Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:
Look at the video. None of the other players are cheating off KP or Afflalo. It was strictly Man up or man to man. Not a "Melo Zone" D, where all eyes on are on him.

And I'm not saying teams don't do a "Melo Zone" D to cheat towards Melo, but on this particular play the video clearly shows man to man.

Melo wasn't involved in the pass or the cut or the spacing or the lane. Period.

Give Jose and RoLo and Fisher and the system it's due. This was all triangle instinctive pressure release reaction play.

The point is that Melo was drawing Millsap out of the lane. Most other situations, Millsap would've slid into the lane on the Jose/Melo screen to cover the lane for Schroeder. But he didn't leave Melo. Because Melo is Melo. If Millsap slid over to help, Melo would've been wide open.

I'm not saying anything about Jose, Rolo or Fisher. I give them all their due pretty regularly. But on that play, they were helped by Melo's mere pressence. It is obvious if you watch the tape. That's part of this being a team.

Then the same could be said about KP's guy or Afflalo's guy not leaving their man.

I'm not saying not to give Melo his due, but just not on this particular play. It was man to man all the way, all the Hawks were basically playing "Cover Zero" defense with no help defender.

Of course you are!!!!

Yup. I give Melo his due even when he's shooting like shyt for the whole game if he's distributing like he did the first 3 quarters.

The 4th quarter not so much...

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

blkexec wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:or..........he kept his team by giving minutes to the new guys and if they performed they stick in the rotation.
There is a method to this.

Phuching Jose CaldePhuchingRone fed in the lane for layup from Phuching Robin PhuchingLopez to seal the win was phuching epic last nite!!!

I have to admit, that Give and Go was the play of the game last night. After all the ISO garbage plays that slowly led ATL back in, it was the team ball Triangle centric traditional give and go that sealed it.

There's no scripted play called there, just a read and react instinct by system play, which is a credit to the coaching staff, Fisher included. So kudos to Fish for keeping with the triangle through thick and thin. He has to tighten that 4th quarter ISO BS though and remind Melo and Afflalo there's 4 other players on the floor.

For those that hate iOS ball.....all superstars do it. But look at the replay and u will realize that play doesn't work if Iso melo wasn't on the floor. Melos man was not leaving him which created a wide open lane for Jose. Also melo got paid to become a finisher on this team. I think his iSo days are fading and only works against certain defenders. But still have to give melo credit for opening that lane for Jose. It also shows u was a dynamic young slashing guard can do for this team.

Jose's guy (Shroeder) wasn't cheating on Melo on the play. It was just a well executed hard clean cut by Jose, Shroeder was expecting Jose to camp at 3pt line like he usually does, and a great in stride pass by RoLo.

And you can see from the defensive alignment, it was strictly man to man D, no compensating for ISO Melo on the play. So in this particular play, Melo being on the court didn't matter or affect the Give and Go play.

Not that Melo played horrible...just on this particular play, his "presence" didn't mean much to what Jose and RoLo were doing.

And I don't mind ISO ball...but in smaller doses, especially on mismatches, but not exclusively like what we saw Melo and Afflalo do time and time again in the 4th.

And yes, I'm in 1000% agreement on the need for a stud PG like a Westbrook that can do that Jose cut a trillion times in a game....one can dream!

that play was a broken play (sort of). Nothing was there for Jose and he gave it to Rolo in the high post with the shot clock winding down which was a bad move because Rolo can't really do anything there. Luckily Atlanta fell asleep and missed the cutter - jose who scored as the clock expired. No way that was drawn up.

It wasn't drawn up. That was a triangle instinctive reaction play.

rolo should have never got the ball in that spot with the clock expiring.

I know you hate the triangle and are a spread PnR guy, but the Knicks run the triangle, and RoLo is the Center, so he'll get that ball alot more in the future even with the clock expiring.

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

blkexec wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:or..........he kept his team by giving minutes to the new guys and if they performed they stick in the rotation.
There is a method to this.

Phuching Jose CaldePhuchingRone fed in the lane for layup from Phuching Robin PhuchingLopez to seal the win was phuching epic last nite!!!

I have to admit, that Give and Go was the play of the game last night. After all the ISO garbage plays that slowly led ATL back in, it was the team ball Triangle centric traditional give and go that sealed it.

