StarksEwing1 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo is a liability, simple and plain. We won't come close to competing for a championship under his current contract, so why not move on for both parties? Each season that he's here hurts the team more than he helps. It's like buying a new car from the dealership, instant depreciation the moment you drive off the lot. No return on investment from Carmelo.

BUT BUT he's passing the ball the now! N# please, everyone knows the Knicks will never ever raise a banner while he's still here. The NTC and max contract is the worst move in recent history next to Amare and Allan Houston's contracts. They should've let him go to LA, Houston, or Chicago so they could've done a proper rebuild.

Hate half ass measures. Go full renovation/rebuild if you're going to do it. Got this fake "competitive" team that'll win 34 wins with a Batman(KP) and Alfred the Butler(Melo), not even Robin. If there was no NTC, at least we could've parlayed Melo into role players or picks to build around Porzingis. Now we're just stuck with him, and will be forced to play and pay him the next 3 years....

Phil/Dolan phucked up major with this move...

No this is like buying a 1994 Mercedes sedan with 180,000 miles for $90,000. The price of a brand new Mercedes

Then why did the Cavs want to give up Kevin Love for him? Why would the Clippers offer Blake Griffin in a heartbeat?

Because those teams are a lot closer to winning than the Knicks are. Come on you guys are better than that.

Clippers were offering Blake for Melo? That's news to me. I could've seen Cleveland wanting a broken Melo for 2 reasons 1)Love has been a disaster and 2) Cleveland is as dumb as the Knicks

The point is that Melo has value. You were implying he doesn't.

The guy who thought Melo would re-sign for $17-18M per should not be calling other folks dumb.

he never implied melo has no value. In fact he said a trade would really accelerate the rebuilding process, so that is actually a compliment for his talent. I do respect the melo fans loyalty but not everything is melo hate, we just want the knicks to do well

Melo has value above his contract. Dwight Howard is making $23M next season. Melo is making $24M. Better value?

The max in this league will soon be $32M (Bron can get that this summer) - in the summer of 2017 the max will be $35M. Melo will be a bargain for the life of this contract.

Sure, it's not the value of a rookie contract, but most good rookies are wildly underpaid.

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Now watch as the Nets with Sean Marks build a competitive team starting with Zero assets while we are waiting for Melo's contract to come off the books in order to start a true rebuild

How did it work out last time the Knicks had enough cap room to sign two max guys and totally sucked? Maybe building around Melo and KP and having cap room each of the next two seasons will be a better way to do it?

Or maybe stop chasing players and draft and keep your own which is what I've been begging for the last 15yrs. I rather draft the next Durant/Westbrook or Curry/Green than chase stars who are past their prime.

I know you want Conley but is KP/Conley going to make you a contender if Melo is out of the lineup? Conley, Gasol & Randolph is not enough to get out of the west. Does adding Conley even guarantee we make the playoffs?

Build through the damn draft. I keep saying it. Show patience for 5yrs and build a team consisting of young guys who came into the league together. Then you add veterans and free agents. With flexibility you are operating from a level of strength and adding players becomes easier. Or keep mortaging all your assets and chasing the next Bargnani and other former stars on the decline. Further prolonging the effort to get build a perennial playoff countender. Keep spinning the wheels every 5, 10, 15yrs

You have to get lucky in the draft. The years the Knicks tried to do that I coveted Westbrook in 08 and Curry in 09. We missed Westbrook by two picks in 08 and got Gallinari. We missed Curry by one pick in 09 and got Jordan Hill.

The draft can be great. It can also be just as heartbreaking as FA.

We all wanted a top three pick - how would we feel right now if we Okafor or even D'Angelo Russell at 3 and the Sixers got KP at 4? The draft is an inexact science, too.

I agree completely that the time to stop trading 1st round picks is definitely right now. Phil apparently said no to such a trade today for Beverly, which I am happy about.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo is a liability, simple and plain. We won't come close to competing for a championship under his current contract, so why not move on for both parties? Each season that he's here hurts the team more than he helps. It's like buying a new car from the dealership, instant depreciation the moment you drive off the lot. No return on investment from Carmelo.

BUT BUT he's passing the ball the now! N# please, everyone knows the Knicks will never ever raise a banner while he's still here. The NTC and max contract is the worst move in recent history next to Amare and Allan Houston's contracts. They should've let him go to LA, Houston, or Chicago so they could've done a proper rebuild.

Hate half ass measures. Go full renovation/rebuild if you're going to do it. Got this fake "competitive" team that'll win 34 wins with a Batman(KP) and Alfred the Butler(Melo), not even Robin. If there was no NTC, at least we could've parlayed Melo into role players or picks to build around Porzingis. Now we're just stuck with him, and will be forced to play and pay him the next 3 years....

