CrushAlot wrote:^^^check the first page of the thread. I said it there. Pretty sure newyorknewyork pointed it out to you as well.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:^^^check the first page of the thread. I said it there. Pretty sure newyorknewyork pointed it out to you as well.

personally i dont think the kid do anything wrong. I dont think the knicks did anything wrong either. It really wasnt a big deal. I mean it was a few years back too so why dwell on it?

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Not saying he had to but there ate two sides. And Lin had more control while Knicks had less the you believe.

yeah, because they offered no contract at all. The control was 100% in the knicks hands.

The control the Knicks had was in there ability to match offers. Not in there ability to offer the most money. Any team in FA with cap space could offer more money then the Knicks. Lin's agent knew this just as well as us Knicks fans knew this. Knicks offer Lin a contract he had the power to reject it or wait and see what other teams offer then compare the best deal. So contol in terms of signing Lin before FA, no Lin had the control to test FA if he so choose.

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Not saying he had to but there ate two sides. And Lin had more control while Knicks had less the you believe.

yeah, because they offered no contract at all. The control was 100% in the knicks hands.

The control the Knicks had was in there ability to match offers. Not in there ability to offer the most money. Any team in FA with cap space could offer more money then the Knicks. Lin's agent knew this just as well as us Knicks fans knew this. Knicks offer Lin a contract he had the power to reject it or wait and see what other teams offer then compare the best deal. So contol in terms of signing Lin before FA, no Lin had the control to test FA if he so choose.

neither situation happened.

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Not saying he had to but there ate two sides. And Lin had more control while Knicks had less the you believe.

yeah, because they offered no contract at all. The control was 100% in the knicks hands.

The control the Knicks had was in there ability to match offers. Not in there ability to offer the most money. Any team in FA with cap space could offer more money then the Knicks. Lin's agent knew this just as well as us Knicks fans knew this. Knicks offer Lin a contract he had the power to reject it or wait and see what other teams offer then compare the best deal. So contol in terms of signing Lin before FA, no Lin had the control to test FA if he so choose.

The could have offered a contract as early as July 1....they didnt. The Knicks had the right to match...end of story.

neither situation happened.

Wrong yet again..

Why didn’t the Knicks simply outbid the Rockets, or lock up Lin sooner?
A.

They couldn’t. The Knicks were not permitted to give Lin an extension during the season. They had to wait for him to become a restricted free agent on July 1. Even then, they were constrained by the N.B.A.’s arcane cap rules. The most they could offer was $28.75 million over five years, or — to compare apples to apples — $16.13 million over three years. Only a rival team with cap room could give Lin the balloon payment. Again, for Lin to maximize his value, he had to play the market. Also, no contracts could be signed from July 1-10, so the Knicks had to wait while Lin tested the market.

knickscity wrote:Why didn’t the Knicks simply outbid the Rockets, or lock up Lin sooner?
A.

They couldn’t. The Knicks were not permitted to give Lin an extension during the season. They had to wait for him to become a restricted free agent on July 1. Even then, they were constrained by the N.B.A.’s arcane cap rules. The most they could offer was $28.75 million over five years, or — to compare apples to apples — $16.13 million over three years. Only a rival team with cap room could give Lin the balloon payment. Again, for Lin to maximize his value, he had to play the market. Also, no contracts could be signed from July 1-10, so the Knicks had to wait while Lin tested the market.

This is false....knicks couldnt offer a 5 year deal, and certainly could have offered a deal to Lin on July 1. Nice try though...lol.

hahahaha..I knew you would pull a dk7th on me....hahaha..Ignore facts via the NYTimes blogg and offer it's wrong with no evidence...Great move...

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The quote where he said they chose not to resign me oissed me off. The Knicks were going to match the original deal offered to Lin but couldn't match the poison pill deal. I really liked Lin as a knick but he needs to take some ownership for chasing the money. He got paid but he owned ny and his career probably would have had a different path had he not put the Knicks in a position where matching his offer was almost financially not possuble. the aw shucks its all good I just want to get back to linsanity isn't cutting it anymore in my opinion.

Revisionist's history. He must be a Republican.

