up that much money in a 2G or any player in this summer's FA for that matter not named Kevin Durant. I'd prefer we look at less expensive alternatives while keeping some financial flexibility moving forward. Here's the 4 SGs I'd target in order (up to me, 3 out of these 4 guys would be Knicks next year):

1a. Solomon Hill - if we offered this guy a fair raise, the starting 2G spot (along with additional time at the 3) and more PT/shots than he got this year, we could get him. Getting Frank Vogel, a coach Hill's familiar with and came to trust at the end of the season, would double our chances, plus we could use Vogel anyway. Win-win.

1b. PJ Hairston - my 2nd choice if we lost out on Hill. Far less expensive than Bazemore/Crabbe and I think he's got just as good if not better upside to boot.

2. Terrico White - quality depth for a rockbottom price. Could develop quickly into just as good a player as Allen Crabbe, maybe better, and for a fraction of the cost. Plays a very similar game to Crabbe--might be just as good a shooter only White's a better athlete.

3. Jabari Brown - love the pitbull/scorer's mentality. Could be a real solid scorer off the bench for cheap money. Already proved with the Lakers he can play in the NBA.

I like this thinking. I would add demar to KD if the front office thinks he will continue to develop
The best front offices find diamonds in the rough and don't only deal w known Commodities. This is essential in a cap system. How do you get better talent than the next guy for (in theory) the same money. There are only a few ways. 1) find diamonds. 2) draft and develop on early/rookie contracts 3) get guys to take less than market 4) be lucky enough to get a guy like lebron Or KD who are worth more than max contracts.

In reality the cap hurts the weaker teams. Economic theory would say they have to pay more than a contending team for the same player to compensate for the inferior situation.

Ugh, DeMar has had such a bad playoffs that I'd be so hesitant to sign him. And then you add in the NY aspect/pressure to things, he would melt.

Finestrg, you like PJ Hairston? Haven't seen him play but what's his upside?

Hairston's 6'5"+ 230, strong and only 23 years old. Knock-down shooter potential and I think he may put it on the floor and play D a little better than Crabbe (the few times Hairston's matched up against Melo on D in the past, he's impressed me. Melo got his but Hairston was always engaged, dug in, held his ground and made Melo really work, all while technically playing out of position). Crabbe averaged 10.3 ppg on 8.4 shots per game in 26 mins. Bazemore: 11.6 on 9.7 shots per in 27.8 mins. The numbers for Hairston don't look nearly as impressive but I think there were factors that contributed to it -- uneven PT/undefined roles, injuries, changing teams...Hairston had a solid sophomore season at Carolina and excelled in the DL--that's got to be taken into account, not just the poor year he had this year. That body of work got him drafted in the 1st round. The talent's obviously there -- there's no question Hairston has the potential to put up numbers just as good if not better than Bazemore or Crabbe with similar usage. And what I really like is that we could probably get Hairston for less than half what Bazemore and Crabbe wind up getting.

Finestrg wrote:

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

callmened wrote:bazemore = 12-14mill
- 3&D player
- athletic wing
- great in fast break

Crabbe = 10-12 mill
- spot up shooter
- average/above average defender

keep in mind, do EITHER of these guys wanna come to the knicks?

Though Bazemore and Crabbe are solid players, I'd prefer we not tie up that much money in a 2G or any player in this summer's FA for that matter not named Kevin Durant. I'd prefer we look at less expensive alternatives while keeping some financial flexibility moving forward. Here's the 4 SGs I'd target in order (up to me, 3 out of these 4 guys would be Knicks next year):

1a. Solomon Hill - if we offered this guy a fair raise, the starting 2G spot (along with additional time at the 3) and more PT/shots than he got this year, we could get him. Getting Frank Vogel, a coach Hill's familiar with and came to trust at the end of the season, would double our chances, plus we could use Vogel anyway. Win-win.

1b. PJ Hairston - my 2nd choice if we lost out on Hill. Far less expensive than Bazemore/Crabbe and I think he's got just as good if not better upside to boot.

2. Terrico White - quality depth for a rockbottom price. Could develop quickly into just as good a player as Allen Crabbe, maybe better, and for a fraction of the cost. Plays a very similar game to Crabbe--might be just as good a shooter only White's a better athlete.

3. Jabari Brown - love the pitbull/scorer's mentality. Could be a real solid scorer off the bench for cheap money. Already proved with the Lakers he can play in the NBA.

I like this thinking. I would add demar to KD if the front office thinks he will continue to develop
The best front offices find diamonds in the rough and don't only deal w known Commodities. This is essential in a cap system. How do you get better talent than the next guy for (in theory) the same money. There are only a few ways. 1) find diamonds. 2) draft and develop on early/rookie contracts 3) get guys to take less than market 4) be lucky enough to get a guy like lebron Or KD who are worth more than max contracts.

In reality the cap hurts the weaker teams. Economic theory would say they have to pay more than a contending team for the same player to compensate for the inferior situation.

Ugh, DeMar has had such a bad playoffs that I'd be so hesitant to sign him. And then you add in the NY aspect/pressure to things, he would melt.

Finestrg, you like PJ Hairston? Haven't seen him play but what's his upside?

Hairston's 6'5"+ 230, strong and only 23 years old. Knock-down shooter potential and I think he may put it on the floor and play D a little better than Crabbe (the few times Hairston's matched up against Melo on D in the past, he's impressed me. Melo got his but Hairston was always engaged, dug in, held his ground and made Melo really work, all while technically playing out of position). Crabbe averaged 10.3 ppg on 8.4 shots per game in 26 mins. Bazemore: 11.6 on 9.7 shots per in 27.8 mins. The numbers for Hairston don't look nearly as impressive but I think there were factors that contributed to it -- uneven PT/undefined roles, injuries, changing teams...Hairston had a solid sophomore season at Carolina and excelled in the DL--that's got to be taken into account, not just the poor year he had this year. That body of work got him drafted in the 1st round. The talent's obviously there -- there's no question Hairston has the potential to put up numbers just as good if not better than Bazemore or Crabbe with similar usage. And what I really like is that we could probably get Hairston for less than half what Bazemore and Crabbe wind up getting.

The knicks could probably get him for a vet min amount. He's really under the radar and worth taking a flyer on based on your description.