mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Not trying to rip Lopez--dude is what he is, man. He's a pretty heady player who's trying out there and I respect the effort...but the fact of the matter is Greg Monroe is a better player than Robin Lopez. Lopez is a slight step up from Cole Aldrich (and that's debatable). Greg Monroe is a legit offensive presence on the interior and I think he's a better rebounder than Lopez too. Lopez isn't capable of 15/10 minimum (maybe closer to 20/10 if given enough shot-attempts and mins.) like Monroe is. And what was Monroe's reduced max again? $16mm a season, somewhere around there right? Man, for the $2.5-3mm more a year we could've gotten a much better player. Oh well. If Monroe truly didn't want to play here, OK, nothing we can do about that but if we really didn't offer this man the max (again, a reduced max) and we never bothered to tell him why and our thinking on the matter (did we plan on using the money to get another good player like an Afflalo or D-Will--at least that's a good reason) then Phil's nuts. Simple as that. I know the Knicks have said they offered the max and his agent said so but part of me still feels like we may not have. I dunno--it was the 1st thing reported and where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

weak post man! You completely ignored every part of the game other than offense.

Monroe is an horrendous defender.

Did you watch the game yesterday?

Weak my ass. You're weak!! And yes I did watch the game yesterday!! Lopez was good yesterday. I actually gave him credit for his effort and being fairly heady out there so far.. Have you watched Robin Lopez play all season though? Monroe play for the Pistons? Monroe the handful of games so far for the Bucks?? Greg Monroe > Robin Lopez. Case closed...And you know what, pal -- offense is a critical part of the game. If you don't put the ball in the hole more than your opponent, you don't win. You're damn right I'm concerned about the offense esp. during this whole swoon we've been in the past few games. Lopez stepped up yesterday and so did Galloway and we BARELY squeaked out a win on our home floor. We played terribly again yesterday overall.

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm very glad to see Lopez have a strong game. This is the guy we paid for.

Oh my, how the importance of sample size has changed.

gunsnewing wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

WaltLongmire wrote:Monroe will put up his 16/11 type numbers with nice passing, sub-par D and minimal shot blocking.

I could make a case that I'd rather have him than Lopez, but I wasn't exactly shattered when we didn't get him.

We also have KOQ and Lopez for almost the same amount of $$ that Monroe cost...no doubt we have a better team because of this situation than we would have had with just Monroe.

You know what Walt, having said my peace just now, that's a good way of looking at it. Lopez + KOQ vs. just Monroe might very well turn out to be a wash, maybe we even make out better here in the long run. That's a good way of looking at it I guess -- it'd be nice to put KOQ in a position where we can get a little more out of him, though. I know KP playing well affects O'Quinn's PT but still, gotta find a way to get more out of him somehow, maybe at the expense of Lopez. KP/O'quinn is a tandem we might want to see a little more of..

My main criticism of Lopez that I didn't really know, not having seen him play regularly before we picked him up--he's giving effort but is it me or does he look extraordinarily SLOW out there? Everything he does is SLOW--his pursuit of rebounds, his holding the ball on offense (granted this may not be his fault though--guys need to cut more and get themselves open--and Lopez isn't really turning it over here, so that's good) and his offensive moves are not only awkward but it takes him FOREVER to get his shots off. That's what will continue to hold this guy back imo--he's just slow reacting to everything around him it seems.

He's slow, prodding & lumbering. Shouldn't be a surprise to us. We've been watching his twin brother play down the dial for the past what 8yrs? And Brook is the talented brother. Again I'd have no issue with what Lopez brings if we paid him $8-9mil which is extremely generous for a role player/borderline starter as opposed to $14mil. It is what it is. Just got to hope he has more games like yesterday than ineffective duds

I will take rolo over brook slopez

blkexec wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm very glad to see Lopez have a strong game. This is the guy we paid for.

Oh my, how the importance of sample size has changed.

I'm assuming during his next bad game, the same guys will say, "This is why Lopez is over paid".

Can't look into stats for a conclusion, with such a small sample size.

It also should not be about stats. Who cares how many points he scores or who got the boards? If the team out rebounds the other team I am happy. If he took smart and efficient shots, I'm happy. If he played solid defense and qb'd the defense to a win, I am happy.

Steve Nash scored what? 15-16 points a game? Who the hell cares about points.

