crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:http://basketballbloggers.sportsblog.com/posts/3361/isiah_thomas_or_chris_paul.html

and this was only as of 2013.

they played in completely different eras - Chris Paul never had to deal with the hand check rules Isiah did. Isiah won a college championship and two NBA titles and played in three straight finals and might've won three straight if he hadn't badly sprained his ankle.

I mean, stats are cute, but maybe Chris Paul should harness some of those stats to get out of the second round for the first time in his life (he won't) before you compare him to Isiah Thomas who beat Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan in their primes.

And any statistical analysis of Chris Paul vs Isiah Thomas that says Chris Paul is a "much better" defender than Isiah Thomas needs to go right back to grade school.

ok ... for starters, cp3 is miles and miles better than Isiah defensively. No idea where you are going with that but please don't try to make them close.

And you keep talking about Isiah as if he is a tennis player. He's not. He had a great (and dirty) team. And, in many ways Dumars was better than he was (though Isiah was better than Dumars).

How come hand check rules did not stop stockton from be way more efficient?

Is it possible that in an era that stats were not tracked we only remember the flashiness and the wins?

How come Magic was so super efficient? Jordan?

And I'm not saying that Isiah was not one of the top PG's, I just think that based on the era and lack of knowledge, he is judged a bit incorrectly.

I am still waiting for an argument other than not winning a ring what Isiah is better than Cp3. Strange that there is not one.

Hand check rules went into effect in 1995, after Isiah retired, but while Stockton was still very much active. Stockton didn't make the finals til the hand check rules came into play. Coincidence? Isiah could've averaged 35ppg with hand check rules in place.

But no, you're right, CP3 is the best player ever to play the game. It's just so weird that the other great players could win big games. I wonder how many times Isiah Thomas blew a 3-1 lead in a best of 7 series?

You never actually hit the nail on the head with your arguments. Stockton was super super efficient before 1995 and no one player blows a series unless they sucked and personally blew it. Again, CP3 has been one of the most efficient and successful players of all time. Replace magic with him, you don't think he wins a ring? Did the Clippers or NOH have a Karl Malone? Did Stockton lose the championship ring for the Jazz?

You are making way too many circular arguments.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:http://basketballbloggers.sportsblog.com/posts/3361/isiah_thomas_or_chris_paul.html

and this was only as of 2013.

they played in completely different eras - Chris Paul never had to deal with the hand check rules Isiah did. Isiah won a college championship and two NBA titles and played in three straight finals and might've won three straight if he hadn't badly sprained his ankle.

I mean, stats are cute, but maybe Chris Paul should harness some of those stats to get out of the second round for the first time in his life (he won't) before you compare him to Isiah Thomas who beat Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan in their primes.

And any statistical analysis of Chris Paul vs Isiah Thomas that says Chris Paul is a "much better" defender than Isiah Thomas needs to go right back to grade school.

ok ... for starters, cp3 is miles and miles better than Isiah defensively. No idea where you are going with that but please don't try to make them close.

And you keep talking about Isiah as if he is a tennis player. He's not. He had a great (and dirty) team. And, in many ways Dumars was better than he was (though Isiah was better than Dumars).

How come hand check rules did not stop stockton from be way more efficient?

Is it possible that in an era that stats were not tracked we only remember the flashiness and the wins?

How come Magic was so super efficient? Jordan?

And I'm not saying that Isiah was not one of the top PG's, I just think that based on the era and lack of knowledge, he is judged a bit incorrectly.

I am still waiting for an argument other than not winning a ring what Isiah is better than Cp3. Strange that there is not one.

Hand check rules went into effect in 1995, after Isiah retired, but while Stockton was still very much active. Stockton didn't make the finals til the hand check rules came into play. Coincidence? Isiah could've averaged 35ppg with hand check rules in place.

But no, you're right, CP3 is the best player ever to play the game. It's just so weird that the other great players could win big games. I wonder how many times Isiah Thomas blew a 3-1 lead in a best of 7 series?