There's no scripted play called there, just a read and react instinct by system play, which is a credit to the coaching staff, Fisher included. So kudos to Fish for keeping with the triangle through thick and thin. He has to tighten that 4th quarter ISO BS though and remind Melo and Afflalo there's 4 other players on the floor.

For those that hate iOS ball.....all superstars do it. But look at the replay and u will realize that play doesn't work if Iso melo wasn't on the floor. Melos man was not leaving him which created a wide open lane for Jose. Also melo got paid to become a finisher on this team. I think his iSo days are fading and only works against certain defenders. But still have to give melo credit for opening that lane for Jose. It also shows u was a dynamic young slashing guard can do for this team.

Jose's guy (Shroeder) wasn't cheating on Melo on the play. It was just a well executed hard clean cut by Jose, Shroeder was expecting Jose to camp at 3pt line like he usually does, and a great in stride pass by RoLo.

And you can see from the defensive alignment, it was strictly man to man D, no compensating for ISO Melo on the play. So in this particular play, Melo being on the court didn't matter or affect the Give and Go play.

Not that Melo played horrible...just on this particular play, his "presence" didn't mean much to what Jose and RoLo were doing.

And I don't mind ISO ball...but in smaller doses, especially on mismatches, but not exclusively like what we saw Melo and Afflalo do time and time again in the 4th.

And yes, I'm in 1000% agreement on the need for a stud PG like a Westbrook that can do that Jose cut a trillion times in a game....one can dream!

that play was a broken play (sort of). Nothing was there for Jose and he gave it to Rolo in the high post with the shot clock winding down which was a bad move because Rolo can't really do anything there. Luckily Atlanta fell asleep and missed the cutter - jose who scored as the clock expired. No way that was drawn up.

It wasn't drawn up. That was a triangle instinctive reaction play.

rolo should have never got the ball in that spot with the clock expiring.

I know you hate the triangle and are a spread PnR guy, but the Knicks run the triangle, and RoLo is the Center, so he'll get that ball alot more in the future even with the clock expiring.

I hope not. That would be terrible. What would he do with it if jose's man does not have brain freeze? Lefty hook from the foul line?

If RoLo's still around, hopefully the "Go" pass will go to Jose's much faster and explosive successor.

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

blkexec wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:or..........he kept his team by giving minutes to the new guys and if they performed they stick in the rotation.
There is a method to this.

Phuching Jose CaldePhuchingRone fed in the lane for layup from Phuching Robin PhuchingLopez to seal the win was phuching epic last nite!!!

I have to admit, that Give and Go was the play of the game last night. After all the ISO garbage plays that slowly led ATL back in, it was the team ball Triangle centric traditional give and go that sealed it.

There's no scripted play called there, just a read and react instinct by system play, which is a credit to the coaching staff, Fisher included. So kudos to Fish for keeping with the triangle through thick and thin. He has to tighten that 4th quarter ISO BS though and remind Melo and Afflalo there's 4 other players on the floor.

For those that hate iOS ball.....all superstars do it. But look at the replay and u will realize that play doesn't work if Iso melo wasn't on the floor. Melos man was not leaving him which created a wide open lane for Jose. Also melo got paid to become a finisher on this team. I think his iSo days are fading and only works against certain defenders. But still have to give melo credit for opening that lane for Jose. It also shows u was a dynamic young slashing guard can do for this team.

Jose's guy (Shroeder) wasn't cheating on Melo on the play. It was just a well executed hard clean cut by Jose, Shroeder was expecting Jose to camp at 3pt line like he usually does, and a great in stride pass by RoLo.

And you can see from the defensive alignment, it was strictly man to man D, no compensating for ISO Melo on the play. So in this particular play, Melo being on the court didn't matter or affect the Give and Go play.

Not that Melo played horrible...just on this particular play, his "presence" didn't mean much to what Jose and RoLo were doing.

And I don't mind ISO ball...but in smaller doses, especially on mismatches, but not exclusively like what we saw Melo and Afflalo do time and time again in the 4th.

And yes, I'm in 1000% agreement on the need for a stud PG like a Westbrook that can do that Jose cut a trillion times in a game....one can dream!

that play was a broken play (sort of). Nothing was there for Jose and he gave it to Rolo in the high post with the shot clock winding down which was a bad move because Rolo can't really do anything there. Luckily Atlanta fell asleep and missed the cutter - jose who scored as the clock expired. No way that was drawn up.