Phil/Dolan phucked up major with this move...

No this is like buying a 1994 Mercedes sedan with 180,000 miles for $90,000. The price of a brand new Mercedes

Then why did the Cavs want to give up Kevin Love for him? Why would the Clippers offer Blake Griffin in a heartbeat?

Because those teams are a lot closer to winning than the Knicks are. Come on you guys are better than that.

Clippers were offering Blake for Melo? That's news to me. I could've seen Cleveland wanting a broken Melo for 2 reasons 1)Love has been a disaster and 2) Cleveland is as dumb as the Knicks

The point is that Melo has value. You were implying he doesn't.

The guy who thought Melo would re-sign for $17-18M per should not be calling other folks dumb.

he never implied melo has no value. In fact he said a trade would really accelerate the rebuilding process, so that is actually a compliment for his talent. I do respect the melo fans loyalty but not everything is melo hate, we just want the knicks to do well

Melo has value above his contract. Dwight Howard is making $23M next season. Melo is making $24M. Better value?

The max in this league will soon be $32M (Bron can get that this summer) - in the summer of 2017 the max will be $35M. Melo will be a bargain for the life of this contract.

Sure, it's not the value of a rookie contract, but most good rookies are wildly underpaid.

i agree melo is the greatest, just look at his playoff record, we are damn lucky to have him

So when it is time for playoffs the entire responsibility falls on Melo's shoulders? Not Amar'e for getting injured dunking in the layup line? Or for punching a fire extinguisher? Or Tyson for getting sick and bitching out? Or for Felton or Kidd for not showing up at all? Or JR for getting suspended? Or Lin for being too wimpy to play on a surgically repaired knee heading into FA?

It's all on Melo in the playoffs, right? He's got to overcome his ****ty teammates, right?

Look, Melo is not my favorite Knicks player ever - not by a long shot. But this crap is ridiculous. He's a very good player and he's had wilting teammates his entire time he's been here.

KP is probably the best teammate he's had his entire time in NY. In his rookie season. Think about that.

crzymdups wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo is a liability, simple and plain. We won't come close to competing for a championship under his current contract, so why not move on for both parties? Each season that he's here hurts the team more than he helps. It's like buying a new car from the dealership, instant depreciation the moment you drive off the lot. No return on investment from Carmelo.

BUT BUT he's passing the ball the now! N# please, everyone knows the Knicks will never ever raise a banner while he's still here. The NTC and max contract is the worst move in recent history next to Amare and Allan Houston's contracts. They should've let him go to LA, Houston, or Chicago so they could've done a proper rebuild.

Hate half ass measures. Go full renovation/rebuild if you're going to do it. Got this fake "competitive" team that'll win 34 wins with a Batman(KP) and Alfred the Butler(Melo), not even Robin. If there was no NTC, at least we could've parlayed Melo into role players or picks to build around Porzingis. Now we're just stuck with him, and will be forced to play and pay him the next 3 years....

Phil/Dolan phucked up major with this move...

No this is like buying a 1994 Mercedes sedan with 180,000 miles for $90,000. The price of a brand new Mercedes

Then why did the Cavs want to give up Kevin Love for him? Why would the Clippers offer Blake Griffin in a heartbeat?

Because those teams are a lot closer to winning than the Knicks are. Come on you guys are better than that.

Clippers were offering Blake for Melo? That's news to me. I could've seen Cleveland wanting a broken Melo for 2 reasons 1)Love has been a disaster and 2) Cleveland is as dumb as the Knicks

The point is that Melo has value. You were implying he doesn't.

The guy who thought Melo would re-sign for $17-18M per should not be calling other folks dumb.

he never implied melo has no value. In fact he said a trade would really accelerate the rebuilding process, so that is actually a compliment for his talent. I do respect the melo fans loyalty but not everything is melo hate, we just want the knicks to do well

Melo has value above his contract. Dwight Howard is making $23M next season. Melo is making $24M. Better value?

The max in this league will soon be $32M (Bron can get that this summer) - in the summer of 2017 the max will be $35M. Melo will be a bargain for the life of this contract.

Sure, it's not the value of a rookie contract, but most good rookies are wildly underpaid.

i agree melo is the greatest, just look at his playoff record, we are damn lucky to have him

So when it is time for playoffs the entire responsibility falls on Melo's shoulders? Not Amar'e for getting injured dunking in the layup line? Or for punching a fire extinguisher? Or Tyson for getting sick and bitching out? Or for Felton or Kidd for not showing up at all? Or JR for getting suspended? Or Lin for being too wimpy to play on a surgically repaired knee heading into FA?