You never actually hit the nail on the head with your arguments. Stockton was super super efficient before 1995 and no one player blows a series unless they sucked and personally blew it. Again, CP3 has been one of the most efficient and successful players of all time. Replace magic with him, you don't think he wins a ring? Did the Clippers or NOH have a Karl Malone? Did Stockton lose the championship ring for the Jazz?

You are making way too many circular arguments.

Actually, yes, I think if the Clippers team had Magic Johnson, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, JJ Reddick, Jamal Crawford they would win a chip.

and maybe they don't make the playoffs.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:http://basketballbloggers.sportsblog.com/posts/3361/isiah_thomas_or_chris_paul.html

and this was only as of 2013.

they played in completely different eras - Chris Paul never had to deal with the hand check rules Isiah did. Isiah won a college championship and two NBA titles and played in three straight finals and might've won three straight if he hadn't badly sprained his ankle.

I mean, stats are cute, but maybe Chris Paul should harness some of those stats to get out of the second round for the first time in his life (he won't) before you compare him to Isiah Thomas who beat Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan in their primes.

And any statistical analysis of Chris Paul vs Isiah Thomas that says Chris Paul is a "much better" defender than Isiah Thomas needs to go right back to grade school.

ok ... for starters, cp3 is miles and miles better than Isiah defensively. No idea where you are going with that but please don't try to make them close.

And you keep talking about Isiah as if he is a tennis player. He's not. He had a great (and dirty) team. And, in many ways Dumars was better than he was (though Isiah was better than Dumars).

How come hand check rules did not stop stockton from be way more efficient?

Is it possible that in an era that stats were not tracked we only remember the flashiness and the wins?

How come Magic was so super efficient? Jordan?

And I'm not saying that Isiah was not one of the top PG's, I just think that based on the era and lack of knowledge, he is judged a bit incorrectly.

I am still waiting for an argument other than not winning a ring what Isiah is better than Cp3. Strange that there is not one.

Hand check rules went into effect in 1995, after Isiah retired, but while Stockton was still very much active. Stockton didn't make the finals til the hand check rules came into play. Coincidence? Isiah could've averaged 35ppg with hand check rules in place.

But no, you're right, CP3 is the best player ever to play the game. It's just so weird that the other great players could win big games. I wonder how many times Isiah Thomas blew a 3-1 lead in a best of 7 series?

You never actually hit the nail on the head with your arguments. Stockton was super super efficient before 1995 and no one player blows a series unless they sucked and personally blew it. Again, CP3 has been one of the most efficient and successful players of all time. Replace magic with him, you don't think he wins a ring? Did the Clippers or NOH have a Karl Malone? Did Stockton lose the championship ring for the Jazz?

You are making way too many circular arguments.

Actually, yes, I think if the Clippers team had Magic Johnson, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, JJ Reddick, Jamal Crawford they would win a chip.

and maybe they don't make the playoffs.

LOL. Keep telling yourself that.

I don't believe that but its the same silly circular arg.

its incredible how a guy that plays so perfect does not get credit because he is not liked.

AI who chucked like a retard went to the finals so he is great. Lets ignore that he missed more shots than anyone but he looked great doing it.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:http://basketballbloggers.sportsblog.com/posts/3361/isiah_thomas_or_chris_paul.html

and this was only as of 2013.

they played in completely different eras - Chris Paul never had to deal with the hand check rules Isiah did. Isiah won a college championship and two NBA titles and played in three straight finals and might've won three straight if he hadn't badly sprained his ankle.

I mean, stats are cute, but maybe Chris Paul should harness some of those stats to get out of the second round for the first time in his life (he won't) before you compare him to Isiah Thomas who beat Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan in their primes.

And any statistical analysis of Chris Paul vs Isiah Thomas that says Chris Paul is a "much better" defender than Isiah Thomas needs to go right back to grade school.

ok ... for starters, cp3 is miles and miles better than Isiah defensively. No idea where you are going with that but please don't try to make them close.