Finestrg wrote:Not trying to rip Lopez--dude is what he is, man. He's a pretty heady player who's trying out there and I respect the effort...but the fact of the matter is Greg Monroe is a better player than Robin Lopez. Lopez is a slight step up from Cole Aldrich (and that's debatable). Greg Monroe is a legit offensive presence on the interior and I think he's a better rebounder than Lopez too. Lopez isn't capable of 15/10 minimum (maybe closer to 20/10 if given enough shot-attempts and mins.) like Monroe is. And what was Monroe's reduced max again? $16mm a season, somewhere around there right? Man, for the $2.5-3mm more a year we could've gotten a much better player. Oh well. If Monroe truly didn't want to play here, OK, nothing we can do about that but if we really didn't offer this man the max (again, a reduced max) and we never bothered to tell him why and our thinking on the matter (did we plan on using the money to get another good player like an Afflalo or D-Will--at least that's a good reason) then Phil's nuts. Simple as that. I know the Knicks have said they offered the max and his agent said so but part of me still feels like we may not have. I dunno--it was the 1st thing reported and where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

you lost me at Cole Aldrich comparison. That's a joke

blkexec wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'm very glad to see Lopez have a strong game. This is the guy we paid for.

Oh my, how the importance of sample size has changed.

I'm assuming during his next bad game, the same guys will say, "This is why Lopez is over paid".

Can't look into stats for a conclusion, with such a small sample size.

Finestrg wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Not trying to rip Lopez--dude is what he is, man. He's a pretty heady player who's trying out there and I respect the effort...but the fact of the matter is Greg Monroe is a better player than Robin Lopez. Lopez is a slight step up from Cole Aldrich (and that's debatable). Greg Monroe is a legit offensive presence on the interior and I think he's a better rebounder than Lopez too. Lopez isn't capable of 15/10 minimum (maybe closer to 20/10 if given enough shot-attempts and mins.) like Monroe is. And what was Monroe's reduced max again? $16mm a season, somewhere around there right? Man, for the $2.5-3mm more a year we could've gotten a much better player. Oh well. If Monroe truly didn't want to play here, OK, nothing we can do about that but if we really didn't offer this man the max (again, a reduced max) and we never bothered to tell him why and our thinking on the matter (did we plan on using the money to get another good player like an Afflalo or D-Will--at least that's a good reason) then Phil's nuts. Simple as that. I know the Knicks have said they offered the max and his agent said so but part of me still feels like we may not have. I dunno--it was the 1st thing reported and where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

weak post man! You completely ignored every part of the game other than offense.

Monroe is an horrendous defender.

Did you watch the game yesterday?

Weak my ass. You're weak!! And yes I did watch the game yesterday!! Lopez was good yesterday. I actually gave him credit for his effort and being fairly heady out there so far.. Have you watched Robin Lopez play all season though? Monroe play for the Pistons? Monroe the handful of games so far for the Bucks?? Greg Monroe > Robin Lopez. Case closed...And you know what, pal -- offense is a critical part of the game. If you don't put the ball in the hole more than your opponent, you don't win. You're damn right I'm concerned about the offense esp. during this whole swoon we've been in the past few games. Lopez stepped up yesterday and so did Galloway and we BARELY squeaked out a win on our home floor. We played terribly again yesterday overall.

You replied to mreinman and didn't mention anything about Monroe's defense... again.

Smh..Ok, Marty. This one's for you, sire, since you love being snarky with me all the time when you do choose to engage me for whatever reason:

(1) I'll say it again with complete conviction -- ability-wise, to me, there's not that much difference between Cole Aldrich and Robin Lopez. I said it, I said it again and I stand by it. Certainly not a $12.5mm difference/year in salary or whatever the hell it is. How is that a joke?!? What's Lopez that much better at than Cole? Tell me! To me, they're very similar -- both the same age, about the same size, Cole might be even quicker (not say too much though--they're both not know for their quickness), about equal shot-blocking presence (something Cole was known for and excelled at in college--I might even take Cole here), similar offense players (both aren't great, both look slightly awkward on the offense end), both are even good FT shooters surprisingly. The similarities are uncanny, more than I originally though in fact. Robin Lopez has gotten a legit chance to play in the NBA, Cole Aldrich really hasn't. That's the main difference I can see. Give Cole Aldrich 27 mins a game--I bet he could put up 10 and 5 with a block a game (he's never gotten anything close to that. Let me ask you--when he got extra burn here, did he play well? We had posts upon posts here talking about how he should be playing more, esp. his 1st yr here)..If you see it differently, cool. Let's talk about it with getting snide with each other. This is how I see it and that's not mimicking anyone else's ideas mind you (there's your joke)--those are my thoughts 100%, just like everything I choose to share on this board.

The entirety of the NBA disagrees with you on the Cole-Rolo comparison, otherwise Cole wouldn't be cut, signed, and minimalized to 14th man, 3rd string backup. I've never seen a player with a negative PER, he's got it this year so far.

Finestrg wrote:(2) Do you honestly think I don't fully understand that Greg Monroe's not some great defender? Come on, man. Frankly, I don't care too much about it, to be perfectly honest. Some players, you look to get different things out of--for this dude Monroe, it's interior scoring and rebounding, and you know what--he's pretty damn good in both areas (borderline all-star level in both areas), better than anything Robin Lopez excels at.. Again, my opinion, but I'll personally take that to the bank. I'm intrigued by GM's offense, the impact he can have on a game offensively. If other people don't care about points, great, good for them. I want a few reliable offensive players on this team that we can turn to for some points. If you don't have that, you're dead in the water. That's what I think about with Greg Monroe, not the fact that he's not some great defender, OK? I mean you're taking me to task again on something so there it is soup to nuts so there's no confusion. Now Walt brings up good food for thought basically saying, "well, it's really Lopez + KOQ vs. Monroe." OK, I'll go along with that. But you can also say how 'bout Greg Monroe/Cole Aldrich vs. Lopez/O'Quinn, right?

And I choose not to respond to reinman any further because he was rude and discourteous, a few times now, and I just don't have time for that **** anymore from the few bad eggs in the carton around here.

Substitute the word "Defense" for "Offense" and "Rolo" for "Monroe" and you can almost make the same argument as above.

I've never seen someone only want to care about one side of the court, that's a crazy argument.

Seriously, I don't think mreinman or I were trying to be snarky or rude or whatever.

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

martin wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Not trying to rip Lopez--dude is what he is, man. He's a pretty heady player who's trying out there and I respect the effort...but the fact of the matter is Greg Monroe is a better player than Robin Lopez. Lopez is a slight step up from Cole Aldrich (and that's debatable). Greg Monroe is a legit offensive presence on the interior and I think he's a better rebounder than Lopez too. Lopez isn't capable of 15/10 minimum (maybe closer to 20/10 if given enough shot-attempts and mins.) like Monroe is. And what was Monroe's reduced max again? $16mm a season, somewhere around there right? Man, for the $2.5-3mm more a year we could've gotten a much better player. Oh well. If Monroe truly didn't want to play here, OK, nothing we can do about that but if we really didn't offer this man the max (again, a reduced max) and we never bothered to tell him why and our thinking on the matter (did we plan on using the money to get another good player like an Afflalo or D-Will--at least that's a good reason) then Phil's nuts. Simple as that. I know the Knicks have said they offered the max and his agent said so but part of me still feels like we may not have. I dunno--it was the 1st thing reported and where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

weak post man! You completely ignored every part of the game other than offense.

Monroe is an horrendous defender.

Did you watch the game yesterday?

Weak my ass. You're weak!! And yes I did watch the game yesterday!! Lopez was good yesterday. I actually gave him credit for his effort and being fairly heady out there so far.. Have you watched Robin Lopez play all season though? Monroe play for the Pistons? Monroe the handful of games so far for the Bucks?? Greg Monroe > Robin Lopez. Case closed...And you know what, pal -- offense is a critical part of the game. If you don't put the ball in the hole more than your opponent, you don't win. You're damn right I'm concerned about the offense esp. during this whole swoon we've been in the past few games. Lopez stepped up yesterday and so did Galloway and we BARELY squeaked out a win on our home floor. We played terribly again yesterday overall.

You replied to mreinman and didn't mention anything about Monroe's defense... again.