It's all on Melo in the playoffs, right? He's got to overcome his ****ty teammates, right?

Look, Melo is not my favorite Knicks player ever - not by a long shot. But this crap is ridiculous. He's a very good player and he's had wilting teammates his entire time he's been here.

KP is probably the best teammate he's had his entire time in NY. In his rookie season. Think about that.

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo is a liability, simple and plain. We won't come close to competing for a championship under his current contract, so why not move on for both parties? Each season that he's here hurts the team more than he helps. It's like buying a new car from the dealership, instant depreciation the moment you drive off the lot. No return on investment from Carmelo.

BUT BUT he's passing the ball the now! N# please, everyone knows the Knicks will never ever raise a banner while he's still here. The NTC and max contract is the worst move in recent history next to Amare and Allan Houston's contracts. They should've let him go to LA, Houston, or Chicago so they could've done a proper rebuild.

Hate half ass measures. Go full renovation/rebuild if you're going to do it. Got this fake "competitive" team that'll win 34 wins with a Batman(KP) and Alfred the Butler(Melo), not even Robin. If there was no NTC, at least we could've parlayed Melo into role players or picks to build around Porzingis. Now we're just stuck with him, and will be forced to play and pay him the next 3 years....

Phil/Dolan phucked up major with this move...

No this is like buying a 1994 Mercedes sedan with 180,000 miles for $90,000. The price of a brand new Mercedes

gunsnewing wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Melo is a liability, simple and plain. We won't come close to competing for a championship under his current contract, so why not move on for both parties? Each season that he's here hurts the team more than he helps. It's like buying a new car from the dealership, instant depreciation the moment you drive off the lot. No return on investment from Carmelo.

BUT BUT he's passing the ball the now! N# please, everyone knows the Knicks will never ever raise a banner while he's still here. The NTC and max contract is the worst move in recent history next to Amare and Allan Houston's contracts. They should've let him go to LA, Houston, or Chicago so they could've done a proper rebuild.

Hate half ass measures. Go full renovation/rebuild if you're going to do it. Got this fake "competitive" team that'll win 34 wins with a Batman(KP) and Alfred the Butler(Melo), not even Robin. If there was no NTC, at least we could've parlayed Melo into role players or picks to build around Porzingis. Now we're just stuck with him, and will be forced to play and pay him the next 3 years....

Phil/Dolan phucked up major with this move...

No this is like buying a 1994 Mercedes sedan with 180,000 miles for $90,000. The price of a brand new Mercedes

The CBA is set up so that guys get paid more after they have a certain number of years in.

Yea I am fully aware of that.

But answer me why does Duncan agree to play for less? Why did Lebron, Wade & Bosh take less? When they could've made $25mil per a piece?

Not you Crush but the rest of you guys just don't get it. There is a reason why successful teams are built through the draft in today's NBA more than ever. This isn't the 90s. The cap has been in place for the past 17 seasons which uncoincidently is roughing the same amount of time the Knicks have been inept.

You get more bang for your buck with the stars you draft not by chasing players who by the time they become available after 8+ years in the league are on the decline.

Why do u think Mike Conley is available now?

wanna guess how much duncan has made in his career? 234million! compared to melos 158million. while neither one of these figures are anything to sneeze at for us, this idea that duncan has taken less is silly. he made his money and THEN he decided to take less. duncan got max contracts his whole career until his age-36 season, which melo won't see for another 5 years. so, please enlighten me how duncan has taken less? also, sure, the super-friends all took less to play together, then disbanded and all got gigantic contracts. if melo had the possibility of lebron and wade/bosh to sign him in NY with this offseason, i would imagine the contract would look much different aka what the super-friends did.

BRIGGS wrote:Weve had 15 years of guys getting dumb contracts --we dont protect picks--and the one time we try to give up a pick for a player that wouldve made a difference--Dolan squashed it. I think if you give someone 150mm$ contract--you have the right to say no to NTC. Not only is it a right its a NO brainer. Carmelo bullied his way here--forced us to give up a shtload because he couldnt be patient for 3 months and he forced the owner who was STUPID to accept it. Anyone comparing him to Wade or Duncan has to have his head examined--hes not those guys.