And you keep talking about Isiah as if he is a tennis player. He's not. He had a great (and dirty) team. And, in many ways Dumars was better than he was (though Isiah was better than Dumars).

How come hand check rules did not stop stockton from be way more efficient?

Is it possible that in an era that stats were not tracked we only remember the flashiness and the wins?

How come Magic was so super efficient? Jordan?

And I'm not saying that Isiah was not one of the top PG's, I just think that based on the era and lack of knowledge, he is judged a bit incorrectly.

I am still waiting for an argument other than not winning a ring what Isiah is better than Cp3. Strange that there is not one.

Hand check rules went into effect in 1995, after Isiah retired, but while Stockton was still very much active. Stockton didn't make the finals til the hand check rules came into play. Coincidence? Isiah could've averaged 35ppg with hand check rules in place.

But no, you're right, CP3 is the best player ever to play the game. It's just so weird that the other great players could win big games. I wonder how many times Isiah Thomas blew a 3-1 lead in a best of 7 series?

You never actually hit the nail on the head with your arguments. Stockton was super super efficient before 1995 and no one player blows a series unless they sucked and personally blew it. Again, CP3 has been one of the most efficient and successful players of all time. Replace magic with him, you don't think he wins a ring? Did the Clippers or NOH have a Karl Malone? Did Stockton lose the championship ring for the Jazz?

You are making way too many circular arguments.

Actually, yes, I think if the Clippers team had Magic Johnson, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, JJ Reddick, Jamal Crawford they would win a chip.

and maybe they don't make the playoffs.

LOL. Keep telling yourself that.

I don't believe that but its the same silly circular arg.

its incredible how a guy that plays so perfect does not get credit because he is not liked.

AI who chucked like a retard went to the finals so he is great. Lets ignore that he missed more shots than anyone but he looked great doing it.

I think Chris Paul is better than Iverson. I never said he wasn't. Who's being circular now.

Just because Chris Paul is better than Iverson, a shooting guard, doesn't make CP3 the best point guard of all time.

There is an argument for Magic and maybe even stockton but the argument for Isiah is a bad one. Just please tell in what area he was better?

Defense? Not close
Offense? Not close

Heart? so 80's.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:http://basketballbloggers.sportsblog.com/posts/3361/isiah_thomas_or_chris_paul.html

and this was only as of 2013.

they played in completely different eras - Chris Paul never had to deal with the hand check rules Isiah did. Isiah won a college championship and two NBA titles and played in three straight finals and might've won three straight if he hadn't badly sprained his ankle.

I mean, stats are cute, but maybe Chris Paul should harness some of those stats to get out of the second round for the first time in his life (he won't) before you compare him to Isiah Thomas who beat Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan in their primes.

And any statistical analysis of Chris Paul vs Isiah Thomas that says Chris Paul is a "much better" defender than Isiah Thomas needs to go right back to grade school.

ok ... for starters, cp3 is miles and miles better than Isiah defensively. No idea where you are going with that but please don't try to make them close.

And you keep talking about Isiah as if he is a tennis player. He's not. He had a great (and dirty) team. And, in many ways Dumars was better than he was (though Isiah was better than Dumars).

How come hand check rules did not stop stockton from be way more efficient?

Is it possible that in an era that stats were not tracked we only remember the flashiness and the wins?

How come Magic was so super efficient? Jordan?

And I'm not saying that Isiah was not one of the top PG's, I just think that based on the era and lack of knowledge, he is judged a bit incorrectly.

I am still waiting for an argument other than not winning a ring what Isiah is better than Cp3. Strange that there is not one.

Hand check rules went into effect in 1995, after Isiah retired, but while Stockton was still very much active. Stockton didn't make the finals til the hand check rules came into play. Coincidence? Isiah could've averaged 35ppg with hand check rules in place.