It wasn't drawn up. That was a triangle instinctive reaction play.

rolo should have never got the ball in that spot with the clock expiring.

Really? Why is that? Cuz his contract? Cuz he should be a back up? That was a timmy Duncan play and we have seen it run by parker or Manu before. The next option was Rolo would be wide open for a short jumper, or KP's man comes to him.

This is what well coached teams do!!!!!

Its in its infancy so don't worry about it, inconsistency will be back!!!
Anyone want to guess how a team becomes consistently good? By dumbing it down? No, of course not.
Then how?
Its redundancy of trying a skill until one achieves success. It does not happen all the time, but when it does you know what it feels like. Then it becomes instinct. Not overnight mind you, but in time.
This was just a glimpse of what could be. It was pretty!!!!!

!!!! !!!!! and !!!!

The play was good but the shot clock was the problem. Earlier in the shot clock that is fine. Lopez would have had to fling that up badly if the cut did not work out perfectly and most times it wont.

Love the way it worked out but Jose ran out of options and that was not a good one.

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Nalod wrote:

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

mreinman wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

blkexec wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:or..........he kept his team by giving minutes to the new guys and if they performed they stick in the rotation.
There is a method to this.

Phuching Jose CaldePhuchingRone fed in the lane for layup from Phuching Robin PhuchingLopez to seal the win was phuching epic last nite!!!

I have to admit, that Give and Go was the play of the game last night. After all the ISO garbage plays that slowly led ATL back in, it was the team ball Triangle centric traditional give and go that sealed it.

There's no scripted play called there, just a read and react instinct by system play, which is a credit to the coaching staff, Fisher included. So kudos to Fish for keeping with the triangle through thick and thin. He has to tighten that 4th quarter ISO BS though and remind Melo and Afflalo there's 4 other players on the floor.

For those that hate iOS ball.....all superstars do it. But look at the replay and u will realize that play doesn't work if Iso melo wasn't on the floor. Melos man was not leaving him which created a wide open lane for Jose. Also melo got paid to become a finisher on this team. I think his iSo days are fading and only works against certain defenders. But still have to give melo credit for opening that lane for Jose. It also shows u was a dynamic young slashing guard can do for this team.

Jose's guy (Shroeder) wasn't cheating on Melo on the play. It was just a well executed hard clean cut by Jose, Shroeder was expecting Jose to camp at 3pt line like he usually does, and a great in stride pass by RoLo.

And you can see from the defensive alignment, it was strictly man to man D, no compensating for ISO Melo on the play. So in this particular play, Melo being on the court didn't matter or affect the Give and Go play.

Not that Melo played horrible...just on this particular play, his "presence" didn't mean much to what Jose and RoLo were doing.

And I don't mind ISO ball...but in smaller doses, especially on mismatches, but not exclusively like what we saw Melo and Afflalo do time and time again in the 4th.

And yes, I'm in 1000% agreement on the need for a stud PG like a Westbrook that can do that Jose cut a trillion times in a game....one can dream!

that play was a broken play (sort of). Nothing was there for Jose and he gave it to Rolo in the high post with the shot clock winding down which was a bad move because Rolo can't really do anything there. Luckily Atlanta fell asleep and missed the cutter - jose who scored as the clock expired. No way that was drawn up.

It wasn't drawn up. That was a triangle instinctive reaction play.

rolo should have never got the ball in that spot with the clock expiring.

Really? Why is that? Cuz his contract? Cuz he should be a back up? That was a timmy Duncan play and we have seen it run by parker or Manu before. The next option was Rolo would be wide open for a short jumper, or KP's man comes to him.

This is what well coached teams do!!!!!

Its in its infancy so don't worry about it, inconsistency will be back!!!
Anyone want to guess how a team becomes consistently good? By dumbing it down? No, of course not.
Then how?
Its redundancy of trying a skill until one achieves success. It does not happen all the time, but when it does you know what it feels like. Then it becomes instinct. Not overnight mind you, but in time.
This was just a glimpse of what could be. It was pretty!!!!!

!!!! !!!!! and !!!!