If Melo walked for NOTHING last year--what exactly is the difference today? Dolan orgasm-ed at everything Isiah said and he orgams at everything Carmelo does or says because thats his big "guy" over his 15 years here. You never here about what the San Antonio owner does other than come down to collect the trophy. This is his toy and thats that.

fishmike wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

Vmart wrote:Melo is a liability all because of NTC. We cannot view him as an asset. His rate of depreciation is staggering with each passing year. The return rate of his service has diminished as a result of poor numbers and injury history which is starting to pile on. Even if the Knicks were to trade they would be luck to yield a top 5 pick. At best your looking at multiple mid to late round picks for him if he desires a change of scenery.

Melo has the Knicks basically held hostage. He knows he is no longer a top player and he knows the downside has started. Right now he doesn't even desire a championship or a run.

Agree with the first part he is a liability. But you can't trade liabilities unless you do a swap meaning you as acquire other liabilities. Or you can just write them off. We don't have any good options.

Mistake 1 - resigning Melo
MISTAKE 2 - NTC
Mistake 3 - Overpaying by anout 140%

Only the Knicks can make three mistake in one transaction. Huge fail on Dolan/ Phil

so when you remove the liability what is the Knicks record? And with the liability? Do you guys even think before you post? Are you Knick fans?

VMart can you quantify the bold statement? Melo's shot has been off, but this is his best year defensively, he's at his career high for rebounds and is above his career high in assists, oh.. and the team cant win without him on the floor. Kind of makes your liability statement look not so clever.

You guys are like grumpy monkeys. This shiny object isn't fun to play with anymore. You need a new shiny object.

Fish I know it would be difficult to quantify because the team is good when Melo plays they are competitive. The reason to trade Melo may not be justified because he is still a good player. This move is more about the future of the Knicks and getting the proper talent athleticism around the building block which is Prozingis.

The Knicks need to start to put together a young nucleus around KP. Melo's talent allows the Knicks an avenue to get talent. There simply isn't any other way for this team to get major talent.

You are very correct that the team cannot win without Melo on the floor that is simply because a lack of talent on the team which Melo can be blamed indirectly for taking a chunk out of the cap. I am a Melo fan but I can't understand why he wouldn't waive the NTC for a better destination. Simply put Melo should be considering a win now team. Knicks are a win in 3-5 team as of now by that time Melo would probably considering retirement.

BRIGGS wrote:Weve had 15 years of guys getting dumb contracts --we dont protect picks--and the one time we try to give up a pick for a player that wouldve made a difference--Dolan squashed it. I think if you give someone 150mm$ contract--you have the right to say no to NTC. Not only is it a right its a NO brainer. Carmelo bullied his way here--forced us to give up a shtload because he couldnt be patient for 3 months and he forced the owner who was STUPID to accept it. Anyone comparing him to Wade or Duncan has to have his head examined--hes not those guys.

If Melo walked for NOTHING last year--what exactly is the difference today? Dolan orgasm-ed at everything Isiah said and he orgams at everything Carmelo does or says because thats his big "guy" over his 15 years here. You never here about what the San Antonio owner does other than come down to collect the trophy. This is his toy and thats that.

Phil Jackson made the call on Carmelo Anthony. There isn't really any hard evidence that Dolan forced Phil to resign Melo, only assumptions. Dolan's name gets thrown out because he is a convenient fall guy for any agenda needing to be pushed. Phil most likely made the call because it was necessary at the time. FA's this past offseason all either stayed or went to contending teams. This may be the trend going forward. Cap space without being a contender rignt now only seems good for eating unwanted contracts. And even if FAs did come we would have to offer then ridiculous amounts due to the expected cap rise. Unless we continue to go after Affalo and D.Will type of players to keep the cost down.

Fans are only crying at the moment because they want that Brooklyn Nets pick and believe Melo can land us that. The deal is still possible at the draft though since Love is still on the Cavs.

Really the teams future success depends the leaps KP continues to make going forward. If KP takes that next step next season then that improvement alone could net us a bunch of wins. We also still do have 20+mil in cap space coming up. With the possibility of more if Affalo, D.Will opt out and stretching Jose. Which makes it possible we get close to 40mil in cap space this summer. Melo also said he would re-evaluate this situation in the offseason.

Improved guard play, and development of KP really which is both possible with 20+mil in cap space. Calderson's or Affalo or D.Wills expiring(if they don't opt out) and possibly Grant as a trade piece if not kept. Could be logical steps to reaching the next level of improvement.

Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, this was another case of bidding against ourselves. Giving him $30 mil more than any other team wasn't enough?! We had to include the NTC too. Jeez.

He would of never signed without the NTC. He knows we would of shipped him somewhere awful. We should of lowered our offer once he demanded that. Honestly I think Phil believed Melo would see the light and he would be able to trade him. He underestimated his stubbornness