But no, you're right, CP3 is the best player ever to play the game. It's just so weird that the other great players could win big games. I wonder how many times Isiah Thomas blew a 3-1 lead in a best of 7 series?

You never actually hit the nail on the head with your arguments. Stockton was super super efficient before 1995 and no one player blows a series unless they sucked and personally blew it. Again, CP3 has been one of the most efficient and successful players of all time. Replace magic with him, you don't think he wins a ring? Did the Clippers or NOH have a Karl Malone? Did Stockton lose the championship ring for the Jazz?

You are making way too many circular arguments.

Actually, yes, I think if the Clippers team had Magic Johnson, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, JJ Reddick, Jamal Crawford they would win a chip.

and maybe they don't make the playoffs.

LOL. Keep telling yourself that.

I don't believe that but its the same silly circular arg.

its incredible how a guy that plays so perfect does not get credit because he is not liked.

AI who chucked like a retard went to the finals so he is great. Lets ignore that he missed more shots than anyone but he looked great doing it.

I think Chris Paul is better than Iverson. I never said he wasn't. Who's being circular now.

Just because Chris Paul is better than Iverson, a shooting guard, doesn't make CP3 the best point guard of all time.

There is an argument for Magic and maybe even stockton but the argument for Isiah is a bad one. Just please tell in what area he was better?

Defense? Not close
Offense? Not close

Heart? so 80's.

I think Isiah was a far superior defensive player. He was the head of the best defense in the league for many years. CP3 is better at flopping, I guess.

Offensively, CP3 has two major advantages - the hand check rules mean he gets a lot more space to operate and a lot more free throws which make his TS% higher and his efficiency greater. It's impossible to know how much that'd effect Isiah's game. Two, the rise of the three point shot in stature - it used to be thought of as a bad shot and players were discouraged from shooting it. The rise of the three pointer has completely changed the game and makes it very difficult to compare stats in eras 30 years apart.

your argument about the rise in the appreciation of the value of the 3 is a good one however, look at stockton. He did it all in Isiah's era.

you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO way off about defense. Its not even remotely close. Cp3 made all defensive teams while Isiah was not even a good defender. Dumars was but he was not.

Also, the hand check rules changed but defenses are also much smarter and better today. The schemes are much more advanced base on the data that is now tracked. Of course offenses are better and much smarter too.

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

mreinman wrote:http://basketballbloggers.sportsblog.com/posts/3361/isiah_thomas_or_chris_paul.html

and this was only as of 2013.

they played in completely different eras - Chris Paul never had to deal with the hand check rules Isiah did. Isiah won a college championship and two NBA titles and played in three straight finals and might've won three straight if he hadn't badly sprained his ankle.

I mean, stats are cute, but maybe Chris Paul should harness some of those stats to get out of the second round for the first time in his life (he won't) before you compare him to Isiah Thomas who beat Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan in their primes.

And any statistical analysis of Chris Paul vs Isiah Thomas that says Chris Paul is a "much better" defender than Isiah Thomas needs to go right back to grade school.

ok ... for starters, cp3 is miles and miles better than Isiah defensively. No idea where you are going with that but please don't try to make them close.

And you keep talking about Isiah as if he is a tennis player. He's not. He had a great (and dirty) team. And, in many ways Dumars was better than he was (though Isiah was better than Dumars).

How come hand check rules did not stop stockton from be way more efficient?

Is it possible that in an era that stats were not tracked we only remember the flashiness and the wins?

How come Magic was so super efficient? Jordan?

And I'm not saying that Isiah was not one of the top PG's, I just think that based on the era and lack of knowledge, he is judged a bit incorrectly.

I am still waiting for an argument other than not winning a ring what Isiah is better than Cp3. Strange that there is not one.

Hand check rules went into effect in 1995, after Isiah retired, but while Stockton was still very much active. Stockton didn't make the finals til the hand check rules came into play. Coincidence? Isiah could've averaged 35ppg with hand check rules in place.