The play was good but the shot clock was the problem. Earlier in the shot clock that is fine. Lopez would have had to fling that up badly if the cut did not work out perfectly and most times it wont.

Love the way it worked out but Jose ran out of options and that was not a good one.

Jose could have just launched a shot!!!! That's running out of options!!!!!
Instead he was patient and probed to make something happen!!!!!
Rolo got the ball with 6 seconds left!!! If he was open, that's plenty of time!!!!
If not, he would have run out of exclamation points!!!!!

You can't give it up can you?

give up what? Mr public knick defender.

This has nothing to do with the system or the coach etc ...

This was a bad option for Jose to choose and it would of course be nice if we had a PG that can come up with better than that. Rolo should never have gotten that ball so high with 6 seconds on the clock in a must make situation. If that was the only option left that we did a bad job creating a better option.

I love rolo more than anyone here but you have to know your personnel if you are the PG.

You think fisher called that play?

The best move Phil ever made was install a sense of team work with these guys. There's a culture being established where the team's goals come first. Despite our limited talent, we're playing relatively well and responding to challenges from the head coach. I enjoy watching this team way more than the Knicks teams of the last few years.

ChuckBuck wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:
Look at the video. None of the other players are cheating off KP or Afflalo. It was strictly Man up or man to man. Not a "Melo Zone" D, where all eyes on are on him.

And I'm not saying teams don't do a "Melo Zone" D to cheat towards Melo, but on this particular play the video clearly shows man to man.

Melo wasn't involved in the pass or the cut or the spacing or the lane. Period.

Give Jose and RoLo and Fisher and the system it's due. This was all triangle instinctive pressure release reaction play.

The point is that Melo was drawing Millsap out of the lane. Most other situations, Millsap would've slid into the lane on the Jose/Melo screen to cover the lane for Schroeder. But he didn't leave Melo. Because Melo is Melo. If Millsap slid over to help, Melo would've been wide open.

I'm not saying anything about Jose, Rolo or Fisher. I give them all their due pretty regularly. But on that play, they were helped by Melo's mere pressence. It is obvious if you watch the tape. That's part of this being a team.

Then the same could be said about KP's guy or Afflalo's guy not leaving their man.

I'm not saying not to give Melo his due, but just not on this particular play. It was man to man all the way, all the Hawks were basically playing "Cover Zero" defense with no help defender.

No, the same could not be said with KP's or AA's man because they were not DIRECTLY INVOLVED in the play. Melo and Calderon started the action that started the play. Melo and his man were within 5 feet of Jose. Geez dude. I'm sorry your hatred has blinded you so much.

blkexec wrote:You know what....Maybe Fisher will not be a good coach. But from what we've seen the last 5 games, he could be a great coach. Just goes to show you why you should never be hard on somebody when they are young and learning on the job. It's like hating your son, because he can't tie his own shoes. You have to reward effort and Fisher continues to improve because he's not a quitter, even if home fans have turned against him. We saw this at the end of last years team, when Fisher won the last two games. Once he starts to connect with the team, they respond.

Lets turn this Fisher hating thread into a Fisher appreciation thread. I'm guilty for having my doubts about Fisher.....But I also understood he was and still is a rookie just like KP, Grant and Phil.

+1

Knicks1969 wrote:I will as soon as I see consistent progress; consistent rotation, and a much better substitution pattern. I am fair and impartial. He needs to find more minutes for Grant, Williams and KO

very impartial and fair

nyk4ever wrote:

nixluva wrote:Some of us have been preaching patience and giving Fish a chance to get his bearings. We saw a similar thing with Jason Kidd. It's not easy trying to bring all the facets of running a team together and especially with a new roster!!! Despite the complaints Fish has kept the team together and working. They look like they're gelling now!

that's because the people who were saying fisher sucks are idiots. no coach is gregg poppovich in one year, two years or even 5 years. fisher needed patience and thats what phil has given him. even poppovich only won 17games in his first year.

I don't think you really know why he was criticized. It is not just the fact that his team only lost 17 games; it is his inability to set a rotation that was appalling. I don't know if it is Phil who told him to pick 10 guys or he will see the door, but since the Utah debacle, he has made a concerted effort t stick with 9 men. The problem with his rotation now is the fact that he is not using the same 9 or 10 players, but that is progress