bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:It's not much, but what else straws can we grasp at.

Indeed, sir,

Indeed.

I can hardly wait for the next new straw.

Scoring and Shooting efficiently maybe? Take only 10-12 shots a game and make them count?

There is NO argument you can make to suggest Melo taking less shots would leads to more efficiency.

Raw FG % is no his strength. Does anyone argue otherwise.

What he is is the Knicks center of gravity, which will aid Porzingis. Making him LESS than that seems to be inviting more defensive pressure on KP.

I think that's the next "straw" for Melo, since he's already dishing more than all of us are used to.

So you didn't get that was just disproven?

Not really. What's disproven? His miracle 3.6 assist year in strike shortened season he played only 55 games?

3.1
3.1
3.3

So you were being genuinely when you implied .2 more assists a game is proof that he is dishing more than we're used to?

Hey it's a start for our facilitator supreme, right!

Babysteps, my friend. Can't expect big things so quickly from our $124m man.

loo at his usage rate compared with his assist rate. that is a better measure of player's role in an offense and the level of potential selfishness.

3.6 in 55 games yes, AND his usage to assist was 31.8 to 21 for a reduced ratio of 1.5:1 which is better than ok but not really enough.

3.1 assists in the 54-28 campaign with an astronomical 35.6 and a paltry 14.1 for an absurd 2.52:1 ratio, and this ratio was one of the reasons why it was a fool's gold campaign-- melo was only as good as the orchestrators he had and never bothered to do any facilitating himself.

the following season is more of the same except with only 37 wins and without an orchestrator and melo not doing any facilitating, their implosion was predictable.

last season? not worth revisiting in my opinion.

this season: too small a sample size to come to a conclusion. right now it's 30.1 to 18.7 for a reduced ratio of 1.6:1. that is not going to be enough if the knicks are to become a .500 ballclub and make the playoffs.

he has had a couple of bad "old melo" games sprinkled throughout the fifteen games, basically him getting into a playground pissing contest with douchebags like dwyane wade. but when he has played like he has bought in he has been superb. what we need is a majority of games where he plays like that, where his usage is around 28% and his assist rate is around 20-22%

like i said, the success of the season depends a lot on how much melo can maintain his focus, keep his game both tight and generous.

dk7th wrote:raw assist numbers don't reveal facilitating, especially when they're so few per game for an erstwhile "scorer".

loo at his usage rate compared with his assist rate. that is a better measure of player's role in an offense and the level of potential selfishness.

3.6 in 55 games yes, AND his usage to assist was 31.8 to 21 for a reduced ratio of 1.5:1 which is better than ok but not really enough.

3.1 assists in the 54-28 campaign with an astronomical 35.6 and a paltry 14.1 for an absurd 2.52:1 ratio, and this ratio was one of the reasons why it was a fool's gold campaign-- melo was only as good as the orchestrators he had and never bothered to do any facilitating himself.

the following season is more of the same except with only 37 wins and without an orchestrator and melo not doing any facilitating, their implosion was predictable.

last season? not worth revisiting in my opinion.

this season: too small a sample size to come to a conclusion. right now it's 30.1 to 18.7 for a reduced ratio of 1.6:1. that is not going to be enough if the knicks are to become a .500 ballclub and make the playoffs.

he has had a couple of bad "old melo" games sprinkled throughout the fifteen games, basically him getting into a playground pissing contest with douchebags like dwyane wade. but when he has played like he has bought in he has been superb. what we need is a majority of games where he plays like that, where his usage is around 28% and his assist rate is around 20-22%

like i said, the success of the season depends a lot on how much melo can maintain his focus, keep his game both tight and generous.

whoa! Why is Wade a douchebag? Do you just not like him or do you actually have a problem with his game?

dk7th wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

dk7th wrote:raw assist numbers don't reveal facilitating, especially when they're so few per game for an erstwhile "scorer".

loo at his usage rate compared with his assist rate. that is a better measure of player's role in an offense and the level of potential selfishness.

3.6 in 55 games yes, AND his usage to assist was 31.8 to 21 for a reduced ratio of 1.5:1 which is better than ok but not really enough.

3.1 assists in the 54-28 campaign with an astronomical 35.6 and a paltry 14.1 for an absurd 2.52:1 ratio, and this ratio was one of the reasons why it was a fool's gold campaign-- melo was only as good as the orchestrators he had and never bothered to do any facilitating himself.

the following season is more of the same except with only 37 wins and without an orchestrator and melo not doing any facilitating, their implosion was predictable.

last season? not worth revisiting in my opinion.

this season: too small a sample size to come to a conclusion. right now it's 30.1 to 18.7 for a reduced ratio of 1.6:1. that is not going to be enough if the knicks are to become a .500 ballclub and make the playoffs.

he has had a couple of bad "old melo" games sprinkled throughout the fifteen games, basically him getting into a playground pissing contest with douchebags like dwyane wade. but when he has played like he has bought in he has been superb. what we need is a majority of games where he plays like that, where his usage is around 28% and his assist rate is around 20-22%

like i said, the success of the season depends a lot on how much melo can maintain his focus, keep his game both tight and generous.

I'm not litigating Melo's passing. The simple question is, is Melo facilitating statistically significantly any different now (good or bad) than it has been during the course of his Knicks career;

as i said it's too small a sample size but i hope he is trending in that direction. most of his career he has hovered in the 2:1 or even 2.5:1 ratio. this year he is so far at an okay 1.6:1. his 55-game strike shortened season he was 1.5:1 but that seems to have been an aberration for his career, a statistical anomaly. that was the season d'antoni resigned and linsanity saved the season. his usage and assist rates were all over the place that season, and this season he has also been erratic.

if he can get that ratio to 1.4:1 like jordan and bryant were able to do that would should translate to team success.

short answer is he seems to be trending to more facilitating but "seems" is a weak assertion. maybe the more attention kp gets the less facilitating he will do. i hope i am wrong.

We seem to somehow be circling what I'm asking. I'm not asking about Melo's career, I'm asking about his Knicks career, and I'll go as so far as to toss out the strike-shortened year.

Is there statistical evidence to suggest this year's Melo is any different from the Melo of prior two season, understood this year is very early.

As to you erratic point, I'd also ask if that is any different than normal? Not all NBA players out up their averages consistently.

Take Porzingis just to illustrate a point. He gets and deserves credit for his blocks average, but the 7 block game certainly affected it.

My hypothesis is, you can likely go back into Melo's previous two seasons here and find the same 'erratic' swings that make up his averages, but I'm open and would appreciate being factually corrected if warranted.

dk7th wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

dk7th wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

dk7th wrote:raw assist numbers don't reveal facilitating, especially when they're so few per game for an erstwhile "scorer".

loo at his usage rate compared with his assist rate. that is a better measure of player's role in an offense and the level of potential selfishness.

3.6 in 55 games yes, AND his usage to assist was 31.8 to 21 for a reduced ratio of 1.5:1 which is better than ok but not really enough.

3.1 assists in the 54-28 campaign with an astronomical 35.6 and a paltry 14.1 for an absurd 2.52:1 ratio, and this ratio was one of the reasons why it was a fool's gold campaign-- melo was only as good as the orchestrators he had and never bothered to do any facilitating himself.

the following season is more of the same except with only 37 wins and without an orchestrator and melo not doing any facilitating, their implosion was predictable.

last season? not worth revisiting in my opinion.

this season: too small a sample size to come to a conclusion. right now it's 30.1 to 18.7 for a reduced ratio of 1.6:1. that is not going to be enough if the knicks are to become a .500 ballclub and make the playoffs.

he has had a couple of bad "old melo" games sprinkled throughout the fifteen games, basically him getting into a playground pissing contest with douchebags like dwyane wade. but when he has played like he has bought in he has been superb. what we need is a majority of games where he plays like that, where his usage is around 28% and his assist rate is around 20-22%

like i said, the success of the season depends a lot on how much melo can maintain his focus, keep his game both tight and generous.

I'm not litigating Melo's passing. The simple question is, is Melo facilitating statistically significantly any different now (good or bad) than it has been during the course of his Knicks career;

as i said it's too small a sample size but i hope he is trending in that direction. most of his career he has hovered in the 2:1 or even 2.5:1 ratio. this year he is so far at an okay 1.6:1. his 55-game strike shortened season he was 1.5:1 but that seems to have been an aberration for his career, a statistical anomaly. that was the season d'antoni resigned and linsanity saved the season. his usage and assist rates were all over the place that season, and this season he has also been erratic.

if he can get that ratio to 1.4:1 like jordan and bryant were able to do that would should translate to team success.

short answer is he seems to be trending to more facilitating but "seems" is a weak assertion. maybe the more attention kp gets the less facilitating he will do. i hope i am wrong.

We seem to somehow be circling what I'm asking. I'm not asking about Melo's career, I'm asking about his Knicks career, and I'll go as so far as to toss out the strike-shortened year.

Is there statistical evidence to suggest this year's Melo is any different from the Melo of prior two season, understood this year is very early.

As to you erratic point, I'd also ask if that is any different than normal? Not all NBA players out up their averages consistently.

Take Porzingis just to illustrate a point. He gets and deserves credit for his blocks average, but the 7 block game certainly affected it.

My hypothesis is, you can likely go back into Melo's previous two seasons here and find the same 'erratic' swings that make up his averages, but I'm open and would appreciate being factually corrected if warranted.

he is trending to less selfish over his career as a knick.

look at his usage rates and his assist rates for evidence: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

scroll down to "advanced" and focus on the usg% column compared with the ast% column and study the ratios.

Thank you for the link. Appreciated.