But no, you're right, CP3 is the best player ever to play the game. It's just so weird that the other great players could win big games. I wonder how many times Isiah Thomas blew a 3-1 lead in a best of 7 series?

You never actually hit the nail on the head with your arguments. Stockton was super super efficient before 1995 and no one player blows a series unless they sucked and personally blew it. Again, CP3 has been one of the most efficient and successful players of all time. Replace magic with him, you don't think he wins a ring? Did the Clippers or NOH have a Karl Malone? Did Stockton lose the championship ring for the Jazz?

You are making way too many circular arguments.

Actually, yes, I think if the Clippers team had Magic Johnson, Blake Griffin, DeAndre Jordan, JJ Reddick, Jamal Crawford they would win a chip.

and maybe they don't make the playoffs.

LOL. Keep telling yourself that.

I don't believe that but its the same silly circular arg.

its incredible how a guy that plays so perfect does not get credit because he is not liked.

AI who chucked like a retard went to the finals so he is great. Lets ignore that he missed more shots than anyone but he looked great doing it.

I think Chris Paul is better than Iverson. I never said he wasn't. Who's being circular now.

Just because Chris Paul is better than Iverson, a shooting guard, doesn't make CP3 the best point guard of all time.

There is an argument for Magic and maybe even stockton but the argument for Isiah is a bad one. Just please tell in what area he was better?

Defense? Not close
Offense? Not close

Heart? so 80's.

I think Isiah was a far superior defensive player. He was the head of the best defense in the league for many years. CP3 is better at flopping, I guess.

Offensively, CP3 has two major advantages - the hand check rules mean he gets a lot more space to operate and a lot more free throws which make his TS% higher and his efficiency greater. It's impossible to know how much that'd effect Isiah's game. Two, the rise of the three point shot in stature - it used to be thought of as a bad shot and players were discouraged from shooting it. The rise of the three pointer has completely changed the game and makes it very difficult to compare stats in eras 30 years apart.

your argument about the rise in the appreciation of the value of the 3 is a good one however, look at stockton. He did it all in Isiah's era.

you are SOOOOOOOOOOOOO way off about defense. Its not even remotely close. Cp3 made all defensive teams while Isiah was not even a good defender. Dumars was but he was not.

Also, the hand check rules changed but defenses are also much smarter and better today. The schemes are much more advanced base on the data that is now tracked. Of course offenses are better and much smarter too.

Also, something that got talked about a lot back in Isiah's playing days, but not as much now is that he sacrificed a lot of his numbers for the good of the team.

Look at his first four seasons or so - he averaged 22ppg 14apg in his 4th season. He had an early playoffs run where he put up 26ppg 12apg. Another where he averaged 24ppg 11apg. But he learned to dial back his ball dominance and involve his teammates better at Chuck Daly's request. It made his teammates better and the team stronger. It killed his "efficiency" numbers, but it led to a stronger team and multiple rings.

It's a lesson about team play that your boys Harden and CP3 have yet to learn. They play selfishly unselfish basketball. You can act like this is made up, but guys in the league talk about it all the time. The Warriors talk about it a lot. CP3 and Harden get their assist numbers and their points and free throws. They're very efficient. It leads to their teammates standing around and watching a lot of the time and very predictable offense in the playoffs, where CP3 and Harden tend to not get very far.

can't compare Harden. While he is a super offensive player (though still selfish areas that need improving), he is a terrible defender. Also, he has a sh1tty team so of course the expectations are less. Getting to the conf finals was unexpected but that is because it was against softie cp.

Look at how a player played in the playoffs and judge him on that.

I also agree that Isiah was better when he was younger. He seemed to get worse and slower (not just smarter and less selfish) as he aged and he aged a bit quickly. His FTA's also went down which hurt him. Those 4 seasons were excellent!

He did have a better team to rely on later on.