Smh..Ok, Marty. This one's for you, sire, since you love being snarky with me all the time when you do choose to engage me for whatever reason:

(1) I'll say it again with complete conviction -- ability-wise, to me, there's not that much difference between Cole Aldrich and Robin Lopez. I said it, I said it again and I stand by it. Certainly not a $12.5mm difference/year in salary or whatever the hell it is. How is that a joke?!? What's Lopez that much better at than Cole? Tell me! To me, they're very similar -- both the same age, about the same size, Cole might be even quicker (not say too much though--they're both not know for their quickness), about equal shot-blocking presence (something Cole was known for and excelled at in college--I might even take Cole here), similar offense players (both aren't great, both look slightly awkward on the offense end), both are even good FT shooters surprisingly. The similarities are uncanny, more than I originally though in fact. Robin Lopez has gotten a legit chance to play in the NBA, Cole Aldrich really hasn't. That's the main difference I can see. Give Cole Aldrich 27 mins a game--I bet he could put up 10 and 5 with a block a game (he's never gotten anything close to that. Let me ask you--when he got extra burn here, did he play well? We had posts upon posts here talking about how he should be playing more, esp. his 1st yr here)..If you see it differently, cool. Let's talk about it with getting snide with each other. This is how I see it and that's not mimicking anyone else's ideas mind you (there's your joke)--those are my thoughts 100%, just like everything I choose to share on this board.

The entirety of the NBA disagrees with you on the Cole-Rolo comparison, otherwise Cole wouldn't be cut, signed, and minimalized to 14th man, 3rd string backup. I've never seen a player with a negative PER, he's got it this year so far.

Finestrg wrote:(2) Do you honestly think I don't fully understand that Greg Monroe's not some great defender? Come on, man. Frankly, I don't care too much about it, to be perfectly honest. Some players, you look to get different things out of--for this dude Monroe, it's interior scoring and rebounding, and you know what--he's pretty damn good in both areas (borderline all-star level in both areas), better than anything Robin Lopez excels at.. Again, my opinion, but I'll personally take that to the bank. I'm intrigued by GM's offense, the impact he can have on a game offensively. If other people don't care about points, great, good for them. I want a few reliable offensive players on this team that we can turn to for some points. If you don't have that, you're dead in the water. That's what I think about with Greg Monroe, not the fact that he's not some great defender, OK? I mean you're taking me to task again on something so there it is soup to nuts so there's no confusion. Now Walt brings up good food for thought basically saying, "well, it's really Lopez + KOQ vs. Monroe." OK, I'll go along with that. But you can also say how 'bout Greg Monroe/Cole Aldrich vs. Lopez/O'Quinn, right?

And I choose not to respond to reinman any further because he was rude and discourteous, a few times now, and I just don't have time for that **** anymore from the few bad eggs in the carton around here.

Substitute the word "Defense" for "Offense" and "Rolo" for "Monroe" and you can almost make the same argument as above.

I've never seen someone only want to care about one side of the court, that's a crazy argument.

Seriously, I don't think mreinman or I were trying to be snarky or rude or whatever.

Who the heck is saying I only care about one side of the court?? I never said that. I thought we were talking about a player comparison between two specific players, Greg Monroe vs. Robin Lopez?? Stop putting words in my mouth, Ok? When did I ever talk about minimizing defense? I've advocating adding plenty of defensive-minded players in the past. Recent past in fact -- Jordan Bachynski, Jeff Withey in the middle, Thanasis Antetokounmpo out on the wing...And no, imo, you CAN'T make the same argument. My point was that Greg Monroe's key strengths outweigh Robin Lopez's strengths. I thought I made that clear. Fact of the matter is I've made my position crystal clear--you're arguing just to argue..Again, I'd rather have GM's almost all-star level interior scoring and rebounding over what Robin Lopez brings to the table (and no offense to Lopez btw--he's a Knick, plays for my team. I'm not trying to give him a hard time. Just being objective). And I guess "the entirety of the NBA" agrees with that statement -- Lopez was reportedly offered the max by the Knicks and was offered and eventually given the max by the Bucks (and my guess--if he had a higher max ceiling, some team would've went even higher than the $16mm a year or whatever he got). Lopez wasn't given a max contract and I'd be willing to bet we overpaid by a good margin just to get him so we wouldn't have had to come away from FA completely empty-handed.

Cole with a negative PER this year? Huh?? What are you basing that on? The 3.2 mins per game he's getting?? Don't just rely on pure statistics to make your argument. What do your eyes and gut tell you about a Cole/Robin Lopez comparison?

And seriously, ah yeah, you were both rude. It's always been esp. surprising coming from you, the moderator, but whatever. It is what it is. That's Ok, it's what I expect from you now..."Weak post," "mimicking of others ideas" (that's a hot one, wow), "that's a joke"...Just not the way I choose to talk to people unless provoked.