Really? You don't think Lin went for the money? I have said this since that July by the way.

its not fair to bash lin for chasing the money because EVERY player chases the money. Lets be honest melo is a knick because we could offer him much more than anyone otherwise he would have went to chicago. LINSANITY was probably the best time we have had as knick fans since 2000

I agree. It is a business for these guys. But one guy chasing money is no different from another guy doing it. Right after Lin hired his new agent to negotiate that contract the agent came out and said it wasn't a done deal that Lin would return to NY.

sure it is:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/jeremy-lin/cash-earnings/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/carmelo-anthony/cash-earnings/

lets make an educated guess on what your thinking: you want to somehow exonerate carmelo anthony's greed by showing us what you think is jeremy lin's greed....

Guys get paid their value. If your deal is so bad that a first round pick has to be included to move it then that player was overpaid. If you have a brief but spectacular run before your first free agency you might be able to turn that into getting overpaid on your contract. If you can't retain your starting position you will get paid back up money on your next deal. If you are one of the top players on the planet for a sustained number of years you get paid accordingly.

no they don't. they should but they don't. as many dopes have stated around here: what the market will bear dictates a player's value, and that means it is an emotion-driven decision, with rational evaluation taking a backseat. dolan is an irrational, emotion-driven owner with deep pockets. his perceived being show up is what drove lin away. he overpaid for stoudemire when he had cap room, he overpaid for melo when he could have stayed out of walsh's way, and he finally drew the line with lin. it's NEVER a business decision with dolan. it's a game.

this phenomenon, mixed with a player's notorious money-first agenda, is what makes for a situation like the knicks have had.

as to what has happened since lin left, he went to houston when houston was slotting him as the point guard, and just a short while later the rockets got harden. end of story there. then in la he had to play with bryant, which is essentially an untenable situation. and with the knicks you had melo, who is very similar in terms of needing to have the ball in his hands, essentially making lin.

essentially three different teams with three eerily similar situations.

Bryant didn't play for half the season and the Rockets were so unaware of what they had that they needed to send out a first round pick with Lin to move him. It does sound like he is in a better situation for himself in Charlotte.

as soon as harden was signed it made lin expendable. the rockets could not have foreseen harden coming to houston. like any good poker player, the rockets were willing to muck their hand in pursuit of better hands... which history has shown they did.

as to new york, a couple of minor details have been left out: they won with lin spearheading d'antoni ball and melo out of the picture. melo returns and things go south. d'antoni then says "it's melo or me." d'antoni is gone, and woodson installs the only offense-- offensive offense-- he knows. "billion dollar" matching... all hot air. heck, woodson was lukewarm about lin all along. melo had zero interest in working with lin. he could have said "they need to pay him because he is great for the knicks." but no... it's a "ridiculous contract."

yellowboy90 wrote:Regarding Houston, Didn't they just bring in a ball dominant pg to pair with Harden? It's not like Lawson is a good defensive player. Why didn't they just bring Lin back on the cheap?

they have beverly to pair with harden they must have brought in lawson as a backup, alcohol issues notwithstanding.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Sangfroid wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The quote where he said they chose not to resign me oissed me off. The Knicks were going to match the original deal offered to Lin but couldn't match the poison pill deal. I really liked Lin as a knick but he needs to take some ownership for chasing the money. He got paid but he owned ny and his career probably would have had a different path had he not put the Knicks in a position where matching his offer was almost financially not possuble. the aw shucks its all good I just want to get back to linsanity isn't cutting it anymore in my opinion.

Revisionist's history. He must be a Republican.

Really? You don't think Lin went for the money? I have said this since that July by the way.

its not fair to bash lin for chasing the money because EVERY player chases the money. Lets be honest melo is a knick because we could offer him much more than anyone otherwise he would have went to chicago. LINSANITY was probably the best time we have had as knick fans since 2000

I agree. It is a business for these guys. But one guy chasing money is no different from another guy doing it. Right after Lin hired his new agent to negotiate that contract the agent came out and said it wasn't a done deal that Lin would return to NY.

sure it is:

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/jeremy-lin/cash-earnings/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-knicks/carmelo-anthony/cash-earnings/

lets make an educated guess on what your thinking: you want to somehow exonerate carmelo anthony's greed by showing us what you think is jeremy lin's greed....

Guys get paid their value. If your deal is so bad that a first round pick has to be included to move it then that player was overpaid. If you have a brief but spectacular run before your first free agency you might be able to turn that into getting overpaid on your contract. If you can't retain your starting position you will get paid back up money on your next deal. If you are one of the top players on the planet for a sustained number of years you get paid accordingly.

no they don't. they should but they don't. as many dopes have stated around here: what the market will bear dictates a player's value, and that means it is an emotion-driven decision, with rational evaluation taking a backseat. dolan is an irrational, emotion-driven owner with deep pockets. his perceived being show up is what drove lin away. he overpaid for stoudemire when he had cap room, he overpaid for melo when he could have stayed out of walsh's way, and he finally drew the line with lin. it's NEVER a business decision with dolan. it's a game.

this phenomenon, mixed with a player's notorious money-first agenda, is what makes for a situation like the knicks have had.

as to what has happened since lin left, he went to houston when houston was slotting him as the point guard, and just a short while later the rockets got harden. end of story there. then in la he had to play with bryant, which is essentially an untenable situation. and with the knicks you had melo, who is very similar in terms of needing to have the ball in his hands, essentially making lin.

essentially three different teams with three eerily similar situations.

Bryant didn't play for half the season and the Rockets were so unaware of what they had that they needed to send out a first round pick with Lin to move him. It does sound like he is in a better situation for himself in Charlotte.

as soon as harden was signed it made lin expendable. the rockets could not have foreseen harden coming to houston. like any good poker player, the rockets were willing to muck their hand in pursuit of better hands... which history has shown they did.

as to new york, a couple of minor details have been left out: they won with lin spearheading d'antoni ball and melo out of the picture. melo returns and things go south. d'antoni then says "it's melo or me." d'antoni is gone, and woodson installs the only offense-- offensive offense-- he knows. "billion dollar" matching... all hot air. heck, woodson was lukewarm about lin all along. melo had zero interest in working with lin. he could have said "they need to pay him because he is great for the knicks." but no... it's a "ridiculous contract."

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Not saying he had to but there ate two sides. And Lin had more control while Knicks had less the you believe.

yeah, because they offered no contract at all. The control was 100% in the knicks hands.

The control the Knicks had was in there ability to match offers. Not in there ability to offer the most money. Any team in FA with cap space could offer more money then the Knicks. Lin's agent knew this just as well as us Knicks fans knew this. Knicks offer Lin a contract he had the power to reject it or wait and see what other teams offer then compare the best deal. So contol in terms of signing Lin before FA, no Lin had the control to test FA if he so choose.

The could have offered a contract as early as July 1....they didnt. The Knicks had the right to match...end of story.

neither situation happened.

This is true, the problem is none of this proves that the Knicks werent interested in bringing Lin back from the rip.

Sure it does...offer the deal you can, and lock him up. There's plenty of teams that offer their RFA's contracts immediately before they hit the market. Knicks could have done the same...it's the same CBA.

He has to be Willing to sign that offer in order to lock him up. There is no evidence of him being willing to do so and choose to take less without seeing what the market had to offer. Lin's agent knew the max the Knicks could offer. Was there an offer from Lin's side to the Knicks that gives any indication that he was willing to sign for less?

But here are a few words from Lin himself, whether you believe is your right....

"Honestly, I preferred New York," Lin told Sports Illustrated. "But my main goal in free agency was to go to a team that had plans for me and wanted me. I wanted to have fun playing basketball. ... Now I'm definitely relieved."

Lin's comments shed light on the Knicks decision not to match his offer from Houston and the process that led to it.

A team source told ESPNNewYork.com earlier this week that the third year of the Rockets' offer -- worth $14.8 million -- caused the Knicks to consider letting Lin go. If the Knicks matched the offer, they would have been subject to a luxury tax in the third year, potentially bringing their total out-of-pocket cost for Lin to about $43 million in 2014-15.

The Rockets' offer to Lin will pay him $5 million in the first year, $5.225 million in the second and $14.8 million in the third, according to sources.

Lin told Sports Illustrated that he'd never considered the idea that the Knicks wouldn't match his offer until the team traded for point guard Raymond Felton last Saturday, confirming what a source told ESPNNewYork.com on Tuesday.

Lin had been given several assurances that he'd be back in New York prior to the Felton trade.

In late June, the 23-year-old had dinner with Knicks coach Mike Woodson in Los Angeles to talk about his future with the club.

"Woodson was saying, 'You're going to be a starter, you're going to be a big part of the team,'" Lin said. "I came away really excited."

"Felton's signing was the first time when I thought, 'Oh, wow, I might not be a Knick,'" Lin added.

That became a reality late Tuesday night, when the Knicks officially announced that they'd be letting Lin walk, confirming what ESPN's Stephen A. Smith had reported over the weekend that New York had no plans to match the offer.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/nba/story/_/id/8177587/jeremy-lin-says-interview-preferred-stay-newyork-knicks

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knickscity wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Not saying he had to but there ate two sides. And Lin had more control while Knicks had less the you believe.

yeah, because they offered no contract at all. The control was 100% in the knicks hands.

The control the Knicks had was in there ability to match offers. Not in there ability to offer the most money. Any team in FA with cap space could offer more money then the Knicks. Lin's agent knew this just as well as us Knicks fans knew this. Knicks offer Lin a contract he had the power to reject it or wait and see what other teams offer then compare the best deal. So contol in terms of signing Lin before FA, no Lin had the control to test FA if he so choose.

The could have offered a contract as early as July 1....they didnt. The Knicks had the right to match...end of story.

neither situation happened.

This is true, the problem is none of this proves that the Knicks werent interested in bringing Lin back from the rip.

Sure it does...offer the deal you can, and lock him up. There's plenty of teams that offer their RFA's contracts immediately before they hit the market. Knicks could have done the same...it's the same CBA.

He has to be Willing to sign that offer in order to lock him up. There is no evidence of him being willing to do so and choose to take less without seeing what the market had to offer. Lin's agent knew the max the Knicks could offer. Was there an offer from Lin's side to the Knicks that gives any indication that he was willing to sign for less?

Cant sign what isnt offered. Only way to know is to offer the deal, which the Knicks did not.

But here are a few words from Lin himself, whether you believe is your right....

"Honestly, I preferred New York," Lin told Sports Illustrated. "But my main goal in free agency was to go to a team that had plans for me and wanted me. I wanted to have fun playing basketball. ... Now I'm definitely relieved."

Lin's comments shed light on the Knicks decision not to match his offer from Houston and the process that led to it.

A team source told ESPNNewYork.com earlier this week that the third year of the Rockets' offer -- worth $14.8 million -- caused the Knicks to consider letting Lin go. If the Knicks matched the offer, they would have been subject to a luxury tax in the third year, potentially bringing their total out-of-pocket cost for Lin to about $43 million in 2014-15.

The Rockets' offer to Lin will pay him $5 million in the first year, $5.225 million in the second and $14.8 million in the third, according to sources.

Lin told Sports Illustrated that he'd never considered the idea that the Knicks wouldn't match his offer until the team traded for point guard Raymond Felton last Saturday, confirming what a source told ESPNNewYork.com on Tuesday.

Lin had been given several assurances that he'd be back in New York prior to the Felton trade.

In late June, the 23-year-old had dinner with Knicks coach Mike Woodson in Los Angeles to talk about his future with the club.

"Woodson was saying, 'You're going to be a starter, you're going to be a big part of the team,'" Lin said. "I came away really excited."

"Felton's signing was the first time when I thought, 'Oh, wow, I might not be a Knick,'" Lin added.

That became a reality late Tuesday night, when the Knicks officially announced that they'd be letting Lin walk, confirming what ESPN's Stephen A. Smith had reported over the weekend that New York had no plans to match the offer.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/nba/story/_/id/8177587/jeremy-lin-says-interview-preferred-stay-newyork-knicks

These comments are after the fact and they all poi t to the Knicks losing interest after the 2nd co tract offer.

Knicks offering Lin a contract right away would be them bidding against themselves for an unknown. Just like the Greg Monroe situation last season teams know that a team could match an offer would possibly scare teams away from offering.

What actions has Lin shown that show him initiate anything to resign with the Knicks for less for that matter. I don't remember Knicks turning down any meetings from Lin